Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

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Dave Barter
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by Dave Barter »

Chew wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:39 pm
shutupthepunx wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:24 pmwhile dave makes a good point, how helpful is the concept of 'well if we all did it'? if we all did or didnt do a bunch of things the world would be a very different place. should we wait until we all can and want to, do something, before doing it. we all live off the back of others, and i think we're all aware of that. im very aware many people are drowning in debt and stuck in very horrible situations.
Not wanting to put works into Dave's mouth, but I think hes saying that there is a difference between choosing to live a meagre existence and having to do so by necessity?
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

What would you suggest we, as a society, do to fix things?
Ooh me, me, me ... can I start by suggesting a cull of all the people I had the misfortune to view on 'The Tattoo Fixers' please.
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ton
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by ton »

Ooh me, me, me ... can I start by suggesting a cull of all the people I had the misfortune to view on 'The Tattoo Fixers' please.

oh and all the twats on anything ' celebrity get me in, out, under, over........ ' too please.
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

And it was going so well :lol:
shutupthepunx
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by shutupthepunx »

tobasco wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:51 pm What would you suggest we, as a society, do to fix things?
take a look at how things were in the great time reference point of 'before'. before internet, cars, plastic, oil, industry, over-population, empires, governments, money, heirarchies. (you know, 'before"!, when plague was common, all we said was ooga booga and infant mortality was high :-bd :geek: )

i think so much things are taken as a given now that its hard to imagine a world without these things. i just sound cukoo. but all these things depend on outsourced violence. we dont see it cause it happens elsewhere or because we are numb to it.

but so long as resources are imported then one cant live sustainably. people living in small groups off of a land base which can support them would be my response. i imagine all the current world will collapse at some point, probly not in my days, but one day. and then is a good chance to start over. peak oil anyoe? 'climate chaos'? completely depleated 'natural resources'?

i dont think doing the likes of my suggestion at the moment would do FA. i dont think living how i do does FA. we as a 'society' dont have much power - government, industry and money has power. see forget shorter showers, why personal change doesn't equal social change


i dont have all the answers, i dont really have any of the answers to be honest, my response is prettt sub standard to be fair. my answer is that i dont know.
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by psling »

As long as people are involved there will never be an answer to that one ^^^
Leaders, followers, desire, envy, power, empathy - all human traits that can never really be compatible and which become more extreme the more 'civilised' the human race becomes. Animal Farm anyone?

Who would imagine 'retirement' could be so complicated... :???: :cool:
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by bluebus200 »

ton wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:17 pmanyone do it ?
I have been living in camper vans since I left home. Self employed similar work when I want and choose my work. It's no bed of roses but it has afforded me enormous freedom over the last 20 odd years. The main thing I think is if you want freedom you have to avoid debt. There are many ways to do that that but for me the simplest is to have very very low overheads.
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by numplumz »

Yes doing it and have been for 3 years now. quit work at 55, I say I'm not retired as I haven't had any income or touched any pension yet.
Always though I would work till I drop, I enjoyed it. I worked in engineering maintenance all my life and that came with time restrictions in summer generally and call outs; then I started to lust after long cycle trips.
As has been said before it takes the right kind of people, most of my friends just can't understand life without their levels of consumption, and you have to careful when with them socially.
It helps that we have always paid any spare cash into the mortgage, a life goal was to remove that debt as soon as possible rather than spend on anything just to impress people.
I wanted freedom and worked out just how low I thought I could go and decided I could do it on £8K a year, so i first set out to prove it.

For 2 years I only "paid" myself that amount and saved the rest. You quickly realise how easily you just click to buy and how much you waste on stuff. In two years I saved £40K and then just quit the rat race.
3 years later those savings are still on course to last me over 5 years (lockdown has helped) and I have no intention of working again, my small pension pot will get me to the state cash age.
Cycling and Barebones travelling are just made for frugal fun, especially when time is not your enemy. I don't drive and stopped flying and have done some great Euro trips.

I always said my life's ambition was to get bored, if I stay healthy I can't imagine that ever happening. :-bd
Last edited by numplumz on Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by Supernova »

I've kind of be doing that (living a different existence) for the past 15 years since quitting 'normal' employment and scraping a living as a travel photographer ever since. Some years it's all gravy, some it does feel pretty meagre.

It's not until you leave the petty constraints of everyday PAYE life that you realise how liberated you can be. The downside is risk of poverty, the upside is absolute freedom. It's not for everyone, there's a great deal of comfort being in the matrix, but it's fun on the outside.
bluebus200
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by bluebus200 »

Debt is the problem...that and the way it traps you in pointless energy sapping work. If your interested check out David greebers book 'debt, a history'. Also you might find this essay on pointless work interesting..

https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by RIP »

Cheeky Monkey wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:49 pm And it was going so well :lol:
:lol:
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The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....

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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by RIP »

I think that individual actions can change society. Change always starts with one person. The times that it then snowballs, it can do so suddenly and rapidly.

Sounds a bit big-headed but I've occasionally supported certain stances/things/changes in their very early days and watched how they snowballed and are now mainstream even with people who originally opposed them. I'm hardly a paragon of virtue but the point still stands.

Hit Them in the financial gonads. That's all They understand. Don't buy/use/do stuff if you don't agree with how it's produced or sold. Encourage others to do the same, without proselytising if possible. Make sure any investments you have support companies you agree with. Many many examples, eg huge upswing in 'ESG' investing now - 'good' companies get your investment, 'bad' ones have it withdrawn then they fail. OK, not always that simple, but often it is that simple.
"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....

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RIP
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by RIP »

Anyway, digressed, and 'tis Ton's thread. Any the wiser/confused/amused after 4 pages old sparrow? Any flashes of inspiration?
"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....

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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by Chicken Legs »

I found this piece by Mark Hines a good few years back and think has some good points relevant to the topic ;

"Life is far too short and precious to miss out, preoccupied with a pursuit of the unnecessary.  It might be made more comfortable with more money, more and/or better status symbols and that next promotion - and these might even bring a certain amount of satisfaction, for a while - but these are nothing more than distractions.
In a world driven by our economies as they are, and an invented need for corporate and personal wealth, we seem to have become trapped in cycles of self-inflicted (but industry-supported) debt, and resolve to invest our whole lives in being a part of a finance-based system, and even wanting to show others how well we play that game.  In that sense, life might be nothing more than some grand game of sudoku - engaging, stimulating, satisfying, but ultimately entirely pointless.  We start, we fill in some gaps and we end.
Life is a game and nothing more: how we live nowadays seems a distraction from that which is truly important.  I do not want to believe people lie on their deathbeds and reflect on how great they were at working tirelessly and making money.  What makes you happy, deep down?  What do you love doing?  What is your passion?  If you do not know, perhaps now is the time to find out.  I love to travel, I love being with real friends and the people I love, and I am passionate about living life to the full. 

And this quote from Mike Hall and racing the TD inspired me to give serious thought and make major changes to my lifestyle, allowing me to spend more time with the people that count and riding my bike.

"Racing the divide has been a transformative experience for me in so many ways and in some way has touched almost everything I have done since. The trail might take the body to the physical place; covering vast distances through wild open and desolate landscapes alive with wildlife and changing before your eyes. The race however, the thrill of the chase, the potent cocktail of adrenaline, endorphins, fatigue, sleep deprivation, stress and finally relief takes the mind to quite another. The personal satisfaction, confidence and empowerment from the achievement lasts a lifetime. For me this combination is untouchable".
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by boxelder »

I admit to not having read all of this, but for less old readers......... is it not better to put money into an ISA now, rather than a pension, or at least spread across both? You pay the tax before it goes in and therefore insure against the now inevitable rises in tax - is that inevitable, with the cost of CV19? You get to access the money whenever you want/need it. Spread it across a few funds and the growth has been way above 5% over the last 6 months - far from usual, but we're still recovering. Leaving money in a bank now is not a good plan, unless you get bad advice, or really can't afford to lose some of it (worst case scenario). Eggs and baskets. We've lived un-extravagently for a while, with 3 kids and a mortgage, focussing on reducing debt and retiring 10 years early. I've done the gap year climbing bum thing so know all about loss of motivation when you have excess time. What I found was that you're not climbing/cycling all the time, but relax - you still do more, and rest and prep time means that the quality is better. The grass is inevitably and always greener - better to 'want what you have' and all that.
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by RIP »

boxelder wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pm You pay the tax before it goes in and therefore insure against the now inevitable rises in tax
Insure against tax? Not quite sure what you mean there. What makes you think they won't change any rules to their advantage in future? :wink: . Anyway, you pay no tax on pension income under £12800+ either at moment.
You get to access the money whenever you want(/need) it.
Not necessarily an advantage :wink:

The Above Is Not Financial Advice. Invest in a load of beer!
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Dave Barter
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by Dave Barter »

bluebus200 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:49 pm
ton wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:17 pmanyone do it ?
I have been living in camper vans since I left home. Self employed similar work when I want and choose my work. It's no bed of roses but it has afforded me enormous freedom over the last 20 odd years. The main thing I think is if you want freedom you have to avoid debt. There are many ways to do that that but for me the simplest is to have very very low overheads.
Side question. How have you found this in pandemic times? Are you constantly bothered by pitchfork armed locals?
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ScotRoutes
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

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We have a few campervanners living nearby. They've been around so long that they are the locals.

