Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

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Lazarus
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Lazarus »

I think what annoys me a bit is when Alpkit are held up as some kind of saintly (almost charitable) organisation when they're actually a business,
So yes every business needs money but that does not mean they are all just the same because of this basic principle of capitalism. Patagonia needs money or it will close but it not Sports Direct is it . So you can spend your money wth a company that tries to be good or you can spend it with a company that does not try to be good or even care, that is your choice to be made with your money.
I know which way I go and who i boycott and why. I also know I am in the minority [EDIT} and it would not be hard to find a point where i am hypocrtical but at least I am trying.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by lune ranger »

:-bd
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RIP
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by RIP »

Dave Barter wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:55 am I do see the irony in debating purchasing ethics on the internet.

How many data centres spewing out carbon did your message traverse? Which carrier did you use? What are their values and ethics? Where were the electronics sourced from etc etc etc. Really you should be making your feelings known on dried nettle paper written in your own blood.
Fair point. But on the other side of the slate is people (ONE person) driving 100 yards to pick up a purchase, not liking it, driving 200 yards elsewhere, using the acres of 'free' (land use!) parking, heated shops, etc etc.

I'd be interested to see an exact(ish) comparison of the two methods of buying. It's also a bit like is it better to buy UK tomatoes or Spanish ones - one involves transport the other involves heated greenhouses (maybe powered by renewables though - arg!)

Decisions, decisions.

As said, at least try.
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Jurassic
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Jurassic »

Lazarus wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:25 am
I think what annoys me a bit is when Alpkit are held up as some kind of saintly (almost charitable) organisation when they're actually a business,
So yes every business needs money but that does not mean they are all just the same because of this basic principle of capitalism. Patagonia needs money or it will close but it not Sports Direct is it . So you can spend your money wth a company that tries to be good or you can spend it with a company that does not try to be good or even care, that is your choice to be made with your money.
I know which way I go and who i boycott and why. I also know I am in the minority [EDIT} and it would not be hard to find a point where i am hypocrtical but at least I am trying.
I agree and try to follow the same principles myself but I still question how effective my choices are. Example, I have two expensive Patagonia fleece jackets that I really like, that are relatively new but are bobbling really badly and the wrist on one is coming apart, I also have a Decathlon fleece jacket that I've had for ten plus years that is showing all the signs of going on for another ten years. I know that Patagonia is probably a more ethical company than Decathlon (and am a long time personal admirer of Yvon Chouinard)but I can't see the Patagonia fleeces lasting more than another year. Which choice would have the lowest impact on the environment? (I know the worker's rights thing should be taken into account as well). My point is that even with the best intentions it's very difficult to be sure about these things.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by sean_iow »

RIP wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:52 am I'd be interested to see an exact(ish) comparison of the two methods of buying. It's also a bit like is it better to buy UK tomatoes or Spanish ones - one involves transport the other involves heated greenhouses (maybe powered by renewables though - arg!)
Some of the tomatoes I passed on my run to work this morning will end up in supermarkets (Waitrose) in Dubai, whist we're doing that I'm not sure these much hope for us :roll:

It is an interesting dilemma, local farmers promote their meat as it's reared on the Island... what they helpfully overlook in their advertising is that there is no abattoir here, so they go to the Mainland on the ferry in a lorry live and come back on the ferry in a lorry as meat. So the best way to reduce the carbon footprint when buying meat is NOT to buy meat reared on the Island but on the Mainland as it's only 1 ferry journey and hopefully the animals had a less stressful journey as they didn't go on a ferry.

Of course the obvious thing to do for both the above issues it to eat the tomatoes grown here instead, which is what I do.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

... but at least I am trying.
Very.

Only kidding :wink:

Are folks assuming that because some companies don't say they are being ethical then they are not? A potential flaw? Not everyone has to (whore out for marketing purposes :mischevious:) advertise their ethical behavior.
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Richard G
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Richard G »

Cheeky Monkey wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:08 pm Not everyone has to (whore out for marketing purposes :mischevious:) advertise their ethical behavior.
Sure, but by the same token, leaving competitive advantages on the table is just poor business.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Like many here, I try and do my bit but I also appreciate that it may largely be for my own personal benefit. While we* continue to live the lives we do, then we're pretty much f*cked. There really needs to be a complete change in peoples aspirations and motivations. A large scale cull probably wouldn't do any harm either in helping slow the process.

It's very difficult to be enviromentally sound and still make money when dealing with a consumer base who's largely driven by price and instant gratification. 'Green' is a fantastic marketing tool as it helps ease the conscience of the consumer.

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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by PaulB2 »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:46 pm A large scale cull probably wouldn't do any harm either in helping slow the process.
I think it'd do a fair amount of harm to those people culled :grin:
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

Richard G wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:23 pm
Cheeky Monkey wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:08 pm Not everyone has to (whore out for marketing purposes :mischevious:) advertise their ethical behavior.
Sure, but by the same token, leaving competitive advantages on the table is just poor business.
I agree but few businesses, ime, can do *everything*.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by jameso »

Few businesses have people sat around waiting for work so I guess a business that has the time and staff hours to gain certification and / or efforts towards sustainability in any credible way is a bit closer to the Patagonia school of business than the Boohoo model, at least. Good points on how credible these certifications are though, not to be taken as the be-all end-all.

Value including ethics is a good point Reg. I'd rather buy from a business where I know the people there have a sense of responsibility and ethics than some box-shifting importers of the cheapest gear at any impact cost. No business is perfect, all consumption has a cost, but the overall effect of supporting a more responsible business seems better. Very/over-simplistic perhaps and of course 'more responsible' needs backing up.

Alpkit's founders are good guys, I spent some time with them in the early days of their company on a trip to the Alps and I found what they'd done and how they do it inspiring. People with values like that don't tend to sell out, you'd be in a different world/industry if you were a 'profits at all costs / DGAS' sort. That was a long time ago and businesses grow, things get out of line and hopefully get sorted as they grow maybe, but personally I believe they work in the right direction.
Not everyone has to (whore out for marketing purposes :mischevious:) advertise their ethical behavior.
So true. I wonder how many businesses have general good stuff that comes with the scale and influence a business can have as part of their motivations, I expect those who do, do tell people. Pride in company action as well as product. 'Let My People Go Surfing' is a good example of how this influences companies, changed how I think a large business could work anyway. It's a good PR thing for Patagonia yes, it's also a challenge to any other business - "it's not impossible, so why don't you do that?".
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by arkay »

RIP wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:52 am It's also a bit like is it better to buy UK tomatoes or Spanish ones - one involves transport the other involves heated greenhouses (maybe powered by renewables though - arg!)
Seeing what Spanish fruit and veg are watered with colours my decision somewhat, too.

My wife insists on buying strawberries year round. The Spanish ones in winter taste of nothing. I much prefer to go without and wait until the British ones appear - or, better, when the ones in the garden are ready (as they are now, although the slugs get 75% of them).

Incidentally talking of tomatoes, I have given up growing them from seed as the ones I carefully sowed and looked after in growbags never had any decent toms on them, whereas the ones that pop up in random places all over the garden from the seeds that end up in the compost bin from our shop-bought toms are always much more healthy and vigorous and produce loads. I'm sure there is a lesson or metaphor or something there somewhere.
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Richard G
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Richard G »

You should all be buying Italian tomatoes anyway. For shame! :lol:

I quite enjoy growing the heritage varieties as you can't really get them in shops. Not really had any problems growing them from seed, but then I've been doing it since I was a kid on my dad's (now mine) allotment.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Lazarus »

tomatoes are interesting a local nursery grow them - they do it year round using lights and heating - probably not any better than just buying imported ones
Not everyone has to (whore out for marketing purposes :mischevious:) advertise their ethical behavior.
So true. I wonder how many businesses have general good stuff that comes with the scale and influence a business can have as part of their motivations
I dont see this as an issue; if you care about the environment and impact you will " promote" your actions and encourage everyone elses to " be better". i find it hard to believe a company, trying to sell things, will be quiet about something that makes it more likely to sell things. How vocal they are will depend but surley not silent as saying this wont stop people buying from them ; I very much doubt anyone boycotts companies becuse they are ethical / environmentally focused.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by jameso »

I very much doubt anyone boycotts companies becuse they are ethical / environmentally focused.
I doubt it also. Generally not on environmental issues, some fools might though and there's enough climate change sceptics out there who see it as a challenge to a way of life etc. The reaction Rivendell reported from a minority over their Black Reparation Pricing says as soon as a business goes ethical or political they lose some customers and get some grief generally.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Richard G »

Wouldn't surprise me in the US to be honest.
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In Reverse
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by In Reverse »

Brewdog do some decent beers imo. Their bar in Manchester is excellent for food and pints too.

Their Layer Cake in cans is well worth a look, 7% though...

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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

Lazarus wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:04 am tomatoes are interesting a local nursery grow them - they do it year round using lights and heating - probably not any better than just buying imported ones
Not everyone has to (whore out for marketing purposes :mischevious:) advertise their ethical behavior.
So true. I wonder how many businesses have general good stuff that comes with the scale and influence a business can have as part of their motivations
I dont see this as an issue; if you care about the environment and impact you will " promote" your actions and encourage everyone elses to " be better". i find it hard to believe a company, trying to sell things, will be quiet about something that makes it more likely to sell things. How vocal they are will depend but surley not silent as saying this wont stop people buying from them ; I very much doubt anyone boycotts companies becuse they are ethical / environmentally focused.
Either you're missing or I didn't make the point clearly enough (or maybe you just don't agree). In the first instance it only makes it more likely they will sell stuff to an (arguably) small proportion of people (those that *GAS*). A company might be ethical but if it's purpose is to sell stuff they are going to focus on what they know or believe will do so to their maximum benefit.

Secondly, no one (or at least not me) said they would boycot such companies. My point was that they can exist. And by a bit of extension, just because you aren't B-corp or whatever (the potential faults of such systems already mentioned) doesn't mean that they are NOT ethical.

:cool:

Edit - and the best, most bounteous toms I ever did see were the ones growing in sewage sludge on a land reclamation scheme.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by RIP »

arkay wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:06 am much prefer to go without and wait until the British ones appear
Absolutely. Seasonal and local as far as 'possible'. Bloody ridiculous to buy NZ apples in summer for example when we have plenty of UK berries. Oranges bit of a problem all year round obviously but you make your decision on those. As you say they taste better as well as not being shipped half way round the planet.

To bring it full circle, this sort of thing is loosely related to our mantra of LNT as well. No point burying your poo if you're pooing out the remains of an NZ apple. That apple's transport has left a big trace behind it.

And a big elephant in the room is we all like to travel to our jape start points, all those single occupancy motors then parked vehicles littering the place (leave a bit of paper and you get told off, but it's fine to litter the place with a tin box). I can play the holier-than-thou on-the-train card but James for example trumps that as he seems to bike to his start points :-bd . You may say train costs more (probably not) but we bring in the price v value assessment again, where value includes ethics etc. Although I've gone a little bit too OT now sorry.

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Last edited by RIP on Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by Piemonster »

even found the sale in their archives
If you ever encounter a business (exc very very small outfits) that can’t do this more or less instantly I’d run a mile. They should be able to access all your transactions for at least as long as they’re legally obliged to by HMRC which is quite a bit longer than 2 years.

Anyone of Alpkit size will just have a record of you on a CRM database with all your activity logged. Including name/address/phone/email and probably bank details/purchase history/marketing consents, so really should take less than 60 seconds to track down previous orders.
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by jameso »

James for example trumps that as he seems to bike to his start points
Sometimes, but I'll happily get a train or a liftshare to a ride, used to fly most years on holiday too though hardly in last 5yrs or so. I just haven't owned a car for some time. Lowered impact rather than anything rigid, same with buying habits. Trains are great for riding trips. Train beers on the way home..
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by sean_iow »

RIP wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:45 pm I can play the holier-than-thou on-the-train card
Unless we include the environmental damage that HS2 is causing, in which case chartering a helicopter to the start would be better :wink:
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by RIP »

sean_iow wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:09 am
RIP wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:45 pm I can play the holier-than-thou on-the-train card
Unless we include the environmental damage that HS2 is causing, in which case chartering a helicopter to the start would be better :wink:
Mmm, I'm not particularly a fan of HS2 (although HS1 made sense), but I'm amused that the most vocal opponents in the Chilterns are the very same who were quite happy for the more disruptive M40 to plough through the same area so they could drive their salesmobiles to London or Birmingham as fast as possible.

Right, it's CF so I need to stop now and drive 100 yds down to the corner shop to buy a lime for my cocktail. Not really...
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Re: Alpkit reaches B-corp status.

Post by sean_iow »

In Reverse wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:45 pm Their Layer Cake in cans is well worth a look, 7% though...

Image
Spotted these in ASDA earlier so treated myself to one, thanks for the recommendation, it's lovely :-bd very easy drinking, good job I only bought one at 7% :lol:
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