Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

[Cheddar Man]

Cardboard is a good insulator, it's why homeless people make houses out of it. If it gets wet though you have a totally uninsulated squidge of mush in your shoe, it's why homeless people make their cardboard houses in doorways or multi-storey car-parks!

If you are not going to try simply unclipping your right foot, then silver foil is the better option if it may get wet, or cardboard wrapped in silver foil for a double whammy.

But seriously, don't solve a non-existent problem, unclip your right foot and all this simply goes away, if it doesn't, it was never the cleats in the first place!

Remember the bullet holes....... In World war 2 the US airforce had a real issue with their aeroplanes getting shot down. They were losing dozens, and the ones that came back were full of bullet holes. So, they armoured the areas where the bullet holes were to make the planes more robust. More got shot down because they were heavier and slower, the ones that came back had even more bullet holes in them, more armour, slower planes, more holes, more armour and so it went on. They invited a guy called Abraham Wald to have a look.
He looked at the problem and said, the armour is in the wrong place, you are solving the wrong problem. He got them to analyse where the bullet holes were, all over the wings and fuselage, but not the cockpit or engine. He realised that if you blew up the engine or shot the pilot the plane didn't come back at all, so putting armour on the areas which meant the plane could continue to fly was pointless, you need to put it where the bullet holes aren't! They armoured the cockpit and engine and guess what? More planes came back.

Your cold feet are like the bullet holes, you are going about fixing the, to you, obvious problem, there is a potential contact point made of metal, it must be that, and ignoring the huge amount of area that is exposed to the elements. You have even highlighted that your left doesn't suffer because for 20 seconds every 20 minutes it doesn't come into contact with the offending metal bolts, completely ignoring the hundreds of other factors that are involved.

If the solution to your left foot coldness is unclipping for 20 seconds, simply unclip your right one too, using your theory, all your problems will simply vanish away in one go, no need for cardboard, merino socks, insoles, overshoes or silver foil and sealant. You won't though because it is too obvious and the cleat isn't really the problem at all!

[Cheeky Monkey]

Ccf is closed cell foam, like what sleeping pads are made of (karrimat style) so pretty good insulator.

Try what you reckon might work Shaff, maybe one at a time, and let us know what works for you.

Meanwhile I'm just looking for the dead cat that seems to need such a good flogging, today of all days

Peace and love

[In Reverse]

unclip your right foot and all this simply goes away, if it doesn't, it was never the cleats in the first place!

this is the best starting point. It could be the case that putting your left foot down onto the floor and weighting it is increasing the circulation to it, sending periodic surges of warm blood around it that your other foot isn't getting. I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who uses the "get off and walk for a bit" tactic when both feet are cold, it definitely works.

[redefined_cycles]

unclip your right foot and all this simply goes away, if it doesn't, it was never the cleats in the first place!

this is the best starting point. It could be the case that putting your left foot down onto the floor and weighting it is increasing the circulation to it, sending periodic surges of warm blood around it that your other foot isn't getting. I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who uses the "get off and walk for a bit" tactic when both feet are cold, it definitely works.

Andy... I have a very limited time window to complete the Rapha500 by exploring as far out as possible of the West Yorkshire district. Mainly road riding so not much time to walk either way.

CheddarMan, its definitely the metal from the pedals (not the cleats as theyre brass) and the cold spot is concentrated to that area. Already done the tests and knew what I needed, which is to create a better barrier between foot and the metal...

Lots of ideas to get on with and I remembered I also have some knackered Dexshell merino to play with too... Much greatful thanks all...

[redefined_cycles]

Oh... its only at the lights that my left foot gets the rest, which is aplenty to get it from getting the cold spot... I've tried and for some reason can't 'unreflex' the action and reverse the order (and am happy with that)...

[Alpinum]

Cardboard is a good insulator, it's why homeless people make houses out of it. If it gets wet though you have a totally uninsulated squidge of mush in your shoe, it's why homeless people make their cardboard houses in doorways or multi-storey car-parks!