Folk know who they are and they're allowed to get on with it.
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by benp1 »

boxelder wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pm I admit to not having read all of this, but for less old readers......... is it not better to put money into an ISA now, rather than a pension, or at least spread across both? You pay the tax before it goes in and therefore insure against the now inevitable rises in tax - is that inevitable, with the cost of CV19? You get to access the money whenever you want/need it. Spread it across a few funds and the growth has been way above 5% over the last 6 months
ISA just give you tax free growth (assuming a shares ISA), but you're using net income to contribute. Pension allows you to put it in gross, as you get your income tax back. The growth is just the same, you can choose the same funds. Yes, you pay income tax when you draw it down, but if you're savvy with it you'll choose when and how to draw it, plus you get the lump sum benefit. Most folks will pay less income tax in retirement than in employment so it works out well

ISA is better if you think you might need the cash now for a rainy day. Pension locks it in till retirement, but you'll most likely get more in a pension than an ISA if you draw it at retirement age

6 mths of growth isn't that relevant for a pension, obviously helps you really need to be thinking in years, not months
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Would investing in a property that could be rented, not provide a far better return than ISA or pension?
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by mikehowarth »

To answer a couple of the questions above.

You need to mixture of investing in both pensions and ISA, if you plan to retire before your pension kicks in you need a cash bridge to tide you over that will depend on how far out you are from your pensionable age.

Ultimately you need to maximise all your tax wrappers to their maximum effect - ISA and SIPP.

If you do the above effectively you also need to be aware of lifetime contributions allowance which also kick in.

Obviously all the above is completely subject to change come this years budget, where I imagine lifetime allowances, ISA or SIPP allowances will be adjusted to bring more taxable income into scope to bridge any budget deficit after COVID.

In terms of Norms question about property, from my point of view its not quite as good an investment as it used to be, particularly with second home stamp duty, removal of mortgage interest offset. Generally you'll get something around 5-6% yield before costs - insurance, maintaince, letting agent fees etc - however you do get capital appreciation if you buy in the right area.

The above works on having reasonable tenants and minimal void periods where the property is stood empty, plus there is likely to be more tax hikes for buy to let investors in the future given they are a relatively easy target.

Equally with COVID certain areas are changing with more people working from home, so you need to be aware of the impact of working from home and how that may effect the local property market particularly the sort of housing stock that will be attractive.

Personally I think the best investment strategy for people with a low risk appetite is something like a global index tracker which will give you exposure to a number of geographies and sectors wrapped in an ISA and or SIPP its a reasonable way to go for minimal hassle and cost when compared to an investment fund.

But I'd suggest doing your own reading on it - after all I'm not a financial advisor - just another random bloke on the internet, who occasionally rides bikes.

For anyone vaguely interested in anything I've written above - this site is well worth a read: https://monevator.com/category/investin ... investing/
Last edited by mikehowarth on Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
ScotRoutes
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by ScotRoutes »

There's a good reason Financial Advisers are legally prevented from dispensing advice freely over the Internet.
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Dave Barter
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by Dave Barter »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:22 am Would investing in a property that could be rented, not provide a far better return than ISA or pension?
Only if it appreciates in value and you can find a buyer or the cost of operating it is significantly less than the rent. You also have to factor your time into it which in theory attracts a costs. There's no right way to invest it's highly personal
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by Chew »

ScotRoutes wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:59 amThere's a good reason Financial Advisers are legally prevented from dispensing advice freely over the Internet.
This^^

If you need some advice around how to manage a significant amount of money over a long period of time then its best to speak to an IFA who is qualified/regulated/insured to give you appropriate guidance.

You can do your own research and do everything yourself for free, but based upon some of the well intentioned "advice" posted above its probably best to speak to an expert.
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Re: Living a meagre existence so you dont have to work ?

Post by ton »

thing is tho, we have been speaking to a IFA since the wife retired in early November.
and the plan she has given us will work for us how we want it to. it is very low risk, if there is such a thing.
minimal notice is needed to get to the funds if we need it, and the return is ok if we dont go mad with the lump.

but now as i have said, we are unsure. as i said, when you aint had nowt, the thought of handing what you get, over is a very alien thing to do.
or am i just being stupid.
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