Tent on rack + panniers / something else?

[nagasaki45]

Hi all,

I slowly get into bikepacking and yet again will appreciate your help. Now it's about packing gear on the bike

I cycle mainly with my girlfriend. Her setup is kind of sorted (drybag in handlebar harness for clothes and sleeping system and carradice saddlebag for everything else). Except for a full frame bag I struggle to figure out mine. We share a 3 person tent, cooking kit (2L pot), food, electronics, etc. Everything except clothes and sleeping equipment really. So far I've used a rack with the tent strapped on top, and either my sleeping gear + clothes in a dry bag on top of that, or borrowed panniers. With the dry bag I had no easy accessible storage on the bike, so unstrapping and restrapping evething to get a warm layer out took ~20 minutes With the panniers I carried a larger portion of the shared equipment (food and electronics), and there was still a lot of room. This summer we will keep cycling together but I also plan to cycle quite a bit by myself. I might slowly start to acquire camping gear for solo traveling (smaller tent and cooking kit) but need your advice on carrying the gear mentioned above for both our shared trips and my solo adventures.

To give you some idea of future plans: King Alfred's way, a few overnighters, maybe something in Wales, and maybe South Downs Way together. Solo plans include the "maybes", plus a longer trip like a section of the Great North Trail or the GTMC in France. I will ride a 29er Sonder Frontier, and my partner a hybrid w/ front suspension and 40-45mm tyres.

Options I had in mind:
- A rack with small panniers. 10-15 litres each will do. The tent goes on top. One pannier for sleeping system, the other for clothes, cooking kit, and electronics. Food and repair kit in the frame bag, which will have some extra space.
- The tent goes in a handlebar harness, and something for the back. I have some hypothetical issues with this setup: 1) there's no storage on the bike that is quickly accessible, unless "the back" is a carradice-style saddlebag. 2) It will be hard to pack things like electronics / cooking kit into a bikepacking seatbag, isn't it? 3) If I go for carradice-style solution I think I will still need a rack. My partner started with her carradice on bagman support and it wasn't as stable and convenient as the rack she is currently using.
- Maybe, the tent can go in the frame bag. But then what? Carradice on the back, on a rack, for ease of access and weirdly shaped gear + handlebar roll for clothes? If there's a rack involved, shouldn't I just go the panniers route?

BTW, I've tried the carradice at the front this weekend and it was a complete failure. Was riding on the wheel. It's a 20L version if I remember correctly. Maybe a smaller bag will work.

Is there anyone else here that cycle with a 3 person tent? How do you carry it? Any other suggestion will be highly appreciated!

Oh... And thanks for reading all of this. Ended up longer than I thought (as always).

Cheers,
Tom

[Asposium]

Hi,

When I have cycled with a friend ((“K” below)) we have either had a tent each, or shared mine.

Now, “a tent each” will likely be roughly equivalent to half of your three person tent shares between you.

So, can the tent be shared.

There after a liberal shake of TLS.
===

I imagine a 2litre pot is difficult to pack.

Is such a pot necessary?

I take occasionally take a 600ml pot that is a good size for the thermarest to fit inside.
This combined with the MSR windburner Seems ideal.

If you “need” such a large pot how about the folding pots from sea to summit?

https://www.seatosummit.co.uk/products/ ... -28-litre/

We have the x mugs, work brilliantly.
===

For a “warm layer” or rain coat.
Strap it to the outside of the bar bag, or the outside of the saddle bag.

