Going tubeless...

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Rapideye
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Rapideye »

It is Beto Surge Tubeless pump that has a burst tank to allow you to build air pressure within it and then let it out, filling the tyre quickly. As I said it then only took a few more pumps to get the pops. It stung a bit to buy - £60 - actually it stung alot to buy but I was in a hole, tyres off, sealant in them and I don't think I would've sorted it otherwise on my own. Going tubeless cost me £100 yesterday, What with buying sealant, valves, tubeless repair kit etc and then the pump. No doubt with more practice and know-how, the more experienced would have sorted it cheaper and quicker.
Lazarus
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Lazarus »

PAGING SCOTSROUTES I say again PAGING SCOTSROUTES
:lol:

I have never managed to get any tyre on with just a track pump and used a cheap pop bottle inflator then a fire extingusiher..I can set up a front mech though :cool:
ton
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by ton »

i am a 1st time tubeless user.
rode out on thursday and picked up 2 x small lengths of thorn bush in my front tyre. pulled the longer one out straight away. small amount of sealant came out, but sealed withing seconds. left the second one in the tyre.
once home got some tweezers and tried to get the second thorn out. no luck. went a bit deeper, too deep. massive air loss and covered in sealant. failed to get the thorn.
had a tubeless tool thing and a syringe thing to top sealant up with. so fitted the file thing to the tool, and inserted through the visible hole. fitted a rubber worm thing to the tool and pushed into the whole. it stayed in.
removed valve core with tool, topped up sealant, and pumped 40 psi into tyre. and it only bloody worked......... :-bd


whole thing took less than 5 minutes.
jobro
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by jobro »

Rapideye wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:22 am It is Beto Surge Tubeless pump that has a burst tank to allow you to build air pressure within it and then let it out, filling the tyre quickly. As I said it then only took a few more pumps to get the pops. It stung a bit to buy - £60 - actually it stung alot to buy but I was in a hole, tyres off, sealant in them and I don't think I would've sorted it otherwise on my own. Going tubeless cost me £100 yesterday, What with buying sealant, valves, tubeless repair kit etc and then the pump. No doubt with more practice and know-how, the more experienced would have sorted it cheaper and quicker.
There seems to be a huge variance in rim/tyre combinations I've found. Some work some are a real pain. The real buggers to get on the rim are the tyres that will often seal with a track pump. I've seen a few videos where people have shown how to line up the bead by pulling the tyre bead outwards towards the rim by hand before trying to inflate and using dilute washing up solution to facilitate engagement.
For my usual Hunt wheel/Rene Hurst tyres I always use a reservoir charger. Never managed it any other way. In fact, if middle of Lidl ever do their portable air compressor again, I'm going to get one as my lbs always manages easily with theirs.
jameso
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by jameso »

I have never managed to get any tyre on with just a track pump
Can be tricky, some combos just won't go. I refuse to use anything but a track pump to fit them on the basis that if I can't fit it with a track pump I'll have zero hope on the trail with a good hand pump. I have sworn at a few combos but also learned a couple of tricks - the inner tube to seat one side is a good one and (as above^) using a tyre lever to pull the bead on 1/2 way round each side generally works even trail-side.

What's really caught me out has been when the tape settles / dimples into the spoke holes under pressure over time, enough air leaks under the bead at those points to make it impossible to seat without a big rush of air. WTB's TCS2 prevents that via a solid strip over the holes and under the tape. Otherwise, a layer of electrical tape as prep solves it temporarily and has meant a hand pump could re-seat the tyre.
jobro
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by jobro »

the inner tube to seat one side is a good one
Oh yes. Forgot that bit. Always do that as well!
Lazarus
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Lazarus »

I refuse to use anything but a track pump to fit them on the basis that if I can't fit it with a track pump I'll have zero hope on the trail with a good hand pump.
makes sense and i understand your thinking but i would just put a tube in it with any trailside issue not fixed with a worm /dynaplug etc - that said it has only happened once and it was an unrepairable sidewall gash
Rapideye
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Rapideye »

No doubt I learnt a few lessons and this thread helps too. At the very least from the point of view that, unlike countless other times, it isn't just my own numptiness that is the issue.

We'll see how I fare when punctures happen and how easily or not they can be repaired. Ideally, like to experience it once before I head on a longer trip early June.

