Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

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redefined_cycles
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Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:20 pm

Anyone got any simple suggestions until I can afford these.

Went out in the Shimano (replacement) MW5 boots this eve and right foot was freezing in just 1 degree C. I put it down to the fact that when I was unclipping I was keeping the right foot locked in. So the cold from the spd pedals was obviously making it's way through.

Double socks might do but they could also might become a bit tight in there (I had the winter version of the merino Dexshell and they are rather warm)... Though I could probably get away with another thin layer to trap warmth...

If I could stop the cold coming through from the spd pedals I reckon it'd be sorted (the actual cleats are brass so shouldnt be causing too much heat sink issues - whatever it's called, you know what I mean).

Thoughts... thanks :smile:

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by Cheddar Man » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:35 pm

I think you trying to solve the wrong problem. The cleats are not the problem, they are small and not in contact with the sole of your foot except through at least two layers. The surface area of a cleat is tiny when compared to how much of your foot is 'exposed'.

The answer is not to bury the cleat under expensive insoles, which will get wrecked when they get soaked as you will see they are designed for ski boots which are really waterproof, the answer is insulate your whole foot.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-extreme-we ... e-overshoe

Much more logical option.

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by sean_iow » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:44 pm

I've always wanted to try these inov8 thermal socks

https://www.inov-8.com/extreme-thermo-sock-high-2

I've no idea if they'd help :lol: overshoes probably would help if you're not doing too much walking in them.
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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by In Reverse » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:48 pm

Cheap foil insoles https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blackrock-Mens ... B00LJ27J16

Cheap neoprene overshoes https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CLPXOSH/p ... -overshoes

should significantly improve your foot warmth for less than £15 Shaf

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by BigdummySteve » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:21 pm

Superfeet insoles are great if you need the support, as for keeping yer feet warm I’m not convinced that they would be the best solution. First port of call would be some nice wool socks, today I waded through some very cold water I’m my XM9’s. Obviously in the two feet deep water, the waterproof boots turned into buckets, after about five miles I stopped and gave them a wringing out, despite the temperature being around 2-3 degrees I was comfy. Cotton socks would have been hell, I used to be a big fan of sealskin type socks but again they always leak eventually, they do have some merit for preventing heat losses from flushing but I’m content with warm and wet being a fair compromise.
You could try a variation of my glove idea, I use various cheap, non-waterproof gloves but wear a pair of vinyl work gloves underneath as a vapour barrier, if it’s really horrible I put another pair on top.
Bread bags would do nicely for the feet, yes your feet will sweat and possibly be stinky given time but I bet you’d be happier than with superfeet insoles in horrible weather, with the money saved you could buy many hot chocolates.
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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:21 pm

Cheddar Man wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:35 pm
I think you trying to solve the wrong problem. The cleats are not the problem, they are small and not in contact with the sole of your foot except through at least two layers. The surface area of a cleat is tiny when compared to how much of your foot is 'exposed'.

The answer is not to bury the cleat under expensive insoles, which will get wrecked when they get soaked as you will see they are designed for ski boots which are really waterproof, the answer is insulate your whole foot.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-extreme-we ... e-overshoe

Much more logical option.
With all due respect Cheddar Man... and I don't mean to be offensive or a 'know it all'... But I really don't think you know much of what you're talking about. Sorry :o

MW5 boots are waterproof. My first pair leaked and so the nice folks at Shimano tested (it was a tiny leak at a seam on one foot) and replaced. Hence they are designed to be waterproof.... and yes, the cleats and pedals with the small portion of metal can act significantly as a heat sink. That might explain why my foot was gerting extra cold at just that spot (but I didn't explain this maybe.. sorry).

