What would you do...

[Keith74]

They are normally really good with warranty things having had a few frames replaced by them.

Looks at the pictures IMO I would guess the mech or chain has impacted that but hard to tell not being there. Must say in all my ham fisted gear changes I have never snapped a hanger changing gear.

If it was me I would be happy with the 50% off frame and either build it up and cycle it or sell it on.

[jameso]

Broken frames are

I expect AK are right when they say it's the strongest frame they have, good carbon frames seem to perform well on the ISO frame tests. ISO tests are limited in what they test for unfortunately and aren't great indicator of real-world toughness or impact resistance beyond a really obvious front-end impact etc, so to be fair, a break like that doesn't undermine what they said about general strength.

As Steven said, it's often very hard to know why a carbon part broke as it the whole area usually ends up such a splintery mess. If it was a bent or cracked metal frame you'd be more likely to see some tell-tale signs I think.

I expect you could repair it which would be in line with AK's general do good things approach. Save it from landfill. Looks like a nice easy shape to fill and over-wrap and they might be able to recommend someone who could do it?

[SeannyD]

Hi Shaf, Dan’s photo on today’s ride thread looks to me like there's a chip out of the paint/carbon after it happened. I can see a black line too further forward but unsure on that one.

[jameso]

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topi ... on-repair/

some repairers mentioned in a STW thread

[redefined_cycles]

Hi Shaf, Dan’s photo on today’s ride thread looks to me like there's a chip out of the paint/carbon after it happened. I can see a black line too further forward but unsure on that one.

Thanks for that Sean. Didn't realise he'd managed to get some good pics from atraight after the mech broke (thought he was too much concentrated* on schooling me how to break/rejoin a chain properly ).

* That's different from 'concentrating too much' by the way...

[redefined_cycles]

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topi ... on-repair/

some repairers mentioned in a STW thread

I've emailed Stu already to see if he can overlay a BB carbon pole wrap over it all. He'll hopefully understand stress risers etc etc much better than me too so might get another five years out of it. Will look cool with a nice Stu carbon pole holding the seat/chainstay bridge together

[redefined_cycles]

Broken frames are

I expect AK are right when they say it's the strongest frame they have, good carbon frames seem to perform well on the ISO frame tests. ISO tests are limited in what they test for unfortunately and aren't great indicator of real-world toughness or impact resistance beyond a really obvious front-end impact etc, so to be fair, a break like that doesn't undermine what they said about general strength.

As Steven said, it's often very hard to know why a carbon part broke as it the whole area usually ends up such a splintery mess. If it was a bent or cracked metal frame you'd be more likely to see some tell-tale signs I think.

I expect you could repair it which would be in line with AK's general do good things approach. Save it from landfill. Looks like a nice easy shape to fill and over-wrap and they might be able to recommend someone who could do it?

Yes... this makes proper sense now thanks James, Steven, Duncqn, Stu and everyone else... Have emailed the frame repair place in Cheshire and either him or Stu will hopefully get back to me soon enough. Looking forward to trying to keep it out of landfill...

[Pirahna]

I'd be looking for a replacement or refund. It's up to Sonder to prove it's your fault, check out your rights. Don't suppose you paid by credit card.

[Dave Barter]

I'd urge you to continue the dialogue with Alpkit rather than the internet. It's becoming part of modern culture that as soon as we don't get the result we want from customer service we go to the forums/twitter/facebook anything to denigrate the company until they acquiesce. I volunteer at an outdoor pool which has a car park and we are hammered weekly on trip advisor by those who get (legitimate) fines and want redress. Yet, if they approach us and make a case we almost always refund. That is unless they've gone to the internet first and our attitude changes.

Alpkit are a good bunch, I suspect under some pressure at the moment. In his response to you I saw the word "appears" which is an invitation to go back with more information. I'd go down that route, get into a conversation and they may well up the opening offer of 50% off. Just be aware that going public burns bridges. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. In my view it works better with the big boys and their anonymous customer service departments.

[redefined_cycles]

Thanks Dave and I agree. I definitely don't want to smead any company, let alone AK, I wasn't trying to go public as such (that would've been Twitter, right) and that's why I've kept the title clean.

It really was/is a legit question and I wouldn't want to pursue them if I was asking for too much. Thankfully a few things have been clarified for me (from the frame engineers here) about what/how 'strongest' is actually defined in terms of frame strength...

I agree, they are a lovely bunch and I've already got in touch with a frame repair place as well as Stu (might be that his inbox us full though or he wouldn't wanna mucky his hands with a 1200g frame )...

[redefined_cycles]

Quick update. Emailed one of the reputable carbon repairers and he's of the opinion (as I'd expected) that its too close to the dropouts for a reliable repair. Will give AK a couple of weeks to get back to me but if they don't I'll probably be taking a hammer to it.