One newbie mistake I did notice when both tyres were done was not lining up the writing on the tyre to the valve 😞😢😭. To anyone I see when out and about, I apologise for bringing shame on the forum.
ScotRoutes
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by ScotRoutes »

jameso wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:56 am
Take your time, keep a strong and even tension on the tape as you apply it,
This was the main tip I got from one of the guys at WTB in setting up tubeless rims and tape. Start 20cm or more behind the valve hole, hold it there and apply the rest pulling it so hard and that it almost screetches coming off the tape roll. Plenty of tension and overlap when finishing. Put it on in warm conditions too, wheel and tape having been in a warm room a while ideally.
I always overlap opposite the valve hole. I just reckon it's easier to get a good seal if the valve is only contending with one layer of tape.
petemaz
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by petemaz »

Can you undo and reuse tape if it's had sealant on it? For what it is, Stan's stuff is awfy expensive. I've tried a couple of ways to mount a tyre, but having re-read this thread, want to try and redo the taping. I'll obviously reclean the rim, just want to reuse the tape if it looks in decent shape...?
ScotRoutes
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by ScotRoutes »

When you clean the rim after removing it, you're cleaning off some of the adhesive. I doubt it would stick well again. Even getting it off in one piece might be a challenge. TBH if it's currently holding pressure, I'd just leave it be.

I don't mind the cost of it as (IME) it lasts basically forever. Cheaper alternatives are available though. Many folk use Gorilla tape (though many of those use the wrong Gorilla Tape and end up with a sticky mess - you want the shiny, clear stuff). On my fatbike wheels, I just used 50mm electrical insulating tape, thrice round the rim (one left, one right, one down the middle). The one thing I will say is that shiny tape has the advantage when trying to seat the bead as it helps it slide into the right place.
petemaz
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by petemaz »

Thanks ScotRoutes
Rob S
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Rob S »

I'm not that experienced at it, sometimes a track pump works, sometimes not. (Can't imagine I'd have a hope with a mini-pump) One thing that does work for me though, is using the 12V inflator out of the car. Cheaper than a compressor or one of those air tanks. Unless it'seems homemade of course.
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RIP
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by RIP »

Very enjoyable this thread :-bd . I reckon if I started a thread about "going [staying :wink: ] tubed" it would be a one line post :grin: . Still, it all sounds very jolly and everyone seems to be having a hugely entertaining time so that's all good :smile: </troll-mode>.
Last edited by RIP on Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jameso
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by jameso »

ScotRoutes wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:25 pm
jameso wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:56 am
Take your time, keep a strong and even tension on the tape as you apply it,
This was the main tip I got from one of the guys at WTB in setting up tubeless rims and tape. Start 20cm or more behind the valve hole, hold it there and apply the rest pulling it so hard and that it almost screetches coming off the tape roll. Plenty of tension and overlap when finishing. Put it on in warm conditions too, wheel and tape having been in a warm room a while ideally.
I always overlap opposite the valve hole. I just reckon it's easier to get a good seal if the valve is only contending with one layer of tape.
That's a good point and I have had leaks from making a poor job of the hole for the valves, now use a good scalpel blade and take the time to do it properly. I saw it as a way to anchor the tape ends down and have a bit more tape thickness/toughness there but it shouldn't really need it if you're not leaving it on well past the sell by.
(I just looked up a WTB youtube on rim tape and they started opposite too)
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fatbikephil
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by fatbikephil »

If you are struggling to seat a tyre on the bead then WD40 or GT85 in there will help a lot. As it happens I was bunging some schwalbe g ones (non tubeless version) on the gravel bike the other day, with tubes, and they would not pop onto the bead, even at 60psi. I quick skoosh of WD and *Bang* on it went.
lune ranger
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by lune ranger »

ScotRoutes wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:52 pm Many folk use Gorilla tape (though many of those use the wrong Gorilla Tape and end up with a sticky mess - you want the shiny, clear stuff).
I use the ‘wrong Gorilla Tape’ ie. the thick black stuff and it works perfectly.
I assume almost any smooth, waterproof tape with good enough glue would do the job adequately.
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nagasaki45
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by nagasaki45 »

2nd attempt, now with Gorilla tape, was successful!

Found a neat trick along the way that might be worth sharing. After seating one side with an inner tube, I was pumping like crazy for an hour until realised there might be an easier way. Tried it and it worked immediately! Worked 1st attempt on the 2nd wheel as well so hopefully not just a fluke.

Start about 20cm from the valve, push the loose bead into place by folding the middle of the tyre inwards against the bead. You do that by placing your thumbs on the side of the rim at the non-seated bead, fingers on top of the tyre (at the tread), and push your fingers down and towards your thumbs. Obviously, you cannot seat the bead like that all around the tyre. If you try to go all the way around the last point you push will cause the bead on the opposite point to slide out towards the middle of the tape. Go around the wheel away from the valve until only ~30cm around the valve area are not pushed into the rim. Try to make this section as short as possible without causing the bead opposite the valve to slide away. Now, rotate the wheel to have the valve on top, a bit of soapy water on the open section, and inflate. Took just a few pumps to get the open section to pop out and the tyre to seat.

