Touring complications - Brexit related

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by jameso » Sat May 15, 2021 11:31 am

"UK nationals are now third country passport holders and France is controlling its borders by ensuring everyone entering from outside schengen can be tracked if they're not staying in a Hotel, gite, chambre d'hote, where they'll be registered."

One complication, as I've experience of before when arranging to visit friends/family there with others, is that anyone without an EU passport needs additional paperwork to stay in private accommodation. That paperwork has to be done at the local Mairie in person by the owner of the private residence you plan to stay in, with all of the quirks and process joys you might suspect and it can include the Mayor or someone from the Mairie visiting the house to inspect if they see fit. It was confirmed as applying to UK nationals on 1st May as far as I can see in a twitter thread (ie not fact from French govt site but appears to be sound info)

The Q in mind now is how they may see somebody rolling off the ferry planning to tour w/o accommodation for a week or so, using camp sites or warm showers hosts or wild camping.

There is provision for a visit (with or without visa?) without pre-booked accommodation and it requires 120 Euro a day funding evidence, ie showing a bank statement perhaps though I don't know what checks are made on exit or whether there is anything more to come. I doubt they'd limit traditional cycle touring scope but I am interested in what this means for the more 'free-roaming' type of trip.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuli ... its/F21921
Image

Reception Certificate / Accommodation Cert / Attestation d' Accueil info here -
https://www.service-public.fr/particuli ... oits/F2191

Any French speakers or residents know any more about this?
Last edited by jameso on Sun May 16, 2021 7:40 am, edited 3 times in total.

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by jameso » Sat May 15, 2021 11:33 am

Oh yeah, fk Brexit and everything and everyone to do with it. Just wanted to get that in first :grin:

User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 20603
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Sat May 15, 2021 12:10 pm

Fantastic :-bd :roll:
What value a life half lived if the half you lived was the wrong half?

User avatar
stevenshand
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:45 pm
Contact:

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by stevenshand » Sat May 15, 2021 12:10 pm

I've been looking into this recently and had come to the conclusion that we don't need visas for travel to France (for up to 90 days).

Mind you my information is from the UK side, not the French side.

from here : https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advic ... quirements
Regular entry requirements
Visas
The rules for travelling or working in European countries changed on 1 January 2021:

you can travel to countries in the Schengen area for up to 90 days in any 180-day period without a visa. This applies if you travel as a tourist, to visit family or friends, to attend business meetings, cultural or sports events, or for short-term studies or training

if you are travelling to France and other Schengen countries without a visa, make sure your whole visit is within the 90-day limit. Visits to Schengen countries within the previous 180 days before you travel count towards your 90 days
to stay longer, to work or study, for business travel or for other reasons, you will need to meet the French government’s entry requirements. Check with the French Embassy what type of visa and/or work permit you may need

if you stay in France with a visa or permit, this does not count towards the 90-day limit
At French border control your passport may be stamped on entry and exit. You should also be prepared to:

queue in separate lanes from EU, EEA or Swiss citizens
show proof of your accommodation, for example a hotel booking or invitation from your host
show proof of insurance for your trip. Please check the guidance on travel insurance
you should also be able to prove that you have enough money for your stay. The minimum amount required depends on your accommodation. Please read the French government FAQs on travel

ton
Posts: 1771
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by ton » Sat May 15, 2021 12:52 pm

me and the wife were hoping for a month in france once all is open again.

does this mean it will be a load of hassle to sort out. no more riding onto the ferry at portsmouth and off at st malo ?

User avatar
Richard G
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:09 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by Richard G » Sat May 15, 2021 1:33 pm

stevenshand wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 12:10 pm
I've been looking into this recently and had come to the conclusion that we don't need visas for travel to France (for up to 90 days).
From what I can see in the OP, this seems to be separate to the visa issue.

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by jameso » Sat May 15, 2021 1:34 pm

stevenshand wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 12:10 pm
I've been looking into this recently and had come to the conclusion that we don't need visas for travel to France (for up to 90 days).
Mind you my information is from the UK side, not the French side.
Sorry yes you're correct and my post mentioned visas wrongly, I've edited to remove that line as it's irrelevant to this topic.

This is about the 'Attestation d'Accueil' that applies to (as far as I can see) the same nations that the visa rules apply to. I linked the paperwork to visas as a past visit to family in France with someone who didn't have an EU passport needed it, whether under or over the 90 days. The UK now isn't exempted from needing the Attestation d'Accueil if you're staying in private accommodation.

From the site,
"Accommodation certificate
Verified on 23 February 2021 - Directorate of Legal and Administrative Information (Prime Minister)-

A foreigner, who wishes to come to France for a tourist stay of less than 3 months, must present proof of accommodation. This document, called the reception certificate , is drawn up by the person who will welcome them at their home during their stay in France. The request is made at the town hall. The certificate is issued if the host meets certain conditions. In case of refusal, appeals are possible."