I tend not to open the bar bag until “camp”, unless we need the water purifier during the day for a bottle refill (see below)
===

We generally have....
Bars (me): tent, sleeping gear ((thermarest, sleeping bags, inflatable pillow, sleeping tights, ear plugs)), MSR guardian water purifier
Bars (K): Tent ((if using her own)), sleeping gear.
((I tend to carry the entire tent when sharing. It only weighs 900g))

Frame (me): half frame bag, two water bottles with quick access stuff, mainly food.
Pump, because it’s long.
((Soon to be a full frame bag))
Frame (K): full frame bag with food

Fork legs (K): water bottle each side
((Soon I will do the same, when have full frame bag))

Saddle bag (me): common spares, inner tubes, food, toiletries, electronics, second gas cylinder
Saddle bag (K): extra food, MSR windburner ((has cylinder inside)), toiletries, extra clothes ((she feels the cold)), inner tubes ((different wheel sizes))

Rucksack (me): overflow food, “delicates” ((phone)), “valuables” ((car key, joint money / cards, etc))
Rucksack (K): none, she doesn’t carry a rucksack.
===

Looking to ride the king Alfred way over Easter (maybe), when are you riding?
Then (hopefully) the SDW with K later in summer.

[Hamish]

I often use a rack with small panniers, particularly if I am carrying a winter tent (Nallo 2 GT) and all the cooking stuff for two. For many here I suspect that is considered overkill. It means though that we can be very comfy on a long trip in the winter and I really don’t like heavy loads on the front.

[Lazarus]

depends on how big the three man tent is volume and weight
Mine is about 1.5 kg and handily splits into poles and the rest so 750 g each and not that large volume wise either[ 6- 8 litres at a guess - But I have two kids so needed a three berth and two vestibules and entrances/exit.

For more space the answers are
Saddlepack
Top tube bag [ handy for what is needed for bike- tools tube and sweets in mine mainly tbh}
I also ride with a camelbak bumbag so this has space for water and anything essential l would need or easy to hand [ tools. food, money, windproof in summer, gloves -they are a bit marmite though so yu may not like em.

I used to carry for me and two kids and once you get beyond too much stuff [ for whatever reason ] panniers make more sense
It really depends on how much comfort you want but bikepacking IMHO is more about having enough to survive rather than comfort

[nagasaki45]

I imagine a 2litre pot is difficult to pack.

Is such a pot necessary?

For me solo? Definitely not. For the two of us? I would say yes. Might be a bit roomy, but not too much. I don't think we will get away with something smaller than 1.5L. As with the rest of the gear, might consider buying separate equipment for solo traveling over time, but need to figure out how to carry the gear-for-2 we already have. Thanks for suggesting the folding pots though. Will keep them in mind!

For a “warm layer” or rain coat.
Strap it to the outside of the bar bag, or the outside of the saddle bag.

I tend not to open the bar bag until “camp”, unless we need the water purifier during the day for a bottle refill (see below)

The warm layer was an example. There are some bits of gear that I regularly reach for during the ride. Water filter, extra layers, repair kit, and also the cooking kit and food. We often have porridge for lunch, and do mid-day tea breaks. Hence wanting some easily accessible bags.

Bars (me): tent, sleeping gear ((thermarest, sleeping bags, inflatable pillow, sleeping tights, ear plugs)), MSR guardian water purifier
Bars (K): Tent ((if using her own)), sleeping gear.
((I tend to carry the entire tent when sharing. It only weighs 900g))

So you fit both a tent for 2 and your sleeping gear in at the front? Thought it's either or. What gear do you use to get that capacity?

Frame (me): half frame bag, two water bottles with quick access stuff, mainly food.
Pump, because it’s long.
((Soon to be a full frame bag))
Frame (K): full frame bag with food

Fork legs (K): water bottle each side
((Soon I will do the same, when have full frame bag))

Same here. Full frame bag and water bottles on the fork

Looking to ride the king Alfred way over Easter (maybe), when are you riding?

Plan is to go over Easter as well. PM sent

Thanks!
Tom

[nagasaki45]

I often use a rack with small panniers, particularly if I am carrying a winter tent (Nallo 2 GT) and all the cooking stuff for two. For many here I suspect that is considered overkill. It means though that we can be very comfy on a long trip in the winter and I really don’t like heavy loads on the front.

This is the setup I'm leaning towards at the moment, mainly because it will make packing rather easy with our existing gear. But I do worry it might be an overkill, hence this thread

[nagasaki45]

depends on how big the three man tent is volume and weight
Mine is about 1.5 kg and handily splits into poles and the rest so 750 g each and not that large volume wise either[ 6- 8 litres at a guess - But I have two kids so needed a three berth and two vestibules and entrances/exit.

