New Alpkit Bikepacking Bags

[Boab]

Announced via an email this morning - https://alpkit.com/pages/new-standard-in-bikepacking

[RIP]

Mmm, got that too. There's now even a special bag to keep gr@vel in! https://alpkit.com/products/gravel-handlebar-bag. Maybe that's so you can take your own gr@vel along on a trip and spread it around you on the trail if you get a sudden attack of gr@velw@nker that needs curing? The cradle for the removable gastank is quite interesting.

[UnderTheRadars]

Saw them yesterday, unsure why they don’t offer the fuel pod (and now cradle) with fitting for frame bolts that are appearing on a lot of bikes.

[johnnystorm]

Saw them yesterday, unsure why they don’t offer the fuel pod (and now cradle) with fitting for frame bolts that are appearing on a lot of bikes.

Firstly I guess it's because making a hole yourself isn't too much trouble and secondly the bolt "standards". For example, I have a Salsa Cutthroat and I had to make new holes in the bottom of my Salsa bolt on bag so that it fitted properly.

Regarding Alpkit's new bags, the gravel bag looks pretty good for the money although I'm not keen on straps on headtubes unless it's a Ti bike. I could probably use my dr.jon strapdeck to hold it off the headtube. Certainly better value than the oversized pencil cases that seem to cost £60+

[TheBrownDog]

Really like the look of those smaller Enduro seat pack/harness combos. Just the thing for day rides and coaching sessions. The regular size looks big enough for tools and a first aid kit. Maybe.

[faustus]

Saw them yesterday, unsure why they don’t offer the fuel pod (and now cradle) with fitting for frame bolts that are appearing on a lot of bikes.

Firstly I guess it's because making a hole yourself isn't too much trouble and secondly the bolt "standards". For example, I have a Salsa Cutthroat and I had to make new holes in the bottom of my Salsa bolt on bag so that it fitted properly.

Regarding Alpkit's new bags, the gravel bag looks pretty good for the money although I'm not keen on straps on headtubes unless it's a Ti bike. I could probably use my dr.jon strapdeck to hold it off the headtube. Certainly better value than the oversized pencil cases that seem to cost £60+

that sums up my thoughts on many bags, particularly ones that see-saw round your head tube. The gravel bag does look really good, but it'd have to mount differently for me.

I think we might be reaching peak bag soon mind, and with something like the gravel bag or larger saddle packs, aside from encouraging TMS, some things seem better carried in a small hydration pack or bum bag... Esp on road rides or faster gravel rides when it'd be more aero anyway..?

[johnnystorm]

that sums up my thoughts on many bags, particularly ones that see-saw round your head tube. The gravel bag does look really good, but it'd have to mount differently for me.

I think we might be reaching peak bag soon mind, and with something like the gravel bag or larger saddle packs, aside from encouraging TMS, some things seem better carried in a small hydration pack or bum bag... Esp on road rides or faster gravel rides when it'd be more aero anyway..?

Yeah, the full frame bag on the Cutthroat is plenty big enough for everything you need for a day ride, save water so I use a camelbak repack. All the hard and lumpy stuff goes on the bike and squishy water and valuables on my waist.

[Scud]

looking at the bag that goes on top of top tube and attaches to seatpost and the frame bag that takes up front of main triangle, i am guessing Restrap and Revelate would like their ideas back...

[ScotRoutes]

That boat has surely long since sailed

I'm not sure that Alpkit do innovation. Their strength seems to come from producing lower cost / more affordable alternatives.

[johnnystorm]

looking at the bag that goes on top of top tube and attaches to seatpost and the frame bag that takes up front of main triangle, i am guessing Restrap and Revelate would like their ideas back...

Not sure that Restrap will/should make a lot of noise about copying ideas.

As Colin says, that ship sailed a long time ago...

[Bearbonesnorm]

looking at the bag that goes on top of top tube and attaches to seatpost and the frame bag that takes up front of main triangle, i am guessing Restrap and Revelate would like their ideas back...

Uhm, I had a frame bag similar to that which was produced in the late 80's. How about harness set ups that hold a dry bag - Wildcat were the first with that (my idea incidentally) yet now, most manufacturers produce something? Unless you were in at the very start, then you've probably come up with very little that's new.

[Lazarus]

are harnesses not just like disc brakes or suspension forks or gears or pneumatic tyres etc

they are so good that everyone will do them /copy them/emulate them whomever thought of them/did them first.

[Bearbonesnorm]

are harnesses not just like disc brakes or suspension forks or gears or pneumatic tyres etc

they are so good that everyone will do them /copy them/emulate them whomever thought of them/did them first.

Yes and that's the point really.

[jameso]

I think it's ok to be influenced if you acknowledge where your influences come from and move the design on or adapt it for a new use/user. An almost straight copy is a different thing and passing someone else's work off as your own is a straight ethical no-go. I suppose we could argue that designs can be protected but a small bag maker doesn't have time and $ to register and protect their innovative idea or design and in a small industry I don't see that as meaning their work is fair game - it just presents an ethics Q or trap to other brands in that space. I think if you respect the market as a whole, makers and users, you understand this. Brands that don't, I don't buy from. I'd pay the premium for the original if I value the idea.

