Monster or Gravel WKR - Probably Ti

[lune ranger]

I love my Fargo, it’s extremely versatile...

If I was in your position I’d very likely be boring and get a Ti Fargo and two sets of nice wheels.

I couldn’t agree more.
I was also interested to see htriders comment above about a Fargo being too much like a Jones plus to keep both.
I’m thinking my Fargo is too much like my Krampus to keep both. I actually got a lovely second hand steel CX bike that takes 40mm tyres in order to retire the Fargo. It’s great and it’s been my go to bike since early summer. I’ve done quite a bit on it given the restrictions we’ve been under including a 200km mixed surface ride featuring a large dose of Dartmoor trails - whilst totally doable they gnarlier stuff wasn’t exactly pleasurable and I felt pretty beat up. Lesson learned was that the Fargo is a better option for my idea of mixed surface riding where I live. So I’ve ordered some monster Redshift Kitchen Sink bars and am tweaking up the Fargo and am destined to become a one bike Fargoist. Albeit with a selection of forks, two sets of wheels and I’ll probably keep the Loops from the Krampus to experiment with in future.

[jameso]

I think that the limitations of the drops are about equal to the limitations of the 40mm tyres

Couldn't agree more. Bars and tyres go together for me on the same sort of sliding scale - but Steve's bike says that's a personal preference not a rule. So.. what's the conclusion again?

(PS Steve, at some point if it works out on a Chilterns-ish ride, would love to have a spin on that if it was ok - intrigued simply as it covers so much of what I wouldn't put together hence might be surprisingly good as these things often are - or 'personal preference' )

[Cheeky Monkey]

I think that the limitations of the drops are about equal to the limitations of the 40mm tyres

Couldn't agree more. Bars and tyres go together for me on the same sort of sliding scale - but Steve's bike says that's a personal preference not a rule. So.. what's the conclusion again?

....

Oh no, that's the antithesis of a monster cross IMO. It easily runs big tyres (iirc theres a 2.6.Maxxis on the Gryphon) and with big curly bars that's a fun set up.

[lune ranger]

I think that the limitations of the drops are about equal to the limitations of the 40mm tyres

I just don’t get that argument - drop bars being a problem bikepacking. Sure if you are riding a DH or trail centre or racing XC but not for what most of us are regularly bike packing or for riding long days in the hills.
Even my (modest by current standards) 46cm fared drop is wider than I would have had on an MTB 10or15 years ago. I personally have never once thought ‘I could have ridden that if only I had wider bars’

[mustang]

I’ve got a Smokestone mr Harry

I really wish I hadn't seen that. Now I am trying to work out how to afford one! Lovely looking bike!

Anyone own or ridden the Fustle Causeway? That seems to be a bike that blurs some of the lines between genres.

[Lazarus]

jameso wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:27 am

I think that the limitations of the drops are about equal to the limitations of the 40mm tyres

I just don’t get that argument

-

Drop bars and narrow[er] wheels have limititations when it comes to off road tracks v wider tyres and non drop bars - I am not really sure how this can be countered

Granted you can select trails so that it does not limit you /stays within its performance envelope but its also not hard to exceed this hence the claim of limits.

[voodoo_simon]

I’ve got a Smokestone mr Harry

I really wish I hadn't seen that. Now I am trying to work out how to afford one! Lovely looking bike!

Anyone own or ridden the Fustle Causeway? That seems to be a bike that blurs some of the lines between genres.

Let me guess, Smokestone invented the gravel bike?

[Piemonster]

At the minute I'm leaning towards a custom ti sort of a thing

[lune ranger]

jameso wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:27 am

I think that the limitations of the drops are about equal to the limitations of the 40mm tyres

I just don’t get that argument

-

Drop bars and narrow[er] wheels have limititations when it comes to off road tracks v wider tyres and non drop bars - I am not really sure how this can be countered

Granted you can select trails so that it does not limit you /stays within its performance envelope but its also not hard to exceed this hence the claim of limits.

Tyres yes bars no - at least in this context - drop bars don’t need to be narrow or low.
There is no trail I could or would ride on my Krampus that I wouldn’t on my Fargo.

[substandard]

I’ve got a Smokestone mr Harry

I really wish I hadn't seen that. Now I am trying to work out how to afford one! Lovely looking bike!