"The reception certificate concerns any foreigner wishing to stay in France for less than 3 months, as part of a private or family visit."
"The holder of a Schengen travel visa , valid for at least 1 year for several entries, is exempt from a reception certificate."
"If you are a European , Andorran or Monegasque national, you are not affected by the reception certificate." (European here is within EU or other groupings, not the continent, and UK is excluded)

That all relates to staying with friends or family.

What I'm not clear on are any implications of going to France for under 90 days without any proof of accommodation. You might be able to book a hotel on booking.com for halfway through your trip, say you'll find campsites on your way there, then cancel it - or you might not need to. Either way, authorities asking 'proof of accommodation?' could find things to question in my usual plans for tours across France.
Last edited by jameso on Sat May 15, 2021 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dyffers
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:10 pm
Location: Darkest Dorset

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by Dyffers » Sat May 15, 2021 1:39 pm

jameso wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 1:34 pm
You might be able to book a hotel on booking.com for halfway through your trip, say you'll find campsites on your way there, then cancel it - or you might not need to.
Although not camping, this is how the US border entry has always worked for me; just put down an address of the first hotel you've booked and they don't check how long you're staying there vs the length of your stay.

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by jameso » Sat May 15, 2021 1:48 pm

Dyffers wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 1:39 pm
jameso wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 1:34 pm
You might be able to book a hotel on booking.com for halfway through your trip, say you'll find campsites on your way there, then cancel it - or you might not need to.
Although not camping, this is how the US border entry has always worked for me; just put down an address of the first hotel you've booked and they don't check how long you're staying there vs the length of your stay.
Generally the same in Asia also, and you can put fairly vague hotel info in there and it's never questioned.
I've found the jobsworthiness of French officials varies from maximum PITA possible to CNGAS at all so it could be a lottery. I don't resent their rules, just want to be able to enjoy the freedom to ride and sleep where I end up. If that means a first night Gite booking so be it. Calling in to see friends or family there on a bike tour may never be noticed either whereas a trip for 2 with luggage, flights etc to stay with friends for a week is more obvious and likely to need the formalities.

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by jameso » Sat May 15, 2021 1:56 pm

ton wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 12:52 pm
me and the wife were hoping for a month in france once all is open again.

does this mean it will be a load of hassle to sort out. no more riding onto the ferry at portsmouth and off at st malo ?
Probably no hassle and my OP probably makes it look more of a big deal than I intended. If you want to stay with friends for a few nights there is a paperwork formality needed. You might get away with calling in w/o it, it may be a good thing to get if they live in a small area with a nosey Mairie office and your hosts didn't want to risk it.

If you wanted to tour between campsites you may get away with no bookings or just one or two. I'm not sure. Certainly looks as if you can get a visa without needing any accommodation confirmed so I'd hope the same would apply to under 90 day no visa needed stays - just unsure if other stuff needs confirming or presenting at the border (proof of ability to support yourself financially as per the accommodation-free visa rules perhaps).

User avatar
Wotsits
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by Wotsits » Sat May 15, 2021 2:46 pm

jameso wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 1:48 pm
I've found the jobsworthiness of French officials varies from maximum PITA possible to CNGAS at all so it could be a lottery.
I think it’ll come down to this^

Been working in Northern France for just over a week now. Was flapping a bit before I left, trying to make sure I had all the correct paperwork to travel. Gets to French passport control with my folder & all he was interested in was my passport & negative covid test, wasn’t even interested in my reason for travelling, destination, etc. They were more fussy on the Uk side.
French customs were a different matter though.. This particular guy had half my van out, waving parts at me- no social distancing, demanding ‘how much’ & going on about Brrexeet!!

There’s also supposed to be a curfew after 7pm atm, but I was still on the road well after 7 & it was as busy as before..

I can’t see how they’ll properly police everyone, they’ll probably just be looking for people who look like they might be going to overstay the 90days & spend their time chasing them..
Ever Feel Like You're Being Orbited?!

ripio
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:12 am

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by ripio » Sat May 15, 2021 4:50 pm

What about staying with Warmshowers/Couchsurfing/Homecamper hosts etc?

Also, there have been plenty Aussies, Kiwis, Americans, etc, cycle touring in France for years, how have they been managing?

User avatar
GregMay
Posts: 3210
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:57 pm
Location: Calderdale
Contact:

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by GregMay » Sat May 15, 2021 7:28 pm

This is all well and good. But, blue passports!


I’ll happily leave with my European passport and continue as normal.

/smugmode
Image

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by jameso » Sat May 15, 2021 9:06 pm

ripio wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:50 pm
What about staying with Warmshowers/Couchsurfing/Homecamper hosts etc?

Also, there have been plenty Aussies, Kiwis, Americans, etc, cycle touring in France for years, how have they been managing?
Good point, and I expect I was just in one of those moods when I read half of the info on this and posted before thinking it through.

lune ranger
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:52 pm
Location: Peoples Republic of Devon

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by lune ranger » Sat May 15, 2021 9:58 pm

jameso wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 9:06 pm
ripio wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:50 pm
What about staying with Warmshowers/Couchsurfing/Homecamper hosts etc?