Perhaps because it traps air..?
And what happens when you stand on it?
Bubble wrap would seem better.

The answer is not to bury the cleat under expensive insoles, which will get wrecked when they get soaked as you will see they are designed for ski boots which are really waterproof, the answer is insulate your whole foot.

You mean like cardboard? WPICB?

No. Ski boots are not really waterproof.
Some come with a waterproof liner boot, but that's just for marketing, since when skiing, you usually don't walk through streams or moors, but goretex sells well.
Oh wait...

Please, no more saying shoes are waterproof, why do people keep saying that, it should be illegal to market waterproof shoes or gloves. The items are simply are not waterproof because they have huge holes them. The marketing is actually that they are made from fabrics which are waterproof, but the items themselves simply are not!

But I really don't think you know much of what you're talking about.

Very true.




Many good solutions have been mentioned. Risking to repeating them, here some quick thoughts:

- Wear the shoes loosely. Just lightly tightened. This will allow for circulation, which is the single most largest factor. Loosely tightened shoe may give room for a warmer sock.

- Make sure to cover the ankles and lower leg well. As for wrists, we loose a large amount of warmth at those areas.
I'd not focus too much on the type of fibre. Just a warm, form keeping, high cuff sock.

- thermal insole. Brands like Pedag which, at least here abouts, can be bought in many shops, come with quilted wool, closed cell foam and aluminium lining and cost about 5 quid.

- and yes. Despite the small area, the hole in the sole of spd shoes and then the metal parts help the foot loosing warmth. If an option, wear platform pedals and shoes with no holes in the sole.

- move feet/toes. Wiggle toes. Get off on your right foot too. When I loose sensation in my feet I get off my bike and walk. Always helps.
If you can't wiggle your toes, the shoe (/sock) may be too tight/small and thus there'll be a insulation limit which, despite some tricks, can't be pushed (much).

Other options I can think of make sense when out on multiday trips but in a commuting enviroment would add nothing I guess.

[Jurassic]

Going back to the Superfeet insoles, I've not used the red ones (I have a pair on my wishlist for using in my snowboard boots) but have used the green ones for many years in my work boots and footwear at home and they are absolutely brilliant. I had really bad Plantar Fascitis from being on my feet/walking constantly at work and after visits to the doctor failed to resolve the issue (medication) Superfeet were a last resort. The Plantar Fascitis cleared up within a week once I started using the insoles. A few colleagues have had the same problem with their feet and all of them have had success after trying Superfeet. Not sure how effective they'd be for insulation (pretty good I'd imagine) but they're excellent for foot support.

[redefined_cycles]

Going back to the Superfeet insoles, I've not used the red ones (I have a pair on my wishlist for using in my snowboard boots) but have used the green ones for many years in my work boots and footwear at home and they are absolutely brilliant. I had really bad Plantar Fascitis from being on my feet/walking constantly at work and after visits to the doctor failed to resolve the issue (medication) Superfeet were a last resort. The Plantar Fascitis cleared up within a week once I started using the insoles. A few colleagues have had the same problem with their feet and all of them have had success after trying Superfeet. Not sure how effective they'd be for insulation (pretty good I'd imagine) but they're excellent for foot support.

Thanks Jurassic... Agreed... Scholls for about 3 years (similar reasons to yours) and now had the green SF for about 3 years also and just get swapped between shoes.

I've just cut down some merino from the dexshell with the (porelle?) liner and added as a middle layer below the insole.

Gian, yes they've definitely got plenty of wiggle room in there and thats what helped me survive the ride home (slightly under dressed in the trousers dept and no buff with -1 real-feel) with the addition of the jacket to keep some warmth in

Lets see what happens with this merino wool method (cost me nothing as they needed chucking)...

[Lazarus]

I stuck some foam over the cleet metal bit on the insole - I think its an offcut from Stus insulated mug- I did it more to stop hot spots than cold spots but if my foot gets cold its all of it not the bit above the cleat

Overshoes do give warmth but if you have a big winter boot you are goin to need a massive overshoe

I prefer velcro for off road as the zips are not that great in mud /more of pain.

