And here's another for you.

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

lune ranger
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:52 pm
Location: Peoples Republic of Devon

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by lune ranger » Wed May 12, 2021 8:06 pm

Dave Barter wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:48 pm
Stu before I joined this forum I had a nonplussed attitude to fires and was blissfully unaware of the issue of scarring. I’m now a proto-anti-fire fascist. So you’ve changed at least one person for the better. Keep up the good work.
+1

User avatar
Richpips
Posts: 1712
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:57 pm
Location: Peak District

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by Richpips » Wed May 12, 2021 8:11 pm

Yep Stu, I used to be a fan (sic) of fires until I learned otherwise.

Lazarus
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:49 am

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by Lazarus » Wed May 12, 2021 8:13 pm

Another whose views on fires were formed/changed by you and this place
You are making a difference

Cheeky Monkey
Posts: 3189
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:48 pm
Location: Leeds ish
Contact:

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Wed May 12, 2021 8:27 pm

Aye. :hand up:

It's been an education this place and I'm grateful for it. Fires in particular have been a revelation.

But if you're going to give up because you cant convince the dumb-arses that can't be convinced then you're not the man I know and love 😎

User avatar
UnderTheRadars
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:12 pm
Location: Stourbridge/North Col of North Worcestershire Alps

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by UnderTheRadars » Wed May 12, 2021 8:41 pm

As someone who, during the hot summer of 2018, was up all night helping the fire service put out a good chunk of Kinver edge due to some c**** using a disposable bbq, seeing the death and damage it caused first hand, I’m am now rather militant when it comes to idiots like this
Image

User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 20603
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Wed May 12, 2021 9:01 pm

Just received this email, so fair play to both Rob and Anna I think.
Hi Stuart,

I'm one of the riders in this most recent Saddleback video which has caused a bit of a stir on your forum, and I wanted to drop you a message to say 'hi' and explain ourselves in some way.

I'm not trying make excuses here, the videographer along with us wanted some evening camp fire shots, which at the time seemed to me like a reasonably innocent act (if a bit of a cliche). In hindsight and having read the thread on your forum I appreciate that this wasnt a wise thing to do. Frankly I feel pretty foolish for not realising this at the time.

For what it's worth, we lit a fire on an area of already scorched ground, which was clearly widely used for 'gatherings' as there was a large amount of litter and beer cans etc around. It didn't feel like an irresponsible act, but perhaps uploading and sharing a video of it wasn't sensible.

I've not much else to say other than thanks for calling us up on it. You've made me see this from an angle I I otherwise wouldn't have and I'm sure to think twice about when and where I light fires in the future.

I don't feel like getting involved in the forum discussion is going to achieve much on my part, but for what its worth 'thanks' and 'sorry'. I'm seeing this as an opportunity to learn. If you want to share this in the thread then feel free.

On the status of the video... I'm not a part of our marketing department so cant say for sure, but I would imagine we'll be responding to comments and removing it.

Thanks,

Rob
What value a life half lived if the half you lived was the wrong half?

User avatar
NorwayCalling
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:50 pm
Location: Stavanger, Norway / Cardiff, UK

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by NorwayCalling » Wed May 12, 2021 9:01 pm

I live overlooking a large city park with a mature woodland as part of it (Heath park for those who know's the d'iff)....

The problem with fires is now endemic. during the last moth there have been fires lit all over the park, with at least 4 calls going out to the fire service to put them out before the whole woodland went up. This is a very special ecosystem, with bats, owls, hedgehogs etc. and the an increasingly rare "wild" space in the city. The fires issue is new since lockdown, been going to the park for most of my life and this is new this year.

Now I know lockdown has forced many changes on us, “the youth” have always been causing ASB in the park for years, but never fires. Now, hardly a weekend goes by without a new “firepit” turning up.

I can’t face loosing this woodland, so have made a bunch of “fire beaters” (aka rubber mat on a stick) to the approved design and have placed then where they are accessible (in my front garden now). The one in the park themselves lasted 1.5 days before getting destroyed and thrown in the pond.

The weathers back to default – wet and miserable, but towards the end of last month, when everything was bone dry, it was only a matter of time.

Fire in the outdoors must have become mainstream for "the youth" to have caught on to them… cat is out of the bag now I am afraid.
Image

lune ranger
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:52 pm
Location: Peoples Republic of Devon

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by lune ranger » Wed May 12, 2021 9:11 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:01 pm
Just received this email, so fair play to both Rob and Anna I think.
Hi Stuart,

I'm one of the riders in this most recent Saddleback video which has caused a bit of a stir on your forum, and I wanted to drop you a message to say 'hi' and explain ourselves in some way.

I'm not trying make excuses here, the videographer along with us wanted some evening camp fire shots, which at the time seemed to me like a reasonably innocent act (if a bit of a cliche). In hindsight and having read the thread on your forum I appreciate that this wasnt a wise thing to do. Frankly I feel pretty foolish for not realising this at the time.

For what it's worth, we lit a fire on an area of already scorched ground, which was clearly widely used for 'gatherings' as there was a large amount of litter and beer cans etc around. It didn't feel like an irresponsible act, but perhaps uploading and sharing a video of it wasn't sensible.