Also, there have been plenty Aussies, Kiwis, Americans, etc, cycle touring in France for years, how have they been managing?
Good point, and I expect I was just in one of those moods when I read half of the info on this and posted before thinking it through.
I find myself in one of those moods every time I think about the whole Brexit sh1t show.
I’m lucky enough to have an Austrian passport courtesy of my kinder-transported granny.
My British passport runs out this summer and I don’t think I’ll be buying a Blue One.

User avatar
Wotsits
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by Wotsits » Sat May 15, 2021 10:37 pm

Just got this link through from a friend in France, not read it yet, but he reckons vistiors will have to pay 30 euros for the cost of the certificate too! :shock:

https://france-visas.gouv.fr/en_US/web/ ... -in-france
Ever Feel Like You're Being Orbited?!

ton
Posts: 1771
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by ton » Sat May 15, 2021 10:54 pm

looks like more exploring in scotland this year then. feck france............. :lol:

ripio
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:12 am

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by ripio » Sat May 15, 2021 10:58 pm

More concerning than the staying with friends and family thing is the requrement to be able to show funds covering 120€ per day if you are not staying in pre-booked accommodation.
So if you want to go for a three week camping tour you need to have €2520 in your bank account, even though you might only be spending €600 or less.

User avatar
Wotsits
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by Wotsits » Sat May 15, 2021 11:05 pm

The whole thing is crazy, going to hurt their tourist industry as much as it’ll hurt us. Probably more so, as people will just go somewhere else..
Wouldn’t surprise me if this is a result from the stand-off over all the on-going fisheries stuff..
Ever Feel Like You're Being Orbited?!

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by jameso » Sat May 15, 2021 11:34 pm

ripio wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 10:58 pm
More concerning than the staying with friends and family thing is the requrement to be able to show funds covering 120€ per day if you are not staying in pre-booked accommodation.
So if you want to go for a three week camping tour you need to have €2520 in your bank account, even though you might only be spending €600 or less.
Bike touring over the channel, the holiday for the average man.. or was. I think that 120 a day fund is for visa >90 days without accommodation though, average man doesn't get that much time off anyway.

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by jameso » Sat May 15, 2021 11:40 pm

Wotsits wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 11:05 pm
The whole thing is crazy, going to hurt their tourist industry as much as it’ll hurt us. Probably more so, as people will just go somewhere else..
Wouldn’t surprise me if this is a result from the stand-off over all the on-going fisheries stuff..
All pre-existing, pre-brexit rules for non EU countries. Tories would love to have us thinking it's all some revenge from a malicious EU, covers the fact they had no clue what the end results would be.

ripio
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:12 am

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by ripio » Sun May 16, 2021 12:29 am

jameso wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 11:34 pm
Bike touring over the channel, the holiday for the average man.. or was. I think that 120 a day fund is for visa >90 days without accommodation though, average man doesn't get that much time off anyway.
Nope, that page is where you end up if you say you are staying for less than 90 days.
And the 'average man', whatever that means may well get three weeks off, I have had a three week cycle touring holiday in France in 10 of the last 20 years, and I work in a job where I earn around the minimum wage.
But even if you only have two weeks, its still €1680 you may need to show evidence of when you might only be spending €400.

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by jameso » Sun May 16, 2021 7:39 am

ripio wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 12:29 am
jameso wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 11:34 pm
Bike touring over the channel, the holiday for the average man.. or was. I think that 120 a day fund is for visa >90 days without accommodation though, average man doesn't get that much time off anyway.
Nope, that page is where you end up if you say you are staying for less than 90 days.
The 120E a day note is here, https://www.service-public.fr/particuli ... its/F21921
and my mistake, it's not related to >90 day visa, it's listed under "You must meet all of the following conditions when crossing the border:" and then whether you need a visa or not(OP edited). But as said above, will it be checked?
And the 'average man', whatever that means may well get three weeks off, I have had a three week cycle touring holiday in France in 10 of the last 20 years, and I work in a job where I earn around the minimum wage.
But even if you only have two weeks, its still €1680 you may need to show evidence of when you might only be spending €400.
3 months, not 3 weeks : )
'Average man' as in cycle touring is an everyman pass-time, accessible to most. 120 a day is way above what I spend on a tour and suggests they expect you to be able to support hotel/B+B use along the way whether you use them or not.

User avatar
Wotsits
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by Wotsits » Sun May 16, 2021 9:20 am

jameso wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 11:40 pm
All pre-existing, pre-brexit rules for non EU countries. Tories would love to have us thinking it's all some revenge from a malicious EU, covers the fact they had no clue what the end results would be.
You’re right James, suppose it’s just the realities of Brexit starting to take effect.
Just hope something better can be worked out..
Ever Feel Like You're Being Orbited?!

User avatar
Mariner
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:37 pm
Location: East Devon

Re: Touring complications - Brexit related

Post by Mariner » Sun May 16, 2021 9:37 am

No mention of a Covid test certificate?
The Santiago website is flagging up that as a requirement for holiday entry to Spain.

Post Reply