I also personally think if i am out for long enough I will get cold feet at some point and walking is the best way to warm them that I have found.
As for waterproof they are if you seal the hole your leg goes in
My stealth zip over them and you can use gaiters Doubt its any use on a river crossing but i need to be persuaded to do them in summer never mind winter.

[Al]

Shaf - I’ve worn goretex winter spd boots for at least 15 years (I do take them off occasionally) and in that time I’ve had shimano and northwave ones. All of them suffered the cold spot you describe above the clear area once you get close to zero and beyond.

Yes keeping the rest of your foot warm is important, but this is the weak spot all of them share when it gets proper cold.

I think 45th north put quite a lot of thought into eliminating it and you could buy their fancy aerogel inner soles separately for a while (not anymore). I did try to get hold of some 3mm aerogel to try and make my own, but it’s pretty pricey for an experiment.

I’ve had some success in limiting but not eliminating the cold spot with that silver backed bubble wrap insulation stuff under the innersole.

[ton]

reading this with interest.
as someone who has suffered all his life with cold feet and hands, and now has a metal ankle ( immense heat sink) i have got to the stage where nothing keeps my feet warm
i have tried every cycling winter boot. wolvehammers, shimano mw everything, lake winterboots, northwave arctics and all the 5 tens.
i now wear columbia fairbanks boots with flat pedals.
i wore them on wednesday on a very wet ride, and forgot to put them somewhere to dry off.
so yesterday morning they felt a bit damp, and as it was icy at 6am when i was setting off to ride, i didnt put them on.
i went for a pair of bontrager flat shoes and knee length seal skin merino socks.
ohad plans of riding 100 miles. after 25 miles i was in agony with cold feet. i decided to call it a day and return home.
it took me a hour longer to ride home because i had to keep stopping to dance around and try and get my feet warm.
when i got home i had to wrap my feet in a quilt for half hour to get me feeling em again. they were yellow and dead looking the rest of the day.
just done a hour now in my columbia fairbanks boots a knee length wool socks with no cold feet at all.


so ditch the spd shoes, but some flat s and some columbias. i have just ordered somemore.

[Al]

I’d agree with Ton - once it gets cold enough I ditch the spds for insulated merrell walking/snow boot jobs and a flat pedal.
Just wish I didn’t have to

Maybe we could all chip in on a sheet of aerogel?? Think it has the lowest possible thermal conductivity- nasa came up with it for something or other.

[redefined_cycles]

All sorted. Silly heatsink issue gone (thankfully the metal/alloy/whatever) I'm trying to protect from isn't inside my foot

So that Merino waterproof sock, ripped apart and both the merino bit and liner added under the insole. Did a wonderful trick and cost nothing. Will add some alu tape just above the metal for extra good measure when I grt the chance.

The test... Well, similar area ridden as yesterday. Yesterdays was 2c but todays saw 0 temps and patches of ice. Also had to walk through a bridleway muddy path that was iced over. Just not enough that it'd allow a nice ride across without sinking. Pity as I'd almost made plans to go check that Peaks100 out with iced over mud.

Also took same gear as yesterday but didn't use the proofs (jacket and pants) to protect from windchill. Had about 1 hour sleep (,back from night shift at about 1030am) and not much to eat. I also rode a chilly descent with headfreeze withiut slowing down. Feet remained acceptable and comfy...

Thanks eveyone for the invaluable input...

Oh, Tony, regards flatties. Thats what I usually have and they work fantastic for winter. But currently waiting on the Arcteryx replacements (need to update that thread... their customer service suddenly went from ok to 'really good'), so don't wanna spend more just for the sake of it...

Thanks again...

[redefined_cycles]

I’d agree with Ton - once it gets cold enough I ditch the spds for insulated merrell walking/snow boot jobs and a flat pedal.
Just wish I didn’t have to

Maybe we could all chip in on a sheet of aerogel?? Think it has the lowest possible thermal conductivity- nasa came up with it for something or other.