Ours is the Vaude Taurus 3P, which is 2.75kg and, if my math is correct, ~15L. I guess it's massive in terms of bikepacking BTW, I'm not necessarily looking for splitting the shared gear between us. I'm more comfortable on the bike, and don't mind carrying significantly more weight.

For more space the answers are
Saddlepack
Top tube bag [ handy for what is needed for bike- tools tube and sweets in mine mainly tbh}
I also ride with a camelbak bumbag so this has space for water and anything essential l would need or easy to hand [ tools. food, money, windproof in summer, gloves -they are a bit marmite though so yu may not like em.

I do have a bumbag that I use regularly on day rides, and I quite like it. It looks like all these options are more related to conveniently store things on the bike rather than capacity, isn't it? We also do quite a lot of breaks, so getting a snack from a bag off the bike is not a problem.

I used to carry for me and two kids and once you get beyond too much stuff [ for whatever reason ] panniers make more sense
It really depends on how much comfort you want but bikepacking IMHO is more about having enough to survive rather than comfort

Yeah... will have to think how much stuff to trim down. I don't think we take too much stuff, just our gear is rather heavy and bulky.

Thanks for the recommendations! Lots to think about.

[whitestone]

If you do a search (but I'll be honest and can't think of a suitable phrase to actually search for) then there's been fairly regular "what kit do you take" type threads which should give you some ideas. I think most of us, when starting down this particular rabbit hole, have been in your situation of trying to fit "car camping" kit onto a bike. It's not really the weight of stuff that's the problem but the bulk.

Over time and as things wear out you replace the "normal" stuff with super light, super compact kit and once you've been discharged from the renal unit you get to use it.

But before you get to that point, consider what not to take, after all the lightest and most compact kit is that which you leave at home. Stu wrote this a couple of years ago - https://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.c ... ystem.html which should give you some ideas. Separate needs from wants and try and have items perform multiple uses. There'll be some things you just won't compromise on so look in other areas to compensate. This assumes summer conditions - proper winter isn't the time to cut corners.

Nothing wrong with a rack but you may find it limiting on more technical ground. All depends really, for riding on estate/forestry tracks rack and panniers wouldn't be a problem, riding for miles through heather on faint singletrack you'd be ripping them off in frustration.

The other (or perhaps among other) things is trying to replicate home activities rather than embrace the difference of doing things in a manner more suited to going lightweight. For cooking consider dehydrated meals. It means you only need to boil water, pour it into the bag and wait. No washing up needed and you just need a mug/pan big enough to boil the required amount of water. So your 2L pot becomes a 600ml mug with a 10-20g meths stove along with windshield, lighter, a few tea bags and maybe sachets of porridge inside.

Here's my bike set up for a summer three day/two night trip around the Yorkshire Dales. Up front is sleeping stuff, including my half of a two man tent (Big Agnes Copper Spur) - it's the pale coloured bag behind the red one. The stem cells have trail food and camera. The Jerry Can and the top tube bag have spares, tools and things like water filter. The seat bag is mostly food, some clothes. As the food was consumed some items got moved around to compensate. At a guess there's 15L of storage, certainly much less than 20L



The expensive stuff there is the tent, sleeping quilt and sleeping mat. Everything else is relatively cheap or even homemade.

[benp1]

I find the challenge with carrying stuff for bikepacking, the main issue is volume, not weight. High volume things are hard to carry with bikepacking bags. Low volume also tends to be low weight, not always, so low volume packing and TLS means easier packing

If you're carrying a tent that doesn't pack down well and a 3 litre pot, bikepacking bags won't work as easily as panniers. Obviously people use bikepacking bags with that sort of kit, but it's a faff. My 3l pot is huge, I honestly don't know which bikepacking bag I'd put it in if I had to, even though it's still quite light.

