"What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

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"What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by RIP »

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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

That is probably one of the best 'what is this 'ere bikepacking all about' type pieces I've read in a good while. Concise, to the point and no romantic nonsense. :-bd
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by RIP »

Agreed. Plus some useful links at the bottom with kitlists etc (including from our very own JamesO).

All the bikes and gear (and riders!) in the photos look strangely clean though it must be said :smile: . Obviously not taken on any routes I've ever been on then :smile: .
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by thenorthwind »

RIP wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:01 pm All the bikes and gear (and riders!) in the photos look strangely clean though it must be said :smile: . Obviously not taken on any routes I've ever been on then :smile: .
I can only assume the lady in the first photo has carried her bike all the way there from home to keep it spotless. Possibly she's using the stream as a route in order to avoid mud, rather than crossing it as it appears.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by JackT »

I’m not sure this is true or even makes much sense:
The major difference seems to come down to ethos. Cycle tourists use their bikes as a means to travel and experience new places; bikepackers want to get as much enjoyment from riding their bike over multiple days as possible.
Isn’t bikepacking also very much about travel and experiencing new places? Aren’t cycle tourists also pleasure seekers at heart? As for cycle touring requiring large amounts of luggage, where does credit card touring /youth hosteling fit into the picture?

Elsewhere I recall Stuart referring to the level of roughing it v. travelling with more creature comforts as a differentiator, and this makes more sense to me. And this links to ride duration. What you’re happy to tolerate for a few nights may not be how you want to live for six months. There are exceptions, and lots of people do shorter, weekend bike tours as well, but really long, multiple week and multiple month bikepacking trips are quite rare - record attempts and extreme vagabonding. While, as been noted, the Alpkit models are all sparkly clean, getting everything splattered in mud and grit is more part of the whole bikepacking experience than it is for touring.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Elsewhere I recall Stuart referring to the level of roughing it v. travelling with more creature comforts as a differentiator, and this makes more sense to me. And this links to ride duration. What you’re happy to tolerate for a few nights may not be how you want to live for six months. There are exceptions, and lots of people do shorter, weekend bike tours as well, but really long, multiple week and multiple month bikepacking trips are quite rare - record attempts and extreme vagabonding. While, as been noted, the Alpkit models are all sparkly clean, getting everything splattered in mud and grit is more part of the whole bikepacking experience than it is for touring.
I believe there's a difference in attitude between the two things. In my mind touring often involves a destination. It might be a campsite at the end of the day or a specific point at the end of a week but there will often be a focus on reaching 'somewhere'. Conversely, I see bikepacking as an undertaking where the journey itself is more important, which tends to allow greater freedom and choice. The act of travelling lightly simply helps facilitate that freedom.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by JackT »

I dunno if a touring or bikepacking mindset is more freeing or choiceful. The popularity of fixed itineraries / ITTs / events in bikepacking suggests that at least some bikepackers are happy to give up a measure of freedom in pursuit of some other objective.

If you’re choosing to stay only in official accommodation rather than wild camping, then it helps to know where you’re going each day, at least by the time the sun starts going down. But there are plenty of wild camping cycle tourists out there who make it up as they ride along. If your bike allows you to venture off road this certainly increases the options.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

The popularity of fixed itineraries / ITTs / events in bikepacking suggests that at least some bikepackers are happy to give up a measure of freedom in pursuit of some other objective.
I'm sure they are Jack and I wouldn't dispute that.
If you’re choosing to stay only in official accommodation rather than wild camping, then it helps to know where you’re going each day, at least by the time the sun starts going down.
And that sacrifices freedom as reaching your destination each day becomes the objective.
But there are plenty of wild camping cycle tourists out there who make it up as they ride along.
Indeed, perhaps it could be argued that they're bikepackers.
If your bike allows you to venture off road this certainly increases the options.
Yep, I certainly believe that your bike shouldn't be a limiting factor in where you can choose to ride. It should facilitate and not hinder exploration.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by thenorthwind »

