Going tubeless...

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Bearlegged
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Bearlegged »

Pop a section of tyre off (as if you were starting to remove it) and look inside.
Having gone to this effort, it's usually worth adding at least a splash of sealant.

The other method is to forget about it, get a puncture, and think, "Hmm, why isn't my tyre sealing?" You'll then realise it's time to top up your sealant.
Lazarus
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Lazarus »

you can sometimes hear it slooshing around
you can see it where it has cured a puncture
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whitestone
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by whitestone »

nagasaki45 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:20 pm Some of you mentioned checking regularly how much sealant is still in there. How do you do that?
Take wheel off bike and let it stand for a few minutes to let the sealant settle in the bottom of the tyre rather than being spread around the tyre walls then give it a shake and you should hear it sloshing around.

To top up I have a syringe, remove valve core, attach syringe, squeeze syringe, remove, put valve core back in and reinflate.

Unless I'm swapping tyres then I don't pop the rim seal.
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nagasaki45
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by nagasaki45 »

Excellent! Thanks :-bd
Lazarus
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Lazarus »

also worth making sure your valves actually open/depress as they can gum up - you dont want to discover this on the trail where you may not have the tools to deal with this
ScotRoutes
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by ScotRoutes »

Remove wheel. Shake. Listen for sloshing.
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rufus748
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by rufus748 »

Pressures- been using this recently.
https://axs.sram.com/guides/tyre/pressure
Only major changes across my bikes were my road pressures, now running 73/75 down from late 80's. Roll just as fast and way more comfortable (albeit all the wheels are now running slightly lower pressures).
lune ranger
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by lune ranger »

I like that accept for 29+ pressures. The calculator quotes 22/24psi for 3” tyres on i49 rims for XC MTB. I think that’s pretty hard I’m running 13/15psi on the whole and sometimes think I could do with less:
It appears to be more sensible for narrower tyres.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
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Bearlegged
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Bearlegged »

On a related note, can anyone recommend an accurate pressure gauge for the 0-40 psi range?
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johnnystorm
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by johnnystorm »

Landslide wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:34 am On a related note, can anyone recommend an accurate pressure gauge for the 0-40 psi range?
I use an SKS digital which seems pretty good. However I've also got a Topeak high volume pump with a gauge that only reads from 0-30psi so for the most part I just use that.
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PaulB2
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by PaulB2 »

I need a gauge too, the one on my parktools track pump is useless, it doesn't register any pressure until the tyre is inflated so at least 10psi off. PLP did a video comparison last year and in no great surprise, he liked the expensive hipster option.

https://www.pathlesspedaled.com/2020/09 ... re-gauges/
petemaz
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by petemaz »

Just when it was all going so well.. another question, if I DON'T hear the popping sound when inflating (but the tyre looks mounted), however when I then deflate, and I DO hear the popping sound, is this good/bad??
ScotRoutes
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by ScotRoutes »

That can be found. If the bead stretches onto the sidewall slowly then you'll get no Pop. You'll know it's on correctly if the mould line on the sidewall is concentric with the rim.

Popping when releasing pressure is just the bead releasing from the rim.
petemaz
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by petemaz »

ScotRoutes wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:24 pm That can be found. If the bead stretches onto the sidewall slowly then you'll get no Pop. You'll know it's on correctly if the mould line on the sidewall is concentric with the rim.

Popping when releasing pressure is just the bead releasing from the rim.

That's great - thanks!
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nagasaki45
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by nagasaki45 »

After two hours of pumping in my attempt to go tubeless I must confess, it's the hardest cycling related workout I've ever done!
And it's only the front wheel... and I didn't manage to sit it yet :((

Edit: Stop crying, 10 minutes break, and I've managed to sit the tyre without sealant as a dry run. Now added sealant and I don't have any more energy to pump again.
lune ranger
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by lune ranger »

If I’m having as much trouble as it sounds like you are, this is my tactic:
Take the tubeless valve out and put in an inner tube. Inflate the tyre and leave it overnight.
Next day carefully take off one side of the tyre leaving the other side seated, refit the valve and reseat the side of the tyre you took off. Get the the bead and rim nice and wet with soapy water. Attempt to inflate with the valve core removed to maximise airflow. As you only have one bead to seat life should be a bit easier.
You may need to resort to a tubeless inflator - home made or purchased. You could also try CO2 but my personal opinion is that the disposable canisters are an abomination!
Good luck
If you are going through hell, keep going.
WSC
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nagasaki45
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by nagasaki45 »

So... managed to sit the bead with the sealant, but it's far from sealing. Lots of air comes out from around the valve and from various points along the rim.

Here's what I think went wrong:
- Checking online, the rim is specced as 26mm internal width. Nope, it's a 30mm internal width rim (as marked on the rim itself). Bought the 27mm stans tape which is too narrow.
- I don't think I have applied the tape well. It barely attaches to the rim and mainly holds by attaching back to itself in the overlap around the valve. Probably didn't tension it or clean the rim properly.