Anyone own or ridden the Fustle Causeway? That seems to be a bike that blurs some of the lines between genres.

Let me guess, Smokestone invented the gravel bike?

Not at all, mr Harry is their first adventure bike all their other in house designed stuff are fatbikes.

Not sure G actually knows what a 40mm tyre looks like

[BigdummySteve]

jameso wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:27 am

I think that the limitations of the drops are about equal to the limitations of the 40mm tyres

I just don’t get that argument

-

Drop bars and narrow[er] wheels have limititations when it comes to off road tracks v wider tyres and non drop bars - I am not really sure how this can be countered

Granted you can select trails so that it does not limit you /stays within its performance envelope but its also not hard to exceed this hence the claim of limits.

Tyres yes bars no - at least in this context - drop bars don’t need to be narrow or low.
There is no trail I could or would ride on my Krampus that I wouldn’t on my Fargo.

indeed, my Curve Walmer bars are 55cm at the hoods, 70cm on the drops are flared and have sweep on the tops. they are set with the hook of the drops at seat height. i had a go on Pickers Orbea gravel bike, it just felt wrong off road, narrow bars and head down arse up position. Pickers felt a similar shock when he rode my Fargo.

[BigdummySteve]

(PS Steve, at some point if it works out on a Chilterns-ish ride, would love to have a spin on that if it was ok - intrigued simply as it covers so much of what I wouldn't put together hence might be surprisingly good as these things often are - or 'personal preference' )

No problem James, Im currently riding a lot in the chilterns when on veloviewer rides, last time out i was down as far as Henley-on-Thames, i give you a shout when we're allowed out again.

I get what you mean about tyres and bars, when i got the Fargo it had 44cm bars and 27.5x3" tyres (standard fitment) although it rode well the combination just felt wrong, wider bars might have helped but 29" wheels were a much better fit for the feel of the bike.
I think you'd like My Fargo,its evolved over three years as my own solution to varied riding with one bike, point it downhill and its fun. really its just a MTB with lots of diffrent place to hang on to

[fatbikephil]

T'aint the width, its the drop. When your on the drops your that much lower than on flats which will limit you / me on steeper downhills. If you got those fancy GRX cross top levers then this wouldn't be an issue. I should also have said, the fargo has quite a stiff front end (first gen ones had much longer head tubes and were trad headsets not 44mm) whereas the strag is much more noodly. So comfort wise there isn't much between the strag with 40's and the fargo with 50-55's Obviously if you put bigger stuff in a fargo then it will be more comfy but thats why it then crosses over with something like a Jones etc.

Ach its all personal and you always have to factor in want over need.

[Lazarus]

Tyres yes bars no - at least in this context - drop bars don’t need to be narrow or low.

Then why are you fitting them then ? Why not just fit MTB bars ?

Basically with drop bars you lose something [ control ability to ride tech whatever ] and there has to be a gain for this to be worth choosing - i just dont see what this gain is on a drop bar MTB

[lune ranger]

Ach its all personal and you always have to factor in want over need.

[lune ranger]

Tyres yes bars no - at least in this context - drop bars don’t need to be narrow or low.

Then why are you fitting them then ? Why not just fit MTB bars ?

Basically with drop bars you lose something [ control ability to ride tech whatever ] and there has to be a gain for this to be worth choosing - i just dont see what this gain is on a drop bar MTB

Do you ever read these posts?
This has been done many times already.
Listen very carefully....

Set the hook/drop at standard bar height - whatever that is for you - for me it’s saddle height or a tad below.
This is your normal riding position. What drops give you here is a comfortable, wide, stance with good control on rough ground. Just like a swept ‘flat bar’.
On long rides, on easy ground, when you want to sit up, when you want to eat on the go, etc, etc you have the option to ride on the tops in a higher further back position.
Bar choice of course is a personal thing so you may not want this set up and that’s fine.
It hasn’t stopped me riding anything I wanted to including lots of Lakeland passes, Helvellyn and off Highstreet towards Troutbeck with a full bikepacking load.

[Lazarus]

Do you ever read these posts?
This has been done many times already.
Listen very carefully....