JackT wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:44 pm I’m not sure this is true or even makes much sense:
The major difference seems to come down to ethos. Cycle tourists use their bikes as a means to travel and experience new places; bikepackers want to get as much enjoyment from riding their bike over multiple days as possible.
Isn’t bikepacking also very much about travel and experiencing new places? Aren’t cycle tourists also pleasure seekers at heart? As for cycle touring requiring large amounts of luggage, where does credit card touring /youth hosteling fit into the picture?
Actually that was the bit that made most sense to me, and I was surprised I hadn't thought of it like that before. I would say "yes" to either of your questions, but that distinction seems sensible: bikepacking being more about the riding itself (riding more technical terrain, hence the need for less luggage more evenly distributed) and touring being more about the places you go to, through, or past (though not to say that the riding itself isn't a significant part of the experience). Of course there's plenty of grey area and overlap.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by JackT »

Actually that was the bit that made most sense to me, and I was surprised I hadn't thought of it like that before. I would say "yes" to either of your questions, but that distinction seems sensible: bikepacking being more about the riding itself (riding more technical terrain, hence the need for less luggage more evenly distributed) and touring being more about the places you go to, through, or past (though not to say that the riding itself isn't a significant part of the experience). Of course there's plenty of grey area and overlap.
I see what you mean. Perhaps a parallel here is the distinction I've seen made between hill walking and mountaineering. A hill walker just enjoys being in the mountains, the solitude, the views, the nature, etc whereas mountaineer - as well as enjoying being in the mountains - is very much motivated by the risk and danger inherent in the act of climbing and the sense of accomplishment that comes from summiting / success / not getting killed.

Maybe, compared to the cycle tourist, the bikepacker is more into the gnar, the technical challenge of the trail, taking on the risk of crashing and injury, the endurance athleticism, the whole adrenaline side of the journey? That certainly corresponds with the existence of the competitive branch of bikepacking which is not really part of the cycle touring mindset, with the exception of a few extreme outliers like Ian Hibell.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by shutuplegs »

The racing element is an interesting point. Can one race at cycle touring? I would say probably not. Can one race while bikepacking? well yes, there’s a whole load of that.
Then there’s The *insert county/country/continent here* Divide side of things, they would appear to be bikepacking, irrespective of the road surface raced upon.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by JackT »

shutuplegs wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:31 pm The racing element is an interesting point. Can one race at cycle touring? I would say probably not. Can one race while bikepacking? well yes, there’s a whole load of that.
Then there’s The *insert county/country/continent here* Divide side of things, they would appear to be bikepacking, irrespective of the road surface raced upon.
I don't know about the other Divides, but the Canda to Mexico one, on which the Tour Divide race is ridden, is based on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route, a route devised by the Adventure Cycling Association, which describes it as an "off road cycle route". A cycling version of the Pacific Crest Trail or Appalachian Trail for long distance hill walkers. The idea of racing the route, i.e. the Tour Divide bike race, came a decade later. The ACA's roots are on the touring side of things, evolving as it did from Bikecentennial in the 1970s. I think they were wise to adopt 'adventure cycling' as the name rather than be lumbered with 'cycle touring', a term which seems to come with quite a bit of baggage, if you know what I mean.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by shutuplegs »

JackT wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:50 pm
I don't know about the other Divides, but the Canda to Mexico one, on which the Tour Divide race is run, is based on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route, a route devised by the Adventure Cycling Association, which describes it as an "off road cycle route". A cycling version of the Pacific Crest Trail or Appalachian Trail for long distance hill walkers. The idea of racing the route, i.e. the Tour Divide bike race, came a decade later.
I didn’t know that, thanks.

I possibly had the ‘Trans’ races in mind when typing the above, Trans Devon, Trans Continental etc (Sometimes Googling “Trans XYZ” needs to be following by the word ‘bike’ to narrow down the search results...)
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

The racing ITT element of bikepacking is odd as in some respects it's quite far removed from simply bikepacking, yet it's also the same thing. I do find it interesting that most bikepackers simply accept the fact and are often happy to chop and change between the seemingly opposing worlds.
A hill walker just enjoys being in the mountains, the solitude, the views, the nature, etc whereas mountaineer - as well as enjoying being in the mountains - is very much motivated by the risk and danger inherent in the act of climbing and the sense of accomplishment that comes from summiting / success / not getting killed.
I think that only applies to the ITT side of things. I reckon most bikepackers most of the time, would identify with the hill walkers.
I possibly had the ‘Trans’ races in mind when typing the above, Trans Devon, Trans Continental etc (Sometimes Googling “Trans XYZ” needs to be following by the word ‘bike’ to narrow down the search results...)
In my mind (it's personal) I tend to associate 'Trans' with a supported endeavour. Only very recently has it crept into the world of self-supported events and as with 'divide', is simply an indicator of a lack of imagination :wink:
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by jameso »

That is a good article. Tricky topic.

You're racing or you're not, I get that bit. Bikepacking and touring seem like the same thing to me, given up thinking there's a real difference unless I think of the stereotype/typical imagery. Just a broad range of ways to travel by bike. I've toured while doing race pace/distances to see as much as I could in some respects in a limited time or just for the personal challenge and I've bikepacked from place to place and seen the sights on the way, had a few beers and a lot of fun. Toured on road staying in BnBs at first but was always packing light and had cols to bag. Always was about the riding experience and the places fairly equally I think.
I have no idea how it all can be split out into one or the other easily but equally, call it what we like. Maybe some just don't like the idea that they are being associated with 'tourers' :wink:
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by jameso »

as with 'divide', is simply an indicator of a lack of imagination :wink:
If it doesn't use a watershed line as a general route it's a fake divide : )
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by ScotRoutes »

jameso wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:51 pm

If it doesn't use a watershed line as a general route it's a fake divide : )
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by lune ranger »

jameso wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:50 pm Bikepacking and touring seem like the same thing to me, given up thinking there's a real difference unless I think of the stereotype/typical imagery. Just a broad range of ways to travel by bike.
This really.

Why are people obsessed with finding/defining a difference? That just smacks of tribalism for it’s own sake.
To say touring is all about the destination and bikepacking is all about the experience is codswollop.
As far as I can see, the word bikepacking has simply evolved from what people would have called off road touring. The equipment used has evolved because time has passed and experience has been gained.
I see parallels in pedestrian activities. People talk about through-hiking long distance trails where they may have talked about backpacking in the past, people go lighter and faster but the activity is still fundamentally the same as it always was - the same as with us lot bike camping.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by summittoppler »

Bikepacking or touring is the same thing isn't it? We put kit on our bikes, ride it and set up camp. It doesn't matter if panniers are used or what the terrain/surface is like, it still comes down to the basic element of packing the gear in some sort of bags and setting off at whatever speed you like (can do) and for however long you want to do it for.
Simple really if its not over thought.... :geek:
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

To say touring is all about the destination and bikepacking is all about the experience is codswollop.
It often ends up that way by the nature of it Luke. When I meet 2 racks and 4 pannier tourers (usually riding N8) they can all tell me exactly where they're going, how long they plan on it taking, where they're staying and what they'll have for tea once they arrive. Conversely, when I meet 'bikepackers' and stop for a chat, most can barely remember their names, so have no idea about any of those things and appear happy to see what the next 5 minutes or hour brings. The 'tourers' are governed by destination.

However, we should remember that many here can happily blur any lines that exist. I think we're all well beyond the pannier / soft luggage debate and will readily use what we feel is best suited to the task in hand. The choices we make there don't define us; our own character and outlook does that regardless of how we pack spare knickers and socks.