I've not much else to say other than thanks for calling us up on it. You've made me see this from an angle I I otherwise wouldn't have and I'm sure to think twice about when and where I light fires in the future.

I don't feel like getting involved in the forum discussion is going to achieve much on my part, but for what its worth 'thanks' and 'sorry'. I'm seeing this as an opportunity to learn. If you want to share this in the thread then feel free.

On the status of the video... I'm not a part of our marketing department so cant say for sure, but I would imagine we'll be responding to comments and removing it.

Thanks,

Rob
:-bd

Boner power in action :shock:

User avatar
JohnClimber
Posts: 3310
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by JohnClimber » Wed May 12, 2021 9:17 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:01 pm
....... already scorched ground, which was clearly widely used for 'gatherings' as there was a large amount of litter and beer cans etc around. It didn't feel like an irresponsible act..........................
If Rob didn't think that as "irresponsible", he's just as bad as the ones leaving "the large amount of litter and beer cans etc around."

Did he and the team take out at least some of the litter and beer cans as most of us would have, if we had the ability to carry at least a bit of it out?

Cheeky Monkey
Posts: 3189
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:48 pm
Location: Leeds ish
Contact:

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Wed May 12, 2021 9:21 pm

JohnClimber wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:17 pm
Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:01 pm
....... already scorched ground, which was clearly widely used for 'gatherings' as there was a large amount of litter and beer cans etc around. It didn't feel like an irresponsible act..........................
If Rob didn't think that as "irresponsible", he's just as bad as the ones leaving "the large amount of litter and beer cans etc around."

Did he and the team take out at least some of the litter and beer cans as most of us would if we had the ability to carry a bit out?
Mleh. Nuance IMO. At least he's taken time, made an effort and seems to be listening/learning.

Either that or great soft soaping 😆😆

User avatar
BigdummySteve
Posts: 2810
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:16 pm
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by BigdummySteve » Wed May 12, 2021 9:50 pm

You see Stu, you have made a difference. I think you have to give the man credit, both for listening and replying in a positive manner.
I once bivved to a nice spot in north Devon, the river bank was marred by an old fire site, the embers were long gone, as was the soil to a depth of around two inches. Judging by the moss doing it’s best to inhabit the now hostile environment I reckon I’d take another 2-3 years to recover.
Perhaps a sticky link with some education might help change people’s minds, I’m sure many don’t realise how long term the damage is and perhaps think the grass will grow back pretty soon ?
We’re all individuals, except me.

I woke up this morning but I’m still in the dark

User avatar
JohnClimber
Posts: 3310
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by JohnClimber » Wed May 12, 2021 10:08 pm

BigdummySteve wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:50 pm
Perhaps a sticky link with some education might help change people’s minds, I’m sure many don’t realise how long term the damage is and perhaps think the grass will grow back pretty soon ?
Good idea, educate as many as you can Stuart, keep up the great work.
Don't let the idiots get you down

ton
Posts: 1771
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:53 am

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by ton » Wed May 12, 2021 10:46 pm

hats off to the bloke for contacting you Stu. and seeing the error of his ways.

just like to add, i wasnt condoning him having a fire, but i can kinda see why he did. all marketing innit.

pretty apt considering our and his chosen pastime.

User avatar
johnnystorm
Posts: 3631
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: Eastern (Anglia) Front

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by johnnystorm » Wed May 12, 2021 11:09 pm

Image
Blog, News, Reviews, Opinions, Routes: http://www.originaladventure.cc/

Taylor
Posts: 3247
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:27 pm
Location: Brizzle
Contact:

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by Taylor » Wed May 12, 2021 11:39 pm

johnnystorm wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:09 pm
Fresh post from Salsa! :lol:

https://salsacycles.com/videos/why_bikepack
And remember "wear sunscreen"
https://youtu.be/EcM3rexWLdk

redefined_cycles
Posts: 5983
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu May 13, 2021 5:11 am

lune ranger wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 8:06 pm
Dave Barter wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:48 pm
Stu before I joined this forum I had a nonplussed attitude to fires and was blissfully unaware of the issue of scarring. I’m now a proto-anti-fire fascist. So you’ve changed at least one person for the better. Keep up the good work.
+1
+2 (or 3 or 10... whatever). Not that I've ever lit a fire outdoors but had it not been this forum I'd probably never have known. The valley of the Wessenden Head surely could've done with some being educated earlier.

On topic of Sportful... I kinda like them and their gear but only cos of Kristian Allegaert being there 'face'. Had it not been for Robs response I'd probably have thought tqice next time investing but seems like an unarrogant bloke who's just been educated (by yourself). So well done once again...
https://youtu.be/hvWERHBBdhU why I don't buy Israel goods.

CNN/BBC bias called out https://youtu.be/HM-UqJUPhl8

redefined_cycles
Posts: 5983
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu May 13, 2021 5:20 am

NB. Good luck with Salsa. Surely they should know better. I've put them firmly in my 'Alpkit*' pile of poo...

*sub standard gear/team = note to self= never to buy (other opinions may vary).
https://youtu.be/hvWERHBBdhU why I don't buy Israel goods.

