Cold weather tips

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ledburner
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by ledburner »

In a severe gale the wind pressure alone will compress down and loose or bat synthetic insulation. A fleece though bulkier, (so shunned by the UL crowd), will compress less do overall keep you warmer. :-bd
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woodsmith
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by woodsmith »

I