How much would that cost?? Might be up for that

[Al]

Ooh - they do small sheets on Amazon for a tenner!

ChaRLes 1Pc 25X35Cm 3Mm 6Mm 10Mm Super Light Silica Aerogel Sound Insulation Cotton Hydrophobic Mat Material -3mm https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07PHYDWK3/ ... NDF9?psc=1

Delivery time is a bit shocking - probably summer by the time it arrives

[redefined_cycles]

Ooh - they do small sheets on Amazon for a tenner!

ChaRLes 1Pc 25X35Cm 3Mm 6Mm 10Mm Super Light Silica Aerogel Sound Insulation Cotton Hydrophobic Mat Material -3mm https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07PHYDWK3/ ... NDF9?psc=1

Delivery time is a bit shocking - probably summer by the time it arrives

Aha.. and its 3mm thick which would probably mean (used with the insole) compromising circulation. Then back to square one

[Al]

Did you not size up when you bought them? I can fit the silver bubble wrap stuff under the innersole and still manage a decent sock.

[redefined_cycles]

Did you not size up when you bought them? I can fit the silver bubble wrap stuff under the innersole and still manage a decent sock.

The MW5 came with reviewer advice that they didn't need sizing up... so as they are I have plenty of wiggle room but a snug fit (without foot moving about). I reckon if I added 3mm at the sole and then some thick socks I might be nearing the point of circulation restriction (probably wrong though)...

Would one piece fit 4 shoes Al? If so shall we go halves and if it doesn't work out then we've not lost the full £16 on our little experiment... (from Yorkshire, just trying to keep the standards, sorry)...

[Al]

Think a bit that size would do one and a half pairs
To be fair most of the stuff I’ve seen before has been too small or meters of the stuff.

[redefined_cycles]

Think a bit that size would do one and a half pairs
To be fair most of the stuff I’ve seen before has been too small or meters of the stuff.

[ledburner]

"slightly under dressed in the trousers dept and no buff with -1 real-feel)."

Don't wear a kilt
Warm legs - - - > warm feet

Nuf said.

[ledburner]

Ooh - they do small sheets on Amazon for a tenner!

ChaRLes 1Pc 25X35Cm 3Mm 6Mm 10Mm Super Light Silica Aerogel Sound Insulation Cotton Hydrophobic Mat Material -3mm https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07PHYDWK3/ ... NDF9?psc=1

Delivery time is a bit shocking - probably summer by the time it arrives

Aha.. and its 3mm thick which would probably mean (used with the insole) compromising circulation. Then back to square one

Seriously, this Aerogel from Amazon is made out of Glass fibre which is a nasty irritant. You need to seal it in.
Keep safe

[ledburner]

Ooh - they do small sheets on Amazon for a tenner!

ChaRLes 1Pc 25X35Cm 3Mm 6Mm 10Mm Super Light Silica Aerogel Sound Insulation Cotton Hydrophobic Mat Material -3mm https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07PHYDWK3/ ... NDF9?psc=1

Delivery time is a bit shocking - probably summer by the time it arrives

Aha.. and its 3mm thick which would probably mean (used with the insole) compromising circulation. Then back to square one

Seriously, this Aerogel from Amazon is made out of Glass fibre which is a nasty irritant. You need to seal it in.
Keep safe

I or 2mm neoprene foam (self adhesive) would be more durable & cheaper, weigh difference negligible...

[ScotRoutes]

What about that thin foam used as insulation under wood flooring? I have tons of the stuff used over from insulating my van. I think it's 2 or 3mm. Happy to stick some in an envelope if you want to try it.

[Al]

Hmm. Glass fibre in my socks sounds sub-optimal.

Here’s the linky to the 45nrth aerogel inner soles.

https://45nrth.com/blog/post/jaztronaut ... ilable-now

They sandwich the aerogel inside the innersole, so I’m thinking trimming a section of existing innersole foam away around the clear area and sealing a square of aerogel inside the cut away then sealing with gaffa tape.

Or maybe I’ll just take a punt on the underfloor foam stuff kindly offered....!