Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

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BobCatMax
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Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by BobCatMax » Thu May 06, 2021 11:35 am

Well. My eyes have been opened to a very spendy little corner of cycling I knew nothing about!

Due to a very limited budget my current thoughts are

Dynamo hub - talking to richpips about his love mud juice/SP jobby
B&M usb-werk to charge everything
Cache battery - probably something Anker made

Lights to follow once I've recouped some cash!

I quite like the look of the SON edelux mk2, is it good enough to run off road?

What other budget options are there?
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shutuplegs
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by shutuplegs » Thu May 06, 2021 11:50 am

BobCatMax wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:35 am
SON edelux mk2, is it good enough to run off road?
I wouldn’t have said so, I’ve used mine on a few (road) rides and feels very much like a road specific light, kind of like car headlights with dipped beams. Could lead to issues with low branches off road, also the low speed beam wouldn’t be terribly useful for techy sections.

It’s plenty bright enough for it’s designed purpose though I’m still getting the angle set up right, had a driver complain about being dazzled the other day. I said fair point but at least he saw me! :-bd
“We live and learn, and big mountains are stern teachers” - HW Tilman.

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ScotRoutes
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by ScotRoutes » Thu May 06, 2021 12:07 pm

XT hub.

lune ranger
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by lune ranger » Thu May 06, 2021 1:11 pm

For budget stuff - road oriented - B&M make a ton of good reasonably priced lights. They don’t match the build quality of Schmidt or Supernova but they work well. As I understand it the SON Edelux uses B&M reflectors/optics.
I run an Edelux II for commuting. - it’s a great lamp with auto switching and a road specific beam. I dare say it would be fine for gravel and flowing, open double track by itself. Coupled with a helmet light like a Joystick you’d be fine for most things. But as stated above it has a flat/truncated beam that won’t pick out overhead obstacles.
For off road an often overlooked lamp is the Supernova E3 Triple. I got a good second hand price on one of these compared to the main competitors like Exposure Revo, Sinewave Beacon or K-Lite. It’s a great off road lamp but suffers at low speed, it flickers a lot more than others.
I moved to a Revo when I got one second hand at reasonable cost and do like it more.
I use an Igaro D3 charger that works well.
If I was starting again from scratch I’d for sure want a Beacon. User reports are all glowing, and it takes care of charging from the same unit as the lamp.
My experience or hubs is limited to SON28. I have a Klassic and a more recent version - both QR 6 bolt. They are superb. My oldest has seen approaching 20 years use. Touring, MTB and commuting.
I used a LoveMud Juice but found the performance woeful in comparison. Charging devices was pitiful and the hub rotated in the dropout unhooking (and also breaking) the wires. Alpkit took it back for a full refund and that’s the best thing I can say about it.

Lazarus
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Lazarus » Thu May 06, 2021 1:28 pm

is it good enough to run off road?
None are IME
Basically the faster you go the more lght you have and the harder/more technical the terrain the slower you go- not a great overlap there
Personally the one time i tried it i scrubbed speed then could not see enough so stopped then realised i could see nothing. Its a no from me
Dynamo only is fine uphill [even at slow speeds]and flat but poor downhill/when technical
YMMV but i doubt it- perhaps you get used to it/ plan for it.

Sinewave beacon user as it can run from a battery and avoid that issue- yes its spendy but you wll recoup most of it if you sell and its not really any dearer than a light and a good USB charger.
The lumen rating seems poor but its brighter than the lumens alone suggest - not much , if any less than my joystick which should have 400 more lumens [1000 v 600]

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Thu May 06, 2021 1:37 pm

I'll second Colin's suggestion of Shimano hubs if a SON is too spendy. Mine have all served me well with no issues.
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Lazarus
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Lazarus » Thu May 06, 2021 2:03 pm

dont think it comes in 15mm bolt through though - is it not 12mm?

https://spacycles.co.uk/m20b0s133p4747/ ... H-UR705-3D

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PaulB2
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by PaulB2 » Thu May 06, 2021 2:07 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:03 pm
dont think it comes in 15mm bolt through though - is it not 12mm?

https://spacycles.co.uk/m20b0s133p4747/ ... H-UR705-3D
There's also a DH-UR708-3D model:

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... 08-3D.html

Lazarus
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Lazarus » Thu May 06, 2021 2:09 pm

Ha I did try and google including searching the shimano website
Ta
My ancient QR shimano one is still working [ 26" mind]

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BigdummySteve
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by BigdummySteve » Thu May 06, 2021 3:01 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 1:37 pm
I'll second Colin's suggestion of Shimano hubs if a SON is too spendy. Mine have all served me well with no issues.
Good advice, many of on here have had issues with the SP and rebadged versions. Failure within 500miles isn’t uncommon, or it could last 5k+.
The son is a very nice hub if the shimano doesn’t fit.

One thing to bear in mind, you might get a warranty with the SP but it doesn’t take in to account wheel rebuild costs or the general hassle of failure.
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htrider
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by htrider » Thu May 06, 2021 5:32 pm

SP hubs are fine and there are a few bargains around. They are re-buildable with a bit of a faff. Shimano ones likewise (and also aren't supposed to be re-buildable, but are) and good value. Exposure lights are fine on tracks or good single track where you can do more than 15km/hr.

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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by jameso » Fri May 07, 2021 6:41 am

B&M usb-werk to charge everything
Got two bikes with them on, they're generally good ime, very effective for keeping a Garmin etc going but do try to protect the wires from excess flex or sunlight, they're not as durable as I'd like. Had a good few year's use from one before cables started to go. Also need to be sure they're not left for a long time with a discharged battery, that killed it off (after the cable was fixed). Easy to keep the internal battery full usually and it only takes ~15 mins riding max. I'd just depleted it by leaving a part charged Garmin plugged in that pulled all charge from the battery, hung the bike up, no use for ages.

BobCatMax
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by BobCatMax » Fri May 07, 2021 9:03 pm

Wow, blown away by all the input, thank you.

Very interested to read about the lights. I have a magicshine clone bought 8+ years ago that has been amazing. I upgraded the lens to a wide beam pattern to spread across better and it does everything I need it to. Not too long back I bought a trustfire battery pack/charger (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HNWFGRX/ ... UTF8&psc=1) as I'm a 18650 battery hoarder. My backup and helmet torch run on them too. It would seem that in terms of lighting, keeping this setup is the best value for money, charging everything in the day and a spare set of 18650's is the way forward
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mattpage
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by mattpage » Fri May 07, 2021 9:35 pm

I've got a SON delux 12, on a road bike and it's absolutely brilliant. Supplied and built up by JRA wheels.

For lights, check out kLite. They do several versions and I use the road which is brilliant.

Charging then via a gadget I can't remember the name of to a Anker battery.

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Alpinum
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Alpinum » Fri May 07, 2021 11:41 pm

Some mates have XT dyno hubs for everyday use (cycle lanes, mostly gravel, grit, and quite messy in winter) and also use those bikes for road touring. I can't remember one talking about a failure - some being well over 5 years old.

Only issue, one mate told me, is the connector being a bit cheaply made. It's some sort of plastic clip in thing to hold the wires of the lamp/charger. Yet, it still has to fail him.

As far as I recall, most use this hub with the Supernova E3 Pro or Pure (problem when buying a bike from catalogue - the stronger Triple 2 doesn't comply with the German RTA, although the bikes are used in Switzerland, where the stronger Triple 2 is legal)

I use SON (on two bikes) for myself with a "Forumslader" (DIY kit for charger) and Supernova E3 Triple 2 (also E3 Tail Light 2) and couldn't be happier. Been on a couple of trips which saw very regular river fords, -30 °C and high altitude desert conditions and this stuff is absolutely worry free. Also in one case the hub and lights are used for everyday.
Also, I power wash my bikes...
Cables don't seem to be breaking down due to exposure, yet the rubber seal at the lamp housing is showing minor cracks on my everday bike. Lamp is mounted upside down, so that part gets all the sun. But it remains watertight.

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BigdummySteve
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by BigdummySteve » Sat May 08, 2021 12:25 am

The Forumslader, a mythical beast. I almost bought one due to the great charging charging figures and reviews. But it’s almost like he doesn’t want you to buy one. You can’t as a non-German speaker just click on a link and buy it, I had to go through several long email exchanges before I was offered an invoice. I’d lost interest by then l. I particularly like the integrated cashe battery and claimed functionality of the Bluetooth version,
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Sat May 08, 2021 7:45 am

SP hubs are fine
Honestly Phil, you wouldn't say that if you'd seen the inside of mine after 600 miles. Sadly, I can't show the pictures as SP made me promise not to.
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BobCatMax
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by BobCatMax » Sat May 08, 2021 9:54 am

Was that after some fairly ordinary conditions?
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sean_iow
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by sean_iow » Sat May 08, 2021 10:03 am

My first SP lasted less than 500 miles. The warranty replacement, which was the newer improved version, had 4 years and 1000s of miles of on/off use. It's now got a just detectable bit of play in the bearings. No longer in regular use as that bike is no longer assembled.
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Alpinum
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Alpinum » Sat May 08, 2021 10:45 am

BigdummySteve wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 12:25 am
The Forumslader, a mythical beast. I almost bought one due to the great charging charging figures and reviews. But it’s almost like he doesn’t want you to buy one. You can’t as a non-German speaker just click on a link and buy it, I had to go through several long email exchanges before I was offered an invoice. I’d lost interest by then l. I particularly like the integrated cashe battery and claimed functionality of the Bluetooth version,
You can't as a German speaker, just click on a link and buy it either.
To sell (electronic) devices in the EU you need the CE. Since he just helps us lazy and incompetent folks for little payment to get something one can get otherwise, I kind of understand the process is not just click and buy. He's doing us a favour.

Yes, bluetooth works a treat. You can use it as a weather station, cycle computer etc. if you wish.

The efficiency is mind boggling. It even charges when I'm pushing. The latest version will automatically adapt charging to the speed, making it even more efficient than the former versions over all kind of speeds.

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Sat May 08, 2021 12:37 pm

Was that after some fairly ordinary conditions?
Yes but I imagine it was possibly a 'Friday afternoon' hub. However, when a wheel rebuild is required to replace it, I decided I no longer wanted to spin the wheel of fortune.
What value a life half lived if the half you lived was the wrong half?

lune ranger
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by lune ranger » Mon May 10, 2021 12:08 am

That’s what p1ssed me off most about the Love Mud hub.
It was great that Alpkit took it back for a full refund after I’d had it a while but that was small consolation when I had to rebuild the wheel with new spokes to rectify the problem.

Teaman
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Teaman » Fri May 28, 2021 7:25 am

I read this on the bikeradar report on the HT550:

Lighting Josh’s way was an Exposure Revo dynamo light powered by an as-of-yet unreleased Boost-spaced version of SON’s legendary dynamo hub.

I am no expert but I am under the impression that SON have been doing a boost spaced version (Son 28) for some time now. ....or should I be reading that as this is an updated version of their existing boost spaced Son 28 product?

And whilst we're here, I am after a Son 28 boost front 29" wheel (rim suitable for up to 2.5") if you have one for sale or know someone who has one. Thanks.

Bikeradar report is here:

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro- ... lideshow=3

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sean_iow
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by sean_iow » Fri May 28, 2021 7:47 am

That caught my eye as well, SON have had a boost spaced hub for ages.

Bit of a risk taking a prototype hub, rims and frame on on an event as though as the HT550? Unless you're involved with the company and using it as a marketing opportunity :wink:
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Landslide
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Re: Diving down the dynamo rabbit hole

Post by Landslide » Fri May 28, 2021 9:03 am

And then report back as having had charging problems...

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