Anyway, apologies for apologising so much and I mean no offence... I come in peace :-bd

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:24 pm

In Reverse wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:48 pm
Cheap foil insoles https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blackrock-Mens ... B00LJ27J16

Cheap neoprene overshoes https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CLPXOSH/p ... -overshoes

should significantly improve your foot warmth for less than £15 Shaf
Thanks Andy (or Dave :grin: ), though I'm trying to hate Amazon at the mo, I reckon them foil things might just do my trick. Overshoes are a bit pointless as it'd have been a waste of spending the £140ish on the shoes. Plus, to say prayers for ablution, if the oversock has a big hole in it then I have to remove it. Hence fully enclosed boots are always my go-to for winter...

:smile: Thanks again and lets see how fast Amazon can deliver over this few days... :-bd

Sorry again Cheddar Man (no, seriously)

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:34 pm

BigdummySteve wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:21 pm
Superfeet insoles are great if you need the support, as for keeping yer feet warm I’m not convinced that they would be the best solution. First port of call would be some nice wool socks, today I waded through some very cold water I’m my XM9’s. Obviously in the two feet deep water, the waterproof boots turned into buckets, after about five miles I stopped and gave them a wringing out, despite the temperature being around 2-3 degrees I was comfy. Cotton socks would have been hell, I used to be a big fan of sealskin type socks but again they always leak eventually, they do have some merit for preventing heat losses from flushing but I’m content with warm and wet being a fair compromise.
You could try a variation of my glove idea, I use various cheap, non-waterproof gloves but wear a pair of vinyl work gloves underneath as a vapour barrier, if it’s really horrible I put another pair on top.
Bread bags would do nicely for the feet, yes your feet will sweat and possibly be stinky given time but I bet you’d be happier than with superfeet insoles in horrible weather, with the money saved you could buy many hot chocolates.
Thanks Steve... yes, agreed with the socks idea (in 2016 or 2017 I wore some North Face Gauntlets to Birmigham which were uber-waterproof and kept me dry and warm... but when I arrived at mates house and pulled out the gloves it smelt like a few dead rats... hence breadbags, low low down on things of wants).

Last year I'd been using my Darn Tough merino with the Arcteryx and years before that some Goretex Five Ten Guide Tennies (special order by Banana Feet for me). With no spd for winter riding I never had this issue and after having waited so long for Shimano to sort the leak I'm gonna try and get through this winter with proper cleats :o

Best go order them foil insoles and maybe some more Darn Tough later (instead of wasting on the Superfeet of which the standard are vaguely exciting for me with my wobbly gait)...

As for walking through freezing water, I saw your Strava and wondered how you got through that. Well done, not for me ta :-bd (for really showerey cold rides I have my ME posh over trousers to act like a gaiter...

Thanks again all.

(Sorry again CM :o )

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:38 pm

Just took a look at Amazon delivery.. looks like it'll only arrive for Jan anyway.... Might try and add something to protect the insoles from letting the cold through from the spd :???:

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by ScotRoutes » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:42 pm

Neoprene overshoes do a fantastic job of adding warmth to footwear. I'd definitely not dismiss the idea.

The other, obvious, solution to your problem is to stop using SPDs.

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:58 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:42 pm
Neoprene overshoes do a fantastic job of adding warmth to footwear. I'd definitely not dismiss the idea.

The other, obvious, solution to your problem is to stop using SPDs.
Stopping the spd would work Colin, you're right. But no waterproof flatties at the mo so gonna have to figure out something for the MW5 boots to make em do a decent winter job for a few years.

Reason why something was needed in a hurry was cos I'm trying to get through some reasonable mileage before the end of the year and getting something ordered online wouldn't arrive til January.

Hmmm... Might try some foil or something and maybe grab some cheap neoprene from Halfords to fill the gap :smile:

Thanks all...

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by Jurassic » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:47 pm

I have MW7s which I think are absolute rubbish, one of the biggest wastes of money ever for me. They leak in heavy rain due to the design (water spraying off the front wheel gets through the velcro flap and into the shoe from the top of the goretex liner), they aren't very warm and they quite literally take two weeks to dry our once they're wet. I have managed to make them work to some extent by using Grip Grab gaiters to stop water running down my leg into them and by wearing neoprene overshoes to shield the front of the shoes from high pressure spray coming off the front wheel. In combination with some DeFeet Woolie Boolie socks I can keep warm, dryish feet down to around freezing point but that's more due to the benefit of my ancient, falling apart DHB neoprene overshoes than the Shimano boots. Neoprene overshoes make a huge difference albeit they soon get tatty if you have to HAB in them.