CNN/BBC bias called out https://youtu.be/HM-UqJUPhl8

ton
Posts: 1771
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:53 am

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by ton » Thu May 13, 2021 7:09 am

bollox, i am gonna have to sell my fargo now................... :roll: :roll:

User avatar
johnnystorm
Posts: 3631
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: Eastern (Anglia) Front

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by johnnystorm » Thu May 13, 2021 7:19 am

Taylor wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:39 pm
johnnystorm wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:09 pm
Fresh post from Salsa! :lol:

https://salsacycles.com/videos/why_bikepack
And remember "wear sunscreen"
https://youtu.be/EcM3rexWLdk
:lol:
Image
Blog, News, Reviews, Opinions, Routes: http://www.originaladventure.cc/

darbeze
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:09 pm
Location: South Devon

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by darbeze » Thu May 13, 2021 7:28 am

You make a difference Stuart. Like others have said already. I am now definitely anti-campfire. That is down to you.

I have even been known to "bag it up" and bring it back with me to avoid leaving "waste" behind...

Education is the best tool. My wife Fi is as evangelical as you. You are not alone and it is not a waste of time.

We have to look after our world and not be dicks... Simple.

Si

redefined_cycles
Posts: 5983
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu May 13, 2021 7:47 am

ton wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 7:09 am
bollox, i am gonna have to sell my fargo now................... :roll: :roll:
Lol... I'm sure they're not that bad Tony. I was just trying to have a dig at AK :lol: (sorry)...

NB. How much you want for it :lol: :-bd
https://youtu.be/hvWERHBBdhU why I don't buy Israel goods.

CNN/BBC bias called out https://youtu.be/HM-UqJUPhl8

User avatar
RIP
Posts: 6186
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:24 pm
Location: Seat 23 (window, facing), Coach H, 08.05 Leighton Buzzard - Euston
Contact:

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by RIP » Thu May 13, 2021 7:56 am

ton wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 7:09 am
bollox, i am gonna have to sell my fargo now................... :roll: :roll:
You might be OK.... the date on the film was 2014 I think so maybe they've learned the error of their ways since then.... erm...
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by jameso » Thu May 13, 2021 8:04 am

Fair dues to them getting in touch with you Stuart. I think the comment about using a previously used spot proves the point about how fire scarring leads to further use 'since someone already did it' and an abused area in the end.

I've used a fire scar as a spot for my own fire in the past and then learned a bit more about why LNT is important. I live opposite a field at the edge of a town which has seen a lot of littering and fires since the pandemic started, mostly young drinkers. While I don't begrudge bored teens letting off steam it's a real shame to see the litter and damage and it's clear how one fire mark is usually the start of the problem, like it's a signpost to the spot and an 'ok' to do the same - as I thought in the past. "My name's James and I was a firebug" :grin: I think it's a natural thing for humans to do and many of us will have set fire to too many things as kids.. but appreciation for the outdoors and understanding pressure on space should over-rule that. So fair dues for carrying on pointing out why it's a problem. The fire starter may believe they're responsible but so many who come later aren't.

Mind you, you could carry a proper metal fire pan on an e-bike, if you must... even a few half bricks to put it on.

User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 20603
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Thu May 13, 2021 8:18 am

Morning all, sorry if I appeared even grumpier than usual yesterday but sometimes the feeling of banging your head against a wall wears the skin a bit thin :wink:

Anyway, IMO full credit to Rob for getting in touch, I'm sure it would have been easier for him to simply ignore it or even go on the defensive. Anna (the girl in the video) said similar on FB and also said that they hadn't actually spent the night outdoors - not really sure how I feel about that as it kind of leads me back onto the topic of marketing, bandwagons, etc, so we'll leave that alone.
What value a life half lived if the half you lived was the wrong half?

jameso
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: And here's another for you.

Post by jameso » Thu May 13, 2021 8:33 am

Not a criticism of the brand/video discussed here but reminded me of https://www.instagram.com/youdidnotsleepthere/?hl=en
as an example of how things change in social media, things becoming cliched and a bit of a joke.

Instagram's still got a fair bit of the campfire thing in the same way as those fake camp outs. Bikepacker accounts who post pics of campfires or common bikepacker hashtags that bring up plenty of campfire pics. Seems to be a thing for the social camp-outs and I get that, I know some of the posters who came up in a quick tag click and they aren't idiots. Maybe it isn't seen to be a problem in their case/spot/how they do it -it can be done without a trace if you can BA to carry a pan, or you could have a local spot that's on private land- but the imagery leads to more of it or it being seen as the thing to do. Seems that it's becoming less common though?

I think they way these things change isn't by threatening to boycott a brand or jumping on a rider for a mistake, it's hardly a 'cancel' justification is it. It's of of those areas where many of us learn better behaviour as we gain understanding of our place in the outdoors. Same as crapping next to a stream* or leaving big tyre slides on a footpath. No-one dies. It's just not cool (or it's just plain wrong).

*this hasn't happened in a bike brand promo film, not that I'm aware of anyway
Last edited by jameso on Thu May 13, 2021 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply