24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Nah, there's no way of knowing the outcome is there.
No there isn't and that's why I said 'chance of'.
and protestors could be provoked into a reaction.
and if that did happen, a lot of good will and support from the populace will likely vanish - and it won't matter who's right and who's wrong.
Better to engage young people into action rather than apathy.
I haven't heard any calls for apathy, simply consideration of the current situation and a response that's sympathetic to it in the hope of implementing change.
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RIP
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by RIP »

thenorthwind wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:03 am watch and listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwYCeJ--zp4
For old codgers like me who prefer to read in my own good time the transcript is here: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2 ... 0/Trespass. Pretty much compulsory reading or listening for everyone on Here I think.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Yes, I know I should let this go ... so apologies for not doing. While out with the dogs, I was thinking about this as you do and I thought. What would happen if ER were to organise a mass litter pick? Not only would it produce a real positive benefit almost instantly (I can only imagine how many tons of plastic it would help prevent reaching the ocean) but it would also generate fantastic PR ... no one could say a bad word about it.

Then I thought, perhaps a self-imposed limit on phone charging so we don't need to generate as much electricity. Maybe halving the amount of showers we take or choosing not to use a dishwasher?

Apologies again for that as it has nothing directly to do with holding a mass trespass but as ever we have digressed and expanded things :wink:
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by MuddyPete »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:15 pm What would happen if ER were to organise a mass litter pick? Not only would it produce a real positive benefit almost instantly (I can only imagine how many tons of plastic it would help prevent reaching the ocean) but it would also generate fantastic PR ... no one could say a bad word about it.
Genius! :-bd

"Litter-picking" has more positive and genteel associations than "tresspass", even if the litter-pickers are equal in number to potential "trespassers" and cover an equally-extensive area :wink: .

A subtle, but very civilised, form of protest :d .
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by techno »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:15 pm Yes, I know I should let this go ... so apologies for not doing. While out with the dogs, I was thinking about this as you do and I thought. What would happen if ER were to organise a mass litter pick? Not only would it produce a real positive benefit almost instantly (I can only imagine how many tons of plastic it would help prevent reaching the ocean) but it would also generate fantastic PR ... no one could say a bad word about it.
From the guide for the day:

"
Positive Trace
The ‘leave-no-trace’ mantra of the seventies is boring. We prefer the phrase coined by Lawyers for Nature, ‘positive trace’.
Bring a rubbish bag with you, And if you see some litter, pick it up and remove it from the land.
This trespass is part of a wider move-ment that wants to see the public more actively Involved with caring for nature, so lets start as we mean to go on."
Sounds like they've already done that.

I should probably let it go too eh :lol:
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

When I was a kid Pete and had been sent home from school yet again, my old man took me to one side and said, "you won't beat the system by trying to f*ck it head on. You'll only beat it by learning how to play the game" :wink:

Positive Trace
The ‘leave-no-trace’ mantra of the seventies is boring. We prefer the phrase coined by Lawyers for Nature, ‘positive trace’.
Bring a rubbish bag with you, And if you see some litter, pick it up and remove it from the land.
This trespass is part of a wider move-ment that wants to see the public more actively Involved with caring for nature, so lets start as we mean to go on."
Sounds like they've already done that.
That is superb :-bd
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MuddyPete
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by MuddyPete »

Wise words, Stu. :lol:
Intelligent engagement, Techno :-bd .
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by RIP »

MuddyPete wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:56 pm Wise words, Stu. :lol:
Intelligent engagement, Techno :-bd .
Yeah, brilliant points Stu and Tech :grin: :-bd
"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....

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thenorthwind
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by thenorthwind »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:43 pm When I was a kid Pete and had been sent home from school yet again, my old man took me to one side and said, "you won't beat the system by trying to f*ck it head on. You'll only beat it by learning how to play the game" :wink:
Brilliant.

At risk of derailing the discussion again, worth considering whether the people who smashed the windows of HSBC's offices in London this morning were playing the game or trying to f**k it head on. I'm not passing judgement here. There's a place for both approaches I think.
directdrive
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by directdrive »

Dave Barter wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:49 am I think we have to be careful about demonising XR on two counts:-

1) we are mostly old gits and it’s possible that their message and approach is aimed at an up and coming generation rather than a fading one

2) there has been a massive press campaign to denigrate the organisation. Some may be justified but does it mean we all just go home and let things continue as they are? For all their faults XR keep the climate agenda buzzing

It seems a little bit hypocritical to me to laud the original trespasses and dismiss today’s action. I bet the Kinder crowd were seen in the same light as XR. We need to change the access rights nationwide. Scotland has shown that this can work and land ownership is still an utter disgrace/cartel.
Fully agree about the value of original Kinder Tresspass and this one, hugely supportive of it. I don't see any way of breaking up the land oligarchy in Britain while 'working within the system'.

On XR though maybe I can add a bit of perspective from an 'up and coming generation' - I'm 29 so don't quite qualify as that anymore, I don't think, but I can tell you from my experience in community organising and protest (I am currently involved with the tenants' union movement) that XR are very often also comprised of 'old gits'.

My impression is that they started off attracting a younger and more radical crowd that's better attuned to today's politics - but I think the original contingent of Stroud and Machynlleth hippies and crusties has crowded those people out to a very large extent. I applaud XR to no end for putting climate firmly on the agenda in the way that they did a couple of years ago, but it's increasingly difficult for me not to see them as something like the climate wing of the Lib Dems.

Last event I was at re: the policing bill, the XR speakers covered themselves in glory - one of them sang a self-penned a capella song about overpopulation, and another one got up and rambled about circumcision. I don't think their drum circles and choirs and dancing and fire poi particularly do anything to appeal to young people (neither did their holding up the Tube in London). I actually found it pretty embarrassing to be around them to be honest.

From what I saw anyway, the XR representation at that demo was overwhelmingly people 50+. Granted this is partly down to where I live, but more broadly I do think XR is falling increasingly out of touch with younger people and it's becoming the same old 70s crowd at the wheel again. Seems to me like the 'fading generation' is actually doing a pretty good job of hanging on in there. That's my very very crude intepretation anyway and obviously not true in all cases.

Anyway, agree with you on all points + no disrespect to what they have managed to achive.
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Re: 24/04/21 everybody welcome here mass trespass

Post by Dave Barter »

I don’t disagree with any of the points made but will add that women got the vote partly down to a lady who threw herself under a horse. Sadly protest needs a mix of sensibility with attention seeking. The litter pick would get zero press as it happens every week in my town. The fickle media needs playing to get these things up the agenda. I see XR as doing a good job there but for f..ks sake don’t let them near the actual solution.
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