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by Cheddar Man » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:56 pm

redefined_cycles wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:21 pm
Cheddar Man wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:35 pm
I think you trying to solve the wrong problem. The cleats are not the problem, they are small and not in contact with the sole of your foot except through at least two layers. The surface area of a cleat is tiny when compared to how much of your foot is 'exposed'.

The answer is not to bury the cleat under expensive insoles, which will get wrecked when they get soaked as you will see they are designed for ski boots which are really waterproof, the answer is insulate your whole foot.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-extreme-we ... e-overshoe

Much more logical option.
With all due respect Cheddar Man... and I don't mean to be offensive or a 'know it all'... But I really don't think you know much of what you're talking about. Sorry :o

MW5 boots are waterproof. My first pair leaked and so the nice folks at Shimano tested (it was a tiny leak at a seam on one foot) and replaced. Hence they are designed to be waterproof.... and yes, the cleats and pedals with the small portion of metal can act significantly as a heat sink. That might explain why my foot was gerting extra cold at just that spot (but I didn't explain this maybe.. sorry).

Anyway, apologies for apologising so much and I mean no offence... I come in peace :-bd
Really, what bit do you think I don't know what I am talking about? I have feet, two actually, they work, and I use spd's.

Have you ever heard the story about the missing bullet holes?

It is a fantastic example of how people always solve the wrong problem. You see, in your problem you say your feet are getting cold, and the average foot has a surface area of something like 83cm2. The contact point with an spd cleat would be something like 1cm2. But you are reasoning that your cold foot is only because of the metal contact point with, at best, the top of two small bolts, not the absolutely huge surface area that is constantly exposed to the cold and wet. Oh, and if it was the bolts, then your left foot would get cold too!

Please, no more saying shoes are waterproof, why do people keep saying that, it should be illegal to market waterproof shoes or gloves. The items are simply are not waterproof because they have huge holes them. The marketing is actually that they are made from fabrics which are waterproof, but the items themselves simply are not!

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by ledburner » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:15 am

Hi S, I'm sure all suggestion will improve your situation, you want to know which is the most effective.
Without seeing these shoes I can not comment. We generally have foot bigger than the other. I suspect if one shoe has less room then circulation will be slightly worse so one foot becomes colder.
The review of these shoes are not entirely complimentary on the ability to dry out quickly. :sad:
I assume your are using full size guards & mudflaps, any wetting will rapidly increase the cooling rate. From any surface area.
So one of my suggestions Add a mud flap at the bottom of your front guard.l. It really makes a difference & simplifies cleaning... :-bd
A damp boot will be a better 'heat sink' , cooling your foot more, don't dismiss overshoes. The shoes will also dry faster. A bit of a faff, but definitely worth it.
Also to state the obvious, - Don't fasten to tight, them it will Impair good circulation. Unlike walking, the whole foot doesn't flex so the foot has poor circulation. Make sure you have room to Wiggle your toes.
I know your annoy and disappointed with Mr shimano, but don't be 'short' or rude in your replies. They're only Tryng to help.
Good luck D
Alway moving forward some how... Maybe not the direction originally planned :cool: ....
Please be tolerent to spelling mistakes or typos', :oops:
I'm only fluent in one language and English appears to be my 2nd one..
:???: :o

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by ledburner » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:48 am