In your situation, I'd probably go with panniers, stuff strapped onto a rack, or bikepacking bags with bulky stuff in a rucksack

[Asposium]

Bars (me): tent, sleeping gear ((thermarest, sleeping bags, inflatable pillow, sleeping tights, ear plugs)), MSR guardian water purifier
Bars (K): Tent ((if using her own)), sleeping gear.
((I tend to carry the entire tent when sharing. It only weighs 900g))

So you fit both a tent for 2 and your sleeping gear in at the front? Thought it's either or. What gear do you use to get that capacity?

Will add photos later.

Tent is a terra nova solar photon 2 (K and I are perfectly content sharing this tent, though doesn’t like high winds, not surprising considering it weighs 900g for a two person tent. Porch has sufficient space for our gear)
Plus ground sheet protector
Sleeping bag is a mountain equipment xero (believe that’s right)
Sleeping mat is a thermarest neoair lite
Pillow is exped
Ear plugs in a little case
Toothbrush and toothpaste
Water purifier is an an MSR guardian (only when needed)
Bag is a salsa exp dry bag. (Not sure volume)

[Bearbonesnorm]

Personally and assuming I was riding rigid, I'd be inclined to go with a front rather than rear rack. I much prefer how a bike handles when weighted toward the front. Something like a Blackburn Outpost perhaps. Probably wouldn't use panniers but simply use the rack as a lashing point.

[nagasaki45]

Thanks for all the suggestions! They definitely help organising my thoughts.

Some of you mentioned TLS. I don't think we can reduce much. On top of the gear marked as essential on Stu's TLS blog post I carry a hydro flask, a battery pack, toilet paper, a leatherman, one plate, and boxer shorts and a t-shirt for the night. That's it really. Will definitely drop the plate if I cycle solo, but don't think there's much more to leave behind.

Thanks Bearbonesnorm and Asposium for the comments re front load and handlebar harness. It sounds like it can carry more than I expected at first.

If I read between the lines correctly, it sounds like a rear rack by itself is not the issue, and that's the panniers that are less suited for bikepacking. Am I right?

All of these made me think of looking for a handlebar harness for my sleeping gear and night clothes, and a rack for the 3p tent. I should have a rack for that (it won't take panniers though), so the initial investment is still quite low. When traveling together with my girlfriend she will carry the large pot in her carradice (as she already does), and for my solo rides I will look for smaller cooking kit to fit in my full frame bag together with everything I might need mid-ride.

Assuming a tent on the rack + a full frame bag, here are two possibilities again.
- small panniers (20-25L for the pair). Pros: Fits all of our existing gear. Cons: Doesn't ride as well on single tracks; Higher initial cost (new rack and panniers); Investing in gear I might want to change as I replace other bits over time.
- handlebar harness / bag (15-20L). Pros: Hopefully more balanced on the bike, especially off-road; Lower initial cost; More future proof as I slowly upgrade other bits of gear. Cons: Will require a new pot to fit into frame bag for solo rides.

I guess a 8cm tall pot like this one can easily fit into a full non-fat frame bag, right?

EDIT: Actually, a smaller cooking kit can also fit into a stem bag. So no much issue here.

Thanks again everybody!

[Borderer]

My son and I carry a 3 man tent between us for long trips and it's fine. He is now capable of carrying his own kit but when he was smaller I was able to carry more of the weight/bulk and still use bikepacking bags, as others have said, it is about finding low bulk solutions. It is perfectly do-able though.

[DickieH]

Talking rugged racks and small panniers I've spent the winter testing my Thule pack n ride rack, modified wider to fit my fatbike. Rock solid. I've now added a Topeak MTX track to it for a 22l expanding trunk bag and fold out panniers.

It all works great and allows full gnar dropper post deployment.

[BigdummySteve]

EDIT: Actually, a smaller cooking kit can also fit into a stem bag. So no much issue here.

I carry my 400ml ti mug in a stem bag, as an additional bonus a standard water bottle fits in the pot, this makes extracting the bottle easier