Yep, once upon a time as far back as the late 1800s, it was all 'cycle camping' and in truth, it didn't look too far removed from bikepacking - especially if you consider there were no tarmac roads. That's something I can identify with and happily do so. However, when I see 200lb of gear strapped to a bike inching and wobbling its way up the mountain towards Glaslyn, I have no feelings of affinity and it actually seems quite alien. Perhaps weirdly, I wonder how many of these people would see no difference in what they're doing compared to what I or many here might do? I'd bet a packet of Jaffa cakes that most would see marked differences and certainly wouldn't consider it to be the same thing.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by lune ranger »

Stu, I really don’t know why you’re trying to ‘spot the difference’ here.
In the ‘Do you plan your routes’ thread recently 13 bikepackers said they planned their route at least in part or away from home vs 3 who claim never to plan. Most of us know where we are going, most of us know where we intend to stop and camp or eat - vaguely at least.
I set off on a tour with my wife intending to go to Poland and back, we ended up in Istanbul.
When I’ve done my transcontinental trips I may have know my destination and a rough route but that changes on the fly - same as on a Dartmoor weekender. Most days I set off with an idea where I may end up but often end earlier or later as my day unfolds. I went N-S through E Africa and only ever made solid plans for night stays when I encountered cities and I tried to avoid them where possible.
I think the difference you are seeing is a difference between cycle campers who only pay for accommodation, either camping or indoors and those cycle campers who rough camp/bivi.
I know there is a certain type of boastful heavily loaded cycle campers who loves to tell you how far and how fast they travel but they are not representative of the whole. Same as the cycling vagrants who have no idea where they are going or when they will stop are not representative of the whole either.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by JackT »

lune ranger wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:37 am People talk about through-hiking long distance trails where they may have talked about backpacking in the past, people go lighter and faster but the activity is still fundamentally the same as it always was - the same as with us lot bike camping.
Good point. I think the camping v. hotel / b&b / hostel makes as big or a bigger difference to the overall experience than anything else. And it's quite common to see people on road bikes with bikepacking luggage doing multi-day rides from hotel to hoteL. There are no hard and fast rules. And that's a good thing.

I suspect some people get hung up on the word 'touring' because of its modern associations with being a 'tourist', 'package tours', 'tourist traps', 'tourist trails' etc. Why identify as a tourist on a tour when you can be a traveller on a journey? Suspect this is at the root of it.

If it helps, the word 'tour' derives from French for 'turn' which itself comes from the ancient Greek for a lathe.

The word 'travel' derives from the Old French 'travail' meaning "torment, suffering or trouble".
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Stu, I really don’t know why you’re trying to ‘spot the difference’ here.
I'm not really. I'm simply joining in with a conversation. Obviously there are many versions of the truth and the version we see depends on our own experiences. I'm not saying anything is right or wrong but sitting on any fence isn't really my style (or stile) ... that one's for Reg :wink:
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by lune ranger »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:33 am
Stu, I really don’t know why you’re trying to ‘spot the difference’ here.
I'm not really. I'm simply joining in with a conversation. Obviously there are many versions of the truth and the version we see depends on our own experiences. I'm not saying anything is right or wrong but sitting on any fence isn't really my style (or stile) ... that one's for Reg :wink:
Insert shocked face emoji here :-bd
Last edited by lune ranger on Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "What Is Bikepacking" - according to AK :-)

Post by RIP »

Presumably there is a difference because everyone posting Here is, well, posting Here and not on 'bearbonesbiketouring.com'. I think we can agree that it's not clear-cut and there's blurred boundaries, but Here we are.

So maybe rather than trying to work out what's different touring v bikepacking, we should approach it from another direction and ask why people are Here. The other answer may then unfold from that.

Now I've got to go and think why I'm Here and not on another forum. My starter for ten is that it has nothing to do with my bike, or luggage, or where I'm going, but to do with some characteristic(s) that other sufferers Here all display in common. Perhaps a slight 'outsider'-ness? Happy to sleep in a ditch-ness? A dissatisfaction with 'normality'? Not 'fitting in'? Hmm, I think I'm heading in the right direction. Ah, but the AK article showed some nice people 'bikepacking' and being, and probably feeling, 'normal'. So maybe our discussion isn't touring v bikepacking, but actually touring v bearboning...........
Last edited by RIP on Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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