Bit confused there HTrider said more or less the same thing- also said bars compromise you - but i got this and he got your approval.
Off course I read as i have quoted you - please note how i choose to not add any sarcasm or return the tone there as i am trying to not do that sort of thing - I really am.
Have i done something to offend you ? if so i apologise and shall just leave it there - if you wish me to not reply just say so as I have no desire to do this sort of thing nor do I see the need.

Happy trails
PANDA PICTURE

[jobro]

Do you ever read these posts?
This has been done many times already.
Listen very carefully....

Set the hook/drop at standard bar height - whatever that is for you - for me it’s saddle height or a tad below.
This is your normal riding position. What drops give you here is a comfortable, wide, stance with good control on rough ground. Just like a swept ‘flat bar’.
On long rides, on easy ground, when you want to sit up, when you want to eat on the go, etc, etc you have the option to ride on the tops in a higher further back position.
Bar choice of course is a personal thing so you may not want this set up and that’s fine.
It hasn’t stopped me riding anything I wanted to including lots of Lakeland passes, Helvellyn and off Highstreet towards Troutbeck with a full bikepacking load.

Agree with you entirely. There is absolutely no reduction in control or feel on a drop bar of sufficient width and position. Like you I can, and do, ride technical track on my Mason ISO. Last year I was 15th in KOM on a particular rocky downhill that is ridden by hordes of mountain bikers. All those faster than me, and its only in seconds, were on big bounce bikes. Now I know Strava KOM's are hardly a scientific test, but it does give an indication of what a drop barred bike is capable of. And I'm no roadie turned over to gravel. I've been riding mtb's for 36 years including a few races in GB vests, so I have some experience in both forms of bike.

[Piemonster]

Have I stumbled into a niche equivalent of a wheel size thread?

[jobro]

Have I stumbled into a niche equivalent of a wheel size thread?

In that they go around and around forever (no pun intended) then yes

[ScotRoutes]

Have I stumbled into a niche equivalent of a wheel size thread?

What do you mean "stumbled into"? You started the bloody thing!

[lune ranger]

Do you ever read these posts?
This has been done many times already.
Listen very carefully....

Bit confused there HTrider said more or less the same thing- also said bars compromise you - but i got this and he got your approval.
Off course I read as i have quoted you - please note how i choose to not add any sarcasm or return the tone there as i am trying to not do that sort of thing - I really am.
Have i done something to offend you ? if so i apologise and shall just leave it there - if you wish me to not reply just say so as I have no desire to do this sort of thing nor do I see the need.

Happy trails
PANDA PICTURE

Insert Panda here.
Htrider got the thumbs up for the bit about it being a personal choice.
No need for pistols at dawn. We are talking about bikes. Indeed, about a niche within a niche of bikes.
You do however seem crop up as a cheer leader for the detractors on these threads about drops off road. This might explain my exasperated tone.

[thenorthwind]

Have I stumbled into a niche equivalent of a wheel size thread?

What do you mean "stumbled into"? You started the bloody thing!

Yes, you did, you invaded Poland!

[Piemonster]

Have I stumbled into a niche equivalent of a wheel size thread?

What do you mean "stumbled into"? You started the bloody thing!

Your just annoyed that I might get to ‘that’ frame first

[jameso]

I think that the limitations of the drops are about equal to the limitations of the 40mm tyres

I just don’t get that argument - drop bars being a problem bikepacking. Sure if you are riding a DH or trail centre or racing XC but not for what most of us are regularly bike packing or for riding long days in the hills.
Even my (modest by current standards) 46cm fared drop is wider than I would have had on an MTB 10or15 years ago. I personally have never once thought ‘I could have ridden that if only I had wider bars’

Just to clarify, I was agreeing with another post in general, it's just my take and worth no more than anyone else's. If I make a point on why I think (for ex) drops detract from my ability to handle a bike off-road and might as well be matched to tyres that work in a matched terrain range, it's just an opinion or my experience. If it's read as detracting from someone's choice that's not how it's intended. I ride a rigid SS off-road most of the time, what sort of example about practicality over experience is that... : )

I find this whole topic interesting from a design thinking pov as well as the massively subjective outcomes of bike spec, design and use. I do have some strong opinions in these areas and that's a risky place for an aspiring creative/designer to be - far better to be open minded to change and influence. At the same time if I can't take a position on something from experience or at least good theory then what good am I in this area. And not being able to see the value in the counter-points would be even more of a failure. Juggling act of sorts.