Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

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RIP
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Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by RIP » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:54 pm

Just got an email from UK Gov about the proposed "Trespass Criminalisation Bill". (Surely they've got more pressing issues to deal with!!)

Pleeeeeze take 2 minutes and respond to the survey. It's not the same as the one we did a while ago. If you're not sure what all this is about have a look at viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17971. It's a slightly confusing thread because it also includes discussions about Right To Roam, but of course RTR and Trespass are inextricably interlinked.

It sounds like they've taken note of the enormous backlash from outdoors fans and may well backtrack on the ridiculous plan to criminalise all trespass - including your cheeky bivvy spot in a remote wood on a remote hillside.


PLEEEEEZ DO THE SURVEY!

This is the email I received:

"Dear 'Reg',

You recently signed the petition “Don’t criminalise trespass”:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300139

MPs on the Petitions Committee have scheduled this petition for debate on Monday 25 January. The debate will be led by Committee member Katherine Fletcher MP, and a Minister from the Home Office will respond for the Government.
Watch live from 4.30pm on Mon 25 Jan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Nfs4F39l8

Read the transcript (published shortly after the debate ends): https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-01-25

Share your views:

To inform the debate, the Committee would like to hear how the proposed criminalisation of trespass would affect you, and what alternative actions could be taken to address concerns about illegal encampments.

Share your views by completing this short survey: https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/KX8ZO2/.

Thanks,

The Petitions team

UK Government and Parliament"
Last edited by RIP on Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:16 pm

:-bd
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Karl
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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by Karl » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:29 pm

Done. It's really hard to give a clear line in the sand on what would be allowed. Seeing the mess left in the summer around here of wanna be campers it easy to see how the trespass bill has come about without really understanding what the problems are.

Whats interesting to see is that campervans have been allowed to park near mam tor during the pandemic giving them somewhere to stay, doesn't seem to be any extra rubbish left behind. Over in the Goyt valley tents, fires, bottles have been left over the summer by louts not actually needing a place to stay but deciding to have a party instead. Minorities cause problems that the majority have to sort/live with.

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by lune ranger » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:40 pm

Done.

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by redefined_cycles » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:53 pm

Filled it... wasn't very cooperative with my dyslexia...

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by MuddyPete » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:04 pm

Thanks for the prompt.
Done.
May you always have tail wind.

Al
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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by Al » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:33 pm

Done.
Hope this doesn’t become another he r bit of depressing legislation snuck through the back door while we’re all looking the other way.

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by Wotsits » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:38 pm

Done!
Ever Feel Like You're Being Orbited?!

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by RIP » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:55 pm

Good stuff folks. Fair points Karl re recent messes and "fly campers", I know we discussed a lot of those points, but consensus seems to be there's enough existing powers to deal with that problem without the Criminal Trespass sledgehammer. Police don't want it either!
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by Raggedstone » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:53 pm

Also done , and made the point about existing legislation .

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by pistonbroke » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:03 am

For a second I thought the thread title was about the guy who tried to walk in a straight line across Wales and you tubed it. Don't think he was called William though :roll:

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by thenorthwind » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:14 am

Done.

The Right to Roam campaign are also asking people to ask their MP to take part in the debate on the 25th of January and represent their views.
RIP wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:55 pm
consensus seems to be there's enough existing powers to deal with that problem without the Criminal Trespass sledgehammer. Police don't want it either!
Yup. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... -foi-shows
Mentioned this in my response also.

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by RIP » Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:20 am

pistonbroke wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:03 am
For a second I thought the thread title was about the guy who tried to walk in a straight line across Wales and you tubed it. Don't think he was called William though :roll:
Yeah that was dead good, I think he's done some other daft stuff so will have another look later.
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

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mje25
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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by mje25 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:09 am

Done!

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by RIP » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:11 am

Probing a bit further they might be watering it down to cover 'trespass with intent to reside', which lets ramblers etc off the hook. 'Reside' is defined as "have one's permanent home in a particular place" and 'resting up whilst on a journey' isn't that so perhaps we'll be ok. Still, better prod your MP into doing the right thing.
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

Lazarus
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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by Lazarus » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:30 am

oh yes they are coming for the travellers not us but that does not make it right. You need to deal with reality and the solution is for councils, as required by law, to provde sites but NIMBY ism stops it
Its 6 years + for the site in my local area for example and its still not allowed.

Bit like those who leave a mess when "camping" if you gave them free spots you wont errdicate the "problem" but you can manage reality.
Travellers wont stop and neither will wild camping whatever they do with legislation so you are in no way making the problem any less you are just making it worse.

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by htrider » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:45 pm

Well I'm a regular south of the Border so I've filled it in. It does seem to be focusing mainly on dealing with travelers but its the unintended consequences of such bills that get me worked up.....

Interesting it makes mention of land reform. Now that would be something worth pushing for!

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by RIP » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:16 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:30 am
oh yes they are coming for the travellers not us but that does not make it right.
Yes, sorry, that didn't come out quite right. I just filled in a response that I thought the whole idea was wrong/unnecessary, but of course they're doing the classic "start off all-enveloping then backtrack to what they actually want, so that the majority who 'would' have been affected then out of relief then gang up on or scapegoat the poor minority who were the original target all along". It's insidious - affected my wording above and I didn't even realise it!
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by Supernova » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:41 pm

Done.
Even if it’s just the travellers who are initially targeted, it’ll be everybody else soon enough once landowners get the bit between their teeth.

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by whitestone » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:44 pm

Those who currently litter/fly tip/trash things are already breaking one or more laws so why would they take note of another?
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by Cheddar Man » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:48 pm

whitestone wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:44 pm
Those who currently litter/fly tip/trash things are already breaking one or more laws so why would they take note of another?
That is sad but true isn't it?

Anyway, all done.

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:03 pm

Looks like it becomes law next week then?
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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by redefined_cycles » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:49 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:03 pm
Looks like it becomes law next week then?
Where'd you get that info from please Stu (sorry if it's obvious and I'm not looking properly) as I can only see the govt report on gov.uk, which states everything will be finalised in a few more months...

Wonder if this has anything to do with arrr Bill becoming the biggest landowner in the US (to help reduce carbon emissions and get people eating his laser-printed steaks apparently) so all the evil-meateaters can stop polluting the environment (dunno which emoticon to use here so I'll just do a) ! *

*ir maybe I just have too much time on my hands

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by RIP » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:15 pm

Yep was reading about that earlier. They're now limiting it to 'travellers who won't move on after a warning' (no I'm not suggesting 'so that's alright then', before anyone shouts :wink:).
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

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Re: Update on Trespass Bill - help needed!

Post by RIP » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:18 pm

"Ministers will define trespass in a way that does not penalise walkers [bikers? horses? etc?] who enter private land and does not restrict the right to roam".
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

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