Hi S, I'm sure all suggestion will improve your situation, you want to know which is the most effective.
Without seeing these shoes I can't comment. We generally have foot bigger than the other. I suspect if one shoe has less room, then circulation will be slightly worse, so the larger foot becomes colder. :cry:
The reviews of these shoes are not entirely complimentary on the ability to dry out quickly.(bikeradar.com & off. road.cc) :sad:
I assume your are using full size guards & mudflaps, any wetting, (ingress or saturating the outer) , will rapidly increase the cooling rate of your feet. That from any surface area, upper or sole.
So one of my suggestions Add a mud flap at the bottom of your front guard
(But you've already done this right?.)
It really makes a difference & simplifies. cleaning... :-bd

A damp boot will be a better 'heat sink', thus cooling your foot more, So don't entirely dismiss overshoes. Your shoes will also dry faster. A bit of a faff, but definitely worth it.

Dry shoes = warmer feet.

Also to state the obvious, - Don't fasten them too them tightly, it will Impair good circulation. Unlike walking, the whole foot doesn't flex so the foot has poor circulation. Make sure you have room to Wiggle your toes.

I know your annoyed and frustrated
with Mr Shitmano, but don't be 'short' or rude in your replies. These guys are only tryng to help.

Good luck D

PS
Failing that, Simon Mountain-feet, Marsden is, an expert at fitting/adapting mountaineering boot, he might have some high spec thermal innersoles. He fits guys (&gals) for Mont Blanc, the Eiger, Nepal etc. No breaking in £500+ a pair., never take off whilst on mountain etc. Just Gotta be right..
Alway moving forward some how... Maybe not the direction originally planned :cool: ....
Please be tolerent to spelling mistakes or typos', :oops:
I'm only fluent in one language and English appears to be my 2nd one..
:???: :o

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by ledburner » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:57 am

Cheddar Man wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:35 pm
....
Please, no more saying shoes are waterproof.... , it should be illegal to market waterproof shoes or gloves. The items are simply are not waterproof because they have huge holes them....
Huge holes, Yeh, How else do we get them on... :-bd :-bd :-bd :lol: :lol: :lol: well said.
Alway moving forward some how... Maybe not the direction originally planned :cool: ....
Please be tolerent to spelling mistakes or typos', :oops:
I'm only fluent in one language and English appears to be my 2nd one..
:???: :o

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:24 am

Cheddar Man wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:56 pm
redefined_cycles wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:21 pm
Cheddar Man wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:35 pm
I think you trying to solve the wrong problem. The cleats are not the problem, they are small and not in contact with the sole of your foot except through at least two layers. The surface area of a cleat is tiny when compared to how much of your foot is 'exposed'.

The answer is not to bury the cleat under expensive insoles, which will get wrecked when they get soaked as you will see they are designed for ski boots which are really waterproof, the answer is insulate your whole foot.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-extreme-we ... e-overshoe

Much more logical option.
With all due respect Cheddar Man... and I don't mean to be offensive or a 'know it all'... But I really don't think you know much of what you're talking about. Sorry :o

MW5 boots are waterproof. My first pair leaked and so the nice folks at Shimano tested (it was a tiny leak at a seam on one foot) and replaced. Hence they are designed to be waterproof.... and yes, the cleats and pedals with the small portion of metal can act significantly as a heat sink. That might explain why my foot was gerting extra cold at just that spot (but I didn't explain this maybe.. sorry).

Anyway, apologies for apologising so much and I mean no offence... I come in peace :-bd
Really, what bit do you think I don't know what I am talking about? I have feet, two actually, they work, and I use spd's.

Have you ever heard the story about the missing bullet holes?

It is a fantastic example of how people always solve the wrong problem. You see, in your problem you say your feet are getting cold, and the average foot has a surface area of something like 83cm2. The contact point with an spd cleat would be something like 1cm2. But you are reasoning that your cold foot is only because of the metal contact point with, at best, the top of two small bolts, not the absolutely huge surface area that is constantly exposed to the cold and wet. Oh, and if it was the bolts, then your left foot would get cold too!