Then there's areas where the prior art is so well established that it's fine. Patents expired etc. But you can still innovate in those areas. TRP Spyres moved cable disc design along.

[stevenshand]

I think being influenced by existing designs is cool. Looking at something and thinking "that's neat but I know how to make it even better" is something that happens all the time and it's how most progress comes about. What I don't understand is the mentality of looking at something, thinking it's a good idea and then being motivated just to make a cheaper version. How could you get excited if that was your job?

[pistonbroke]

To be fair to Alpkit, sorry Shaf, when they first brought out their tapered saddle bag, they paid homage to Ians Wildcat design of holster and acknowledged it's compatibility. I guess it's taken them 5 or 6 years to copy it via a few iterations that had a reputation for turning your bike into a tail wagging dog when packed.

[Lazarus]

An almost straight copy is a different thing and passing someone else's work off as your own is a straight ethical no-go.

even if you give it a witty name like the jeff bar ?
Dont disagree nor do I disagre with Steve about innovating from a known design - its basically progress

Its is shame local /UK small /cottage brands get priced out though by mass produced imported copies - where possible I try to support

Just about to do a wildcat order actually.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Ah c'mon.

Even Wildcat isn't *Wildcat* anymore. No disrespect to StevenS

The world rolls on. Besides, "there's nothing new under the sun".

[stevenshand]

Even Wildcat isn't *Wildcat* anymore. No disrespect to StevenS

Not sure Beth and Ian would be happy to hear that.

[slarge]

Beth is going to be doing some work on my seatpack and bar harness very soon, so I can say that the Barrington's are still very much involved.

[redefined_cycles]

On the subject of bags and designs. Firstly, just to put my issue with AK to bed, I really only wanted a tiny apology and maybe a 'sorry but for such and such reason, etc etc'. I did acknowledge how strong their frame was by trying to smash it t peices and couldn't. I've since tried and smashed a road carbon frame within about 2 mins straight.

AK were probably the first outdoor brand (other than Deuter who I came across by chsnce and the bag is still living 20 years later) where I realsied what quality workmanship actually is. Following on from that I subsequently got very very fortunate and secured a very used WC bag aswell as a few Revelate bits n bobs.

Been through AK bags (their rubbish IMO) and a few others that have been real good (Alpamayo was amazing) but the quality of workmanship on Revelate and WC just stands out. That first harness I got from WC for the bars on my Condor (incedentally my first ever purchase off the forum I think) was just amazing. I just hadn't realised how good it was at the time...

Sorry for being all over the place with my thoughts. AK, if you're listening, really sorry our relationship became sub standard, suddenly after about 10 years of being rather fruitful qnd enjoyable. Maybe next time just try saying, 'we're sorry fro the situation'...

Sorry

[jameso]

An almost straight copy is a different thing and passing someone else's work off as your own is a straight ethical no-go.

even if you give it a witty name like the jeff bar ?

The Jeff (Geoff) Bar is an interesting one to me. I'm an admirer of Jeff's work. I'm also an admirer of how in touch with the market PX are. Steven's right about just making someone else's idea cheaper. At the same time I'd say Jeff left the door wide open by not addressing his route to market that adds a lot of cost to his products. His bars are high quality but till, they're a lot of money. Part of great product brands is reasonable pricing, as well as adding value. I'd still buy a bar from Jones but I'm prob not the same buyer as the majority.
What PX may have done is let more people buy into one of his simplest and best ideas and I reckon he will have got some exposure and sales from it - I ended up with 2 Jones framesets after riding a Titec H-bar for a while. No such thing as bad publicity, etc.
From what I recall Alpkit held off on ranging that bar due to the sensitivity or perceived idea ownership? (it's from a supplier in Taiwan, off the shelf). Someone was going to order it eventually. We could have specced it on a Pinnacle.

[Bearbonesnorm]

From what I recall Alpkit held off on ranging that bar due to the sensitivity or perceived idea ownership?

Yep.

Totally agree with Steven - progression of an idea is great but a blatant copy is a bad thing, Sadly, it's very tempting because many consumers are purely driven by price and the idea that something is a 'bargain' is too tempting to resist. Lanshan shelters and TrailStar copies are a prime example, yet many people will gladly buy them. However, perhaps some people don't realise that their purchase is a direct copy of someone else's product ... one which they invested much time in perfecting and bringing to the market.

Ooh and with regard to luggage (might as well try and get us back on topic), I think we're very lucky in the UK as there are a number of manufacturers producing their products here and not overseas or simply re-badging catalogue items.

[johnnystorm]

From what I recall Alpkit held off on ranging that bar due to the sensitivity or perceived idea ownership? (it's from a supplier in Taiwan, off the shelf).

Their choice of product name was also a significant factor iirc...

[benp1]

Alpkit's jones loop copy, the "Fu Man Chu", did arrive in the UK. But they pulled the plug before they went on the website. I sourced one from them, it was the same as my Jones Loops, I just wanted some spare and they were cheap. In the end I sold them on without fitting or using them. I don't think they were double butted though, although there is a cheaper straight gauge version of the loops too. I've since swung the other way and bought some carbon jones loops