Short vs long pull brakes

[lune ranger]

If you had a short pull drop bar brake lever vs a long pull drop bar brake lever operating their respective cable disc callipers (say TRP Spyke vs Spyre or Avid BB7 road vs MTB).
Could you expect one to outperform the other? Or would matching the right lever with the right calliper mean there’d be no discernible difference?

[jameso]

If you match the lever and caliper they should feel very similar in terms of lever pull. Mismatched between lever and caliper they don't work well. You can get travel adapters for one brake if needed?

One other way to tune the feel with cable brakes (though not enough for making up for mis-matched lever pull) is to mix compressionless housing with std brake outers. I use std outers on the front, compressionless on the rear and get a very similar lever compression feel between front and rear brakes that way.

[lune ranger]

Thanks James.
I’m not looking to mismatch levers/callipers.
I just need new levers and have a choice of road or MTB callipers to fit.
I sometimes feel that my MTB cable discs outperform my drop bar ones but have no evidence for it.
Mainly it was just a thought exercise.

[jameso]

Thanks James.
I’m not looking to mismatch levers/callipers.
I just need new levers and have a choice of road or MTB callipers to fit.
I sometimes feel that my MTB cable discs outperform my drop bar ones but have no evidence for it.
Mainly it was just a thought exercise.

Actual power -wise, not sure. More or less cable is pull is balanced at the caliper end* so it should just come down to the brake lever length and finger leverage. Spyre/Spyke or BB7 road vs MTB use same pads in each case so it won't be that.

*There may be some leverage gain designed into in an MTB cable disc caliper vs road equivalents, I don't know. I expect there's manipulation of leverage in a hydro brake's pistons so why not with lever arms and cam shape in cable brakes.

[fatbikephil]

I've never had much luck with short pull disks (either avids or TRP's), the lever always feels spongy in spite of rigid cable outer. I think its because the short pull lever leads to more cable strain but I've always fancied the lever arms on road avid or trp calipers is still just a shade too long. So be interested to see a direct comparison between the two!

[Lazarus]

I sometimes feel that my MTB cable discs outperform my drop bar ones but have no evidence for it.

I always assumed this is due to the tyre on a MTB having a greater friction [and the brake i usuually applied at less speed] with the ground so you can brake harder without skidding...I have no evidence for this assumption.

[lune ranger]

I sometimes feel that my MTB cable discs outperform my drop bar ones but have no evidence for it.

I always assumed this is due to the tyre on a MTB having a greater friction [and the brake i usuually applied at less speed] with the ground so you can brake harder without skidding...I have no evidence for this assumption.

Not convinced by that argument. One of my drop bar bikes is a Fargo that runs MTB tyres and, as it’s ridden by me, doesn’t go too fast.
It’s probably just an imaginary difference unless it’s to do with the amount of lever throw.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I sometimes feel that my MTB cable discs outperform my drop bar ones but have no evidence for it.

Are they the same diameter discs Luke?

[Lazarus]

Not convinced by that argument

neither am now some real world experience has disproved it

[lune ranger]

They have been in the past, they’re smaller now 185/160 vs 204/185.
I had been led to believe that bigger rotors don’t make much difference except in terms of cooling.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I had been led to believe that bigger rotors don’t make much difference except in terms of cooling.

Really? Consider it a matter of leverage.

[lune ranger]

I had been led to believe that bigger rotors don’t make much difference except in terms of cooling.

Really? Consider it a matter of leverage.

That’s what I always thought but remember (I think) being disabused of that idea on here.
Isn’t it that the bigger rotor is going faster at its outer edge than the smaller one at any given wheel speed?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Isn’t it that the bigger rotor is going faster at its outer edge than the smaller one at any given wheel speed?

I'm not sure that really matters. If it did, brakes would be more efficient the slower you go which isn't true.

[Al]

I put a 180mm rotor on the gravel bike a few months ago. No other changes. Definitely stops quicker.

[Cheeky Monkey]

My anecdotal evidence is that any brake where I've gone bigger rotor has been a better brake.

YMMV