Please, no more saying shoes are waterproof, why do people keep saying that, it should be illegal to market waterproof shoes or gloves. The items are simply are not waterproof because they have huge holes them. The marketing is actually that they are made from fabrics which are waterproof, but the items themselves simply are not!
Fair enough. Like I said, I do - seriously - apologise. Think I must have been having a brief cold foot moment ...

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:29 am

Dan... the chap in Marsden, I'll remember that if needed...

Gonna cut down some merino wool socks and create a little liner for under the inner-soles and stick this https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paint ... 80961.html to the inside of the boots around the heatsink...

CM, its definitely the metal from the pedals. Might not seem like much. Reason why the right foot was colder was becuase I hadn't unclipped for many many stops when I'd allowed the left foot to rest at lights. Plus the cold spot was concentrated around where the cleat sits...

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by Cheddar Man » Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:52 am

redefined_cycles wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:29 am
Dan... the chap in Marsden, I'll remember that if needed...

Gonna cut down some merino wool socks and create a little liner for under the inner-soles and stick this https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paint ... 80961.html to the inside of the boots around the heatsink...

CM, its definitely the metal from the pedals. Might not seem like much. Reason why the right foot was colder was becuase I hadn't unclipped for many many stops when I'd allowed the left foot to rest at lights. Plus the cold spot was concentrated around where the cleat sits...
So, instead of ruining some merino socks, or buying expensive footbeds, why not just unclip your right foot too? Unclipping your left stops it getting cold, so unclip your right too and see if it helps. If it doesn't, it is isn't the cleats, if it does, then you have solved your problem.

Why spend money on an expensive solution to a problem that does not need solving?

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by Cheddar Man » Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:55 am

ledburner wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:57 am
Cheddar Man wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:35 pm
....
Please, no more saying shoes are waterproof.... , it should be illegal to market waterproof shoes or gloves. The items are simply are not waterproof because they have huge holes them....
Huge holes, Yeh, How else do we get them on... :-bd :-bd :-bd :lol: :lol: :lol: well said.
Exactly! People obsess about their waterproof shoes or gloves leaking, without thinking about all the water that runs down your legs or arms, or floods over the top when you wade through a river :roll:

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:57 am

Have you the room to put a bit of cardboard beneath your insoles Shaf? It's a good insulator.
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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:46 am

If you have room you could also try a "volume filler" insole. They're CCF or something similar so probably good insulator and will be more durable in wet.

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:58 am

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:57 am
Have you the room to put a bit of cardboard beneath your insoles Shaf? It's a good insulator.
Stu... I had been thinking summat similar. Maybe a square frame around the cleat area made with some of the one-wrap velcro I have some spare of (that's a mouthful, soz). That way it'd raise it up slightly and stop the ball of foot contacting that area as much.

The merino socks idea would also cost me nowt as they're ready to have a hole develop through em any minute now. Will try giving one/both of them ideas a shot today... Oh, yes I do indeed have space inside the shoe to fill some volume without restricting blood flow :-bd

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by redefined_cycles » Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:58 am

Cheeky Monkey wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:46 am
If you have room you could also try a "volume filler" insole. They're CCF or something similar so probably good insulator and will be more durable in wet.
CCF=

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Re: Simplest/cheapest way to increase the 'cold-temp' of spd boots

Post by voodoo_simon » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:18 am

redefined_cycles wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:20 pm
Anyone got any simple suggestions until I can afford these.

Went out in the Shimano (replacement) MW5 boots this eve and right foot was freezing in just 1 degree C. I put it down to the fact that when I was unclipping I was keeping the right foot locked in. So the cold from the spd pedals was obviously making it's way through.
If it’s down to simply that’s the foot that’s not unclipping, then the cheapest solution would be to alternate which foot unclips?

I’ve used Crank Brothers for 15 years or so (Shimano before that) and I don’t believe that much cold gets through the cleat to the foot.

Don’t do your boots up tight, this will allow the blood to circulate better. This has made a huge difference to my foot warmth in the winter, feels strange at first to have a boots that are a bit slack but you soon get used to it

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