If anyone wants it and wants to make me an offer during that time then feel free. You may have to convince me with a tiny story of how you plan to keep yourself safe on it or otherwise what other plans you have for it. It really is a thing of beauty, just a shame it couldn't handle the force of a chain-tug/mech break

Stan... RIP

[jameso]

I'd be looking for a replacement or refund. It's up to Sonder to prove it's your fault, check out your rights. Don't suppose you paid by credit card.

If it's down to SOGA rights, it's the manufacturer to show it's not faulty up to 6 mths after purchase, after that point it's the owner's responsibility to show it is faulty.

[Cheeky Monkey]

I'd be looking for a replacement or refund. It's up to Sonder to prove it's your fault, check out your rights. Don't suppose you paid by credit card.

If it's down to SOGA rights, it's the manufacturer to show it's not faulty up to 6 mths after purchase, after that point it's the owner's responsibility to show it is faulty.

My understanding too.

I think AK have made a half decent first offer but Shaf ought to send them frame and ask for them to inspect. Worst case is cheap deal offered persists or might make better one once seen.

Personally I think plaggy frames are pony, but I am a Ti hooer so am bound to get my comeuppance

[redefined_cycles]

yeah.. i was against carbon bikes (except Santa Cruz obviously) for almost lots and lots and lots (that's alot) of years. Then I bought my first and drilled a hole in it and bent the mech hanger a couple of times and it kept on living the bloomin Canyon.

Yes, that's quite a good thought CM but I've emailed one of the members on here already who might have fun with examining it. I doubt AK are interested. Not becuase they're a bad company but cos they've already stated it appears to be impact damage and I don't think I'm able to argue against it. It definitely wasn't rock impact as there were no loose rocks when the mech hanger broke. We was going uphill slowly...

1200g frames... Who needs em anyway

[ledburner]

Hi shaf, I can confirm I saw Shaf down shift then stall on a cobbly climb After Leyzing clough, then dismount, the push the bike when he realised the rear mech was damaged.
A little mild cursing may also have taken place.. The bike was laid on its side in the grassy tussocks for Initial inspection. It was then pushed about 100yards to a more suitable location to sort out a repair. A video of some of the repair, at theWessenden head head dam access gate/hard standing
Dan

[ScotRoutes]

Is it possible that the frame was damaged before the mech problem - and in fact caused the latter?

[Bearbonesnorm]

'd urge you to continue the dialogue with Alpkit rather than the internet. It's becoming part of modern culture that as soon as we don't get the result we want from customer service we go to the forums/twitter/facebook anything to denigrate the company until they acquiesce. I volunteer at an outdoor pool which has a car park and we are hammered weekly on trip advisor by those who get (legitimate) fines and want redress. Yet, if they approach us and make a case we almost always refund. That is unless they've gone to the internet first and our attitude changes.

Alpkit are a good bunch, I suspect under some pressure at the moment. In his response to you I saw the word "appears" which is an invitation to go back with more information. I'd go down that route, get into a conversation and they may well up the opening offer of 50% off. Just be aware that going public burns bridges. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. In my view it works better with the big boys and their anonymous customer service departments.

These are very wise words and not just in this instance but generally. If someone damages a pole, even if it's through standing on it or something similar, I will always repair or replace it FOC (just done one for a chap from Holland, he's had it 5 years) but if someone visits the internet first, they can generally GFT.

[redefined_cycles]

'd urge you to continue the dialogue with Alpkit rather than the internet. It's becoming part of modern culture that as soon as we don't get the result we want from customer service we go to the forums/twitter/facebook anything to denigrate the company until they acquiesce. I volunteer at an outdoor pool which has a car park and we are hammered weekly on trip advisor by those who get (legitimate) fines and want redress. Yet, if they approach us and make a case we almost always refund. That is unless they've gone to the internet first and our attitude changes.

Alpkit are a good bunch, I suspect under some pressure at the moment. In his response to you I saw the word "appears" which is an invitation to go back with more information. I'd go down that route, get into a conversation and they may well up the opening offer of 50% off. Just be aware that going public burns bridges. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. In my view it works better with the big boys and their anonymous customer service departments.

These are very wise words and not just in this instance but generally. If someone damages a pole, even if it's through standing on it or something similar, I will always repair or replace it FOC (just done one for a chap from Holland, he's had it 5 years) but if someone visits the internet first, they can generally GFT.

Thanks Stu. Hopefully noone sees me as trying to denigrate AK with this here post. Partly why I kept the name out of the title. I was genuinely wondering what other people thought/would do and it's helped clarify the issue from an outsider perspective...

[Bearbonesnorm]

Thanks Stu. Hopefully noone sees me as trying to denigrate AK with this here post. Partly why I kept the name out of the title. I was genuinely wondering what other people thought/would do and it's helped clarify the issue from an outsider perspective...

Sorry Shaf, I wasn't trying to imply or suggest that you were. I was simply agreeing with Dave's point on a larger and more general basis.

[redefined_cycles]