Took the tyre off. The tape was flipped at some point and not aligned at another. Guess it has to do with the messy application and with working too aggressively with the tyre lever. Now everything is clean for a 2nd attempt. Lost 100ml of sealant, some rim tape, and a lot of energy, no biggie.
lune ranger wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:41 pm If I’m having as much trouble as it sounds like you are, this is my tactic:
Take the tubeless valve out and put in an inner tube. Inflate the tyre and leave it overnight.
Next day carefully take off one side of the tyre leaving the other side seated, refit the valve and reseat the side of the tyre you took off. Get the the bead and rim nice and wet with soapy water. Attempt to inflate with the valve core removed to maximise airflow. As you only have one bead to seat life should be a bit easier.
You may need to resort to a tubeless inflator - home made or purchased. You could also try CO2 but my personal opinion is that the disposable canisters are an abomination!
Good luck
Thanks for the suggestion! I did inflate the tyre with a tube to set one side. Setting the 2nd side was still really hard.

A few more questions:
- How do you clean the rim? Is surgical spirit OK? Maybe bio ethanol?
- Have a feeling that it will work better with gorilla tape. Any thoughts about that?
- After sitting the tyre should it hold air without sealant?
- What's the reason for having a tube in overnight as lune ranger suggests? My tyres got ~150km on them, tubed, so no need to stretch them. Is it for pushing the tape into place?

Thanks!
Tom
lune ranger
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by lune ranger »

I have no reason for leaving it overnight except to make sure the bead I’m leaving on is stuck tight. I’ve left it a couple of hours and it been fine.
It sounds like your tape is sub-optimal, but you already know that.
People use Gorilla Tape, Tessa Tape or specific tubeless tape with equally good results. It’s best if placed across the whole rim, so tape a little wider than the internal width is best.
Take time to carefully apply it.
I’ve used meths, turps and vinegar to clean rims depending on what was easily at hand. Get a decent overlap as you finish the wrap. Some recommend 2 layers. I would do that with the Tessa tape but not Gorilla because it’s so thick.
Sounds like you are getting it to sit on the rim but not getting a seal. Hopefully a better tape job will sort it.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
WSC
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Cheeky Monkey
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

Warm the tyre up. Pliable rubber is more cooperative, imo.

If your tape is as sh1te as you describe (originally) then no wonder you've been struggling.

I know this guarantees my next set up will be an absolute beatch but I've just done one (Ranger / Hope Fortus 35) and it's been a piece of cake. I've not experienced the grief that seems to pop up so often. Then again, I knew Andy/Badger of tubeless-fame on STW "back in the day" 🤣

Occasionally I've found a soaped bead to help and taken the valve core out to ease inflation. Big tyres seem to need (unsurprisingly) a more generous hand with the sealant.

Not that it really matters, but dont you "seat" the bead rather than "sit" it :|
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whitestone
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by whitestone »

Getting the taping right is probably the critical part of tubeless.

Clean the rim, doesn't need to be spotless but the cleaner the better. I use Iso-propyl alcohol. Leave to dry.
The tape should be the same width as the external width of the rim. The reason for this is that it gets pulled down into the well of the rim so you need to allow for that.
Take your time, keep a strong and even tension on the tape as you apply it, the tape should sit in the bottom of the rim hook but not up the sides. Avoid getting any wrinkles in the tape, if so, go back and reapply that section.
Once you've applied the tape (with 150mm overlap) go round the wheel and push the tape down into the well of the rim either with your thumb or something like the back of a teaspoon.
Check the edges - if you have any tape riding up the side of the rim cut it away with a sharp knife angled at 45deg into the corner.
Make sure that the top surface of the tape is smooth, any blemish will act as a brake on the tyre bead being pushed out to the rim.
Make a very small hole for the valve then push the valve through from the inside and fit the locking collar tight enough so that you can't turn the valve around but you don't want it ultra tight.

Fit the tyre (aligning valve with logo :wink: )
Remove the valve core
Inflate. If it's hard to inflate get an inner tube and wrap this around the outside of the tyre along the centre, i.e rather than rim - inner tube -tyre you have rim - tyre - inner tube. This reduces the volume of air you need to get into the tyre to seat the beads.
Check that the tyre is seated evenly by looking at the mould line (check both sides).
Remove pump.
Add sealant through valve,
replace valve core.
Inflate to desired pressure.
Shake the tyre like you are panning for gold - this helps spread the sealant around and if there are any small gaps it should seal them at this point.

Go for a ride - this helps the last bit of teasing the tyre bead into the rim hook.

If you've done everything right then you shouldn't need sealant for the tyre to remain inflated, it's just there to deal with punctures, but usually there's a small gap or two that it needs to work on. Occasionally a tyre will have moulding tabs on the bead that cause problems, just carefully trim them off with a Stanley knife.

The inner tube round the outside trick will usually work when even a compressor/inflator won't - I've done it on fat bike tyres and just needed a track pump for example.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
petemaz
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by petemaz »

whitestone wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:50 am Getting the taping right is probably the critical part of tubeless.

Clean the rim, doesn't need to be spotless but the cleaner the better. I use Iso-propyl alcohol. Leave to dry.
The tape should be the same width as the external width of the rim. The reason for this is that it gets pulled down into the well of the rim so you need to allow for that.
Take your time, keep a strong and even tension on the tape as you apply it, the tape should sit in the bottom of the rim hook but not up the sides. Avoid getting any wrinkles in the tape, if so, go back and reapply that section.
Once you've applied the tape (with 150mm overlap) go round the wheel and push the tape down into the well of the rim either with your thumb or something like the back of a teaspoon.
Check the edges - if you have any tape riding up the side of the rim cut it away with a sharp knife angled at 45deg into the corner.
Make sure that the top surface of the tape is smooth, any blemish will act as a brake on the tyre bead being pushed out to the rim.
Make a very small hole for the valve then push the valve through from the inside and fit the locking collar tight enough so that you can't turn the valve around but you don't want it ultra tight.

Fit the tyre (aligning valve with logo :wink: )
Remove the valve core
Inflate. If it's hard to inflate get an inner tube and wrap this around the outside of the tyre along the centre, i.e rather than rim - inner tube -tyre you have rim - tyre - inner tube. This reduces the volume of air you need to get into the tyre to seat the beads.
Check that the tyre is seated evenly by looking at the mould line (check both sides).
Remove pump.
Add sealant through valve,
replace valve core.
Inflate to desired pressure.
Shake the tyre like you are panning for gold - this helps spread the sealant around and if there are any small gaps it should seal them at this point.

Go for a ride - this helps the last bit of teasing the tyre bead into the rim hook.

If you've done everything right then you shouldn't need sealant for the tyre to remain inflated, it's just there to deal with punctures, but usually there's a small gap or two that it needs to work on. Occasionally a tyre will have moulding tabs on the bead that cause problems, just carefully trim them off with a Stanley knife.

The inner tube round the outside trick will usually work when even a compressor/inflator won't - I've done it on fat bike tyres and just needed a track pump for example.
This is excellent, thanks very much 👍
Rapideye
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by Rapideye »

I've also gone tubeless today. A couple of weeks ago, I got a puncture and couldn't remove the tyre as it was so tight (a WTB Ranger). Since then, the ride hasn't felt right and I thought I'd damaged the wheel when removing the tyre. That and the brakes didn't seem to be as sharp as before. So, today was set aside to try and put things right. When taking the rim to the LBS, he tweaked the spokes made it good and then gave advice on going tubeless. I bought what I needed then to give it a try.

I basically did what Whitehouse has written. Between, Youtube clips and also LBS advice, I found it quite straightforward in essence but not without issues. I won't go over the steps, as others here who know a lot more than me have done that. The points I'd make is that I used gorilla tape, cleaned the rim using meths and made sure the tape was pressed as well as possible. I tried both front and back tyre slightly differently.

First the back one...all went well until I was trying to get get the air in as quick as possible and it was obvious straight away it wasn't going to work. My old pump just wasn't up to the job. The front tyre again went well and this time I put in an inner to get the beads set. This worked and I got nice pops as a result. Took out the tube, left one side set and tried again - not a hope. Tried a CO2 canister and this didn't help either although this was more my fault, I think.

Ended up going back to the LBS and ended up buying a new fancy pump, the type that stores the air which is then released. This made all the difference. Not freakin' cheap though but with this it worked a treat and then a few more pumps until those lovely pops sounded.

Both tyres have stayed inflated too. So all good. But bloody hell, that workout pumping that pump first time around to try and get it set was murder.
ScotRoutes
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by ScotRoutes »

ScotRoutes wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:39 pm I took the tyres off my old wheels today and re-fitted them to my new wheels. The tyres still had fluid in and I managed to transfer them with it in situ. The tyres re-seated with the track pump and a couple of minutes of the Stans shake had them completely sealed. Tools used; one tyre lever, one pump. It's not always going to be so simple but it's rarely difficult.
One week on and the tyres haven't lost any pressure.
jameso
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by jameso »

Take your time, keep a strong and even tension on the tape as you apply it,
This was the main tip I got from one of the guys at WTB in setting up tubeless rims and tape. Start 20cm or more behind the valve hole, hold it there and apply the rest pulling it so hard and that it almost screetches coming off the tape roll. Plenty of tension and overlap when finishing. Put it on in warm conditions too, wheel and tape having been in a warm room a while ideally.
petemaz
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Re: Going tubeless...

Post by petemaz »

Rapideye wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:37 pm
Ended up going back to the LBS and ended up buying a new fancy pump, the type that stores the air which is then released. This made all the difference. Not freakin' cheap though but with this it worked a treat and then a few more pumps until those lovely pops sounded.
Can I ask what pump you got? After my good start, it's all been downhill for me. I've been using the DIY bottle trick to bed the tyres, but it's very temperamental..
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