Is the explanation clear? Does it make sense at all? I can take some pictures (on my old still-tubed bike) for demonstration purposes if it will be helpful.
whitestone wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:50 am If it's hard to inflate get an inner tube and wrap this around the outside of the tyre along the centre, i.e rather than rim - inner tube -tyre you have rim - tyre - inner tube. This reduces the volume of air you need to get into the tyre to seat the beads.
After the 1st attempt this sounded very promising. Couldn't make the tube stay on the tyre though, unless completely deflated. In that case it did nothing. You've mentioned fat bikes, I have 2.4". Maybe it works better with wider tyres?
Cheeky Monkey wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:31 pm Not that it really matters, but dont you "seat" the bead rather than "sit" it :|
Immigrant here, and getting corrected is a great way to learn. So thanks for that!
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fatbikephil
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by fatbikephil »

Seating the bead around the valve is a good tip for awkward tyres - I do it like you describe. In fact if you can get a good length seated say 10" either side of the valve on both sides you don't need to do the inner tube thing first. Inner tube stretched round the tyre is my go to for things like Surly bud and lou (which aren't tubeless ready and a bit baggy), I've also used a wide strip of 26er innertube stretched round the tyre to seat a non tubeless gravel tyre. It crossed my mind to carry such a thing to be able to seat a tubeless tyre in the wilds if you have to pull it to fix a sidewall tear but want to keep tubeless.

This is a good guide, including the follow up vid on tubeless repairs.
https://bikepacking.com/plan/tips/tubel ... air-guide/
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faustus
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by faustus »

I've only been tubeless about a year, and had similar experiences to the above, and also tried different tricks already mentioned. I've also used the beto inflator a fair bit and it's generally been good but take jameso's point about being able to do it with a track pump. Although I would think a mini pump on the trail wouldn't necessarily seat if it was possible with a track pump, but I guess depends on the pump/volume? Only used a plug tool once and it did the job well, as with ton it was easy to top up sealant and re-pressure.

All-in, as someone who didn't have to deal with many punctures with tubes (and can fix them quickly), it's still been a good gain. Nice to know that trail stoppages are minimised and less worry about thorny hedge trimmings etc., and although there has been faff, i'm getting quicker and it's seemingly easier. Seems more expensive at the moment when compared to tubes, but that's mainly sealant prices.
Rapideye
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Rapideye »

Just when I thought I'd got the tubeless set-up sorted this happened...

...after going tubeless last weekend, all seemed good. Tyres stayed inflated over the weekend. In prep for a commute today, yesterday I went to check they were still ok and thought I'd add a bit more air. Front wheel completely fine, so topped it up a little. When taking off rear wheel cap, I'd obviously hadn't screwed the valve in properly so it came off too and the air came out. Put it back in and pumped it up. All good.

This morning both tyres were deflated. I can understand the rear wheel but why would the front wheel deflate? Pumped both up, spun the back wheel to spread sealant again and checked both when I got back home. Back tyre still firm but front tyre had gone back down, not fully.

Is it a thing that whenever a tubeless tyre is topped up that the sealant needs spun to coat the inside again?
Lazarus
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Lazarus »

My commuter tyres will go flat if left -about 2 weeks ish
IME it settles down after a bit but they will still go flat if i dont ride it or pay attention to them - not sure as well its my commuter so it always gets used but they definetly went flat during the first lockdown
[Is it a thing that whenever a tubeless tyre is topped up that the sealant needs spun to coat the inside again?
i always spin them/shake them after I do it- even if the bead was fine and it went back up with a track pump - is it essential? I have no idea but its notgoing todo any harm
Hamish
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Hamish »

While out for a ride it occurred to me that going tubeless has changed my behaviour. Whereas I used to avoid tracks and paths where there has been recent hawthorn hedge cutting or heavy bramble
/scrub clearance - that’s usually a lot round Gower, I just go where I want now and ignore the risk of thorns. I like that.
Rapideye
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Rapideye »

i always spin them/shake them after I do it- even if the bead was fine and it went back up with a track pump - is it essential? I have no idea but its not going to do any harm
Thanks. Inflated them yesterday and then went out for a ride. This morning they were still good. They might have lost a little pressure over the day but not too much.
DickieH
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by DickieH »

Nice tip for removing 'wrong' Gorilla tape... heat with hairdryer as you remove it. No mess.
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