Forestry operations on rights of way

[BenS]

A couple of the local trails I ride are bridleways through land that is currently being logged. Today I encountered forestry operations and was told I could not pass along the bridleway. They posted forestry signs at the point they were doing the work but there were no notices saying that they had applied for a footpath closure either at the point of closure nor where the bridleway left the road.

My take on this was that they cannot close the bridleway but could ask me to wait whilst they ceased operations so I could pass safely. The banks man was understanding on this but the ‘gaffer’ swore at me over the radio.

Anyone know where I stand legally with this? It’s in Wales if that’s different.

[Bearbonesnorm]

It's doubtful that they've gained the permission required to close a RoW but common sense really needs to reign in situations like this and even if they stopped work for you to pass, it still might not actually be safe to do so. I must admit, I've never really encountered any issues when they're working .... the issues tend to arise when they've finished and the BW is torn apart and covered in branches etc.

[fatbikephil]

If they are closing a ROW then need an order otherwise they should manage people passing through as and when. I've seen this a lot in recent years since FC stopped doing their own forestry work and contracted out via management contracts to private forestry companies. These companies seem to do as they please and 'close' ROWs (or Core Paths in Scotland) willy nilly. In terms of health and safety legislation they are failing as it would be reasonable for them to either have a legal closure or manage users through the site. As they are doing neither if someone gets injured on the site they may be deemed to have not taken reasonable measures to protect the public.

Drop a line to your local ROW officer and FC direct.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Is the forest in question owned by NRW or is it privately owned?

[BenS]

I believe it’s owned by NRW.

Common sense did prevail, they were working 100m away from the track and I cycled along the path that the banksman suggested would keep me away from any operations (after he’d told me I couldn’t as an opening gambit).

Thanks for the feedback, will see whether I can find an email for the RoW officer for that area

[Bearbonesnorm]

Common sense did prevail, they were working 100m away from the track and I cycled along the path that the banksman suggested would keep me away from any operations (after he’d told me I couldn’t as an opening gambit).

Yeah, that's pretty much the way it works in the forests here Ben.

[mattpage]

My understanding is that if they need to close a RoW for harvesting they need to apply for a CRoW closure order. If one existed they would need to put a notice on the start and end of any closure.

In reality in forests where public are not frequent they won't apply.

I'd suggest finding out who they local NRW area manager is, then next time if a query is raised you can just mention CRoW and local area manager and they will shut up I'm sure.

[gairym]

There's a section of road/dirt track just over the border in Italy that is part of a ride I do (did ) often and it's been closed for essential work for the last four years (got to love the Italians sense of urgency).

The diversion is about 4km longer and takes you onto a horrible bit of main road.

Luckily for me the Italian lunch hour seems to extend all the way from mid-morning to late-afternoon and so I've only ever seen people actually working on it once (as I rode past after scaling the fences at either end) and they waved and then radioed ahead to stop the digger dude while I passed.

I miss that ride!

[whitestone]

Years ago we were doing a loop, mid-week, above New Radnor (it's the one in the Mid-Wales MTB guidebook) and came across forestry operations. The banksman just signalled to wait a couple of minutes which we did, then waved us through, a quick "Hi, you OK?, cheers" and we were on our way.

Like most of these situations a lot depends on the attitudes of both sides, the guy in the OP could have had a blazing row with his missus that morning.

[Lazarus]

Agree withthe aboive
Whilst they do need paperwork and to have requested it to block one once you are there there i little is to be gained form excercising your rights when heavy machinery is operating.
All that is required is they allow you to pass in a timely and safe manner so a little bit of human coperation

Only happened to me once and a little bit of pointing out i knew the law and was happy to film their liveried work vehicles blocking the ROW[after they told me to go another way* ] got me through without to much fuss- they were not very cheery wiht me but I was not angry or sweary just pointing out they had to let me through


* i was 2 miles form my car and it was all downhill so i was not keen on a 6-8 mile detour back the way I had come with no warnign signs of work.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Tricky because I think an organisation as big as FC should have it well within their capabilities, whether contracting the work out or not, to sort out RoW diversions, closures etc

It's fine when you get reasonable people on both sides but when the contractor is a plonker about it, then you revert to WTF they haven't done a proper job. Afterall, it's for them to do their jobs properly.

Flip side, some of the forestry machines are pretty lethal. Some of the cabs are effectively bulletproof in case threshing chains or the like are "ejected". Always best to steer clear if in doubt

[Bearbonesnorm]

Flip side, some of the forestry machines are pretty lethal.

When the Sky-lines are rigged up here, you don't want to be within half a mile of them

[whitestone]

Flip side, some of the forestry machines are pretty lethal.

When the Sky-lines are rigged up here, you don't want to be within half a mile of them

A lot of farming kit is also somewhat risky. Back in the 1980s one of the local farmers was mowing grass and the mower suddenly became "unstable". He let the machine spin down and then had a look: one of the bottom plates of the mower was missing. It was eventually located embedded in a tree next to a bridleway half a mile away and about 300ft higher in elevation than the field he'd been mowing.

On another occasion one of the heads from a hedge cutter (misnomer, they don't cut they simply smash with heavy weights) went missing. That was found the following Monday morning when the local primary school opened and the teacher found a hole in her desk There was about a mile between hedge and school.

[Supernova]

In the FoD they just seem to smash away irrespective of whether there's a right of way there or not, often effectively removing it permanently. One has just been destroyed then deer fenced off right behind my house in the last month.

Having said that, I'm alway amazed at how courteous and considerate their contractors are. They must brief them really well.

[benp1]

Bloody hell Bob, that's mental

Whenever you see a hedge that's been "trimmed", if you look closely it's basically just been ripped, not cut. Poor ol' hedge

[psling]

In the FoD they just seem to smash away irrespective of whether there's a right of way there or not, often effectively removing it permanently. One has just been destroyed then deer fenced off right behind my house in the last month.

Whereabouts are you Supernova? I may have been involved in that one

[Supernova]

Buckshaft

[whitestone]

Bloody hell Bob, that's mental

Whenever you see a hedge that's been "trimmed", if you look closely it's basically just been ripped, not cut. Poor ol' hedge

The problem is that "cutting" promotes growth in the wrong place on the hedge and means you end up with a "bush" on stilts with nothing in the base to stop stock pushing through. Leaving the hedge to grow sufficiently that you can then "lay" it. This promotes growth at the base of the stock and along the lower length of the trunk that's been bent over so the hedge remains stockproof.

[psling]

Buckshaft

Interesting area. Very few p.r.o.w. in the woods above Buckshaft, none near the houses. But, historically there are old roads, for example from the old abbey (hence Abbotts Wood) which was on the left of the little lane that goes up opposite Coombe Drive and another from near the end of Buckshaft (off Woodland Rise) going down to Soudley. The one from the old abbey can be traced pretty much to Flaxley Abbey passing close to Dean Hall, one of the older properties in the area.
On Crown land there is usually a dearth of Public Rights of Way and that is true in the FoD although some of the Footpaths that do exist in the FoD are actually relatively recent as part of long-distance trails. I can't think of any Bridleways in the actual Forest itself and unfortunately some of the old historic roads have disappeared under centuries of planting although they can be found on old maps.
For anyone who wants to link up bits of old roads around the edges of the Forest there are some great routes that can be found

Sorry, digressing from the OP - I'm fairly tolerant of forestry works having spent most of my life in a working forest and having connections with contractors (who probably put up your deer fencing supanova!!)

[Bearbonesnorm]

Sorry, digressing from the OP - I'm fairly tolerant of forestry works having spent most of my life in a working forest and having connections with contractors (who probably put up your deer fencing supanova!!)

That probably does play a part Peter. Everyone here kind of knows everyone as it's a widespread but small community. I'm sure that helps with tolerance and helping each other out.

[boxelder]

will see whether I can find an email for the RoW officer for that area

Can't exactly remember how, but I volunteered to become a consultee for the process in the Lakes, so get an email asking for input for applications to close RoW. Forestry England, at least around here, seem really on the ball and above board with it. They've just applied to extend the current closure on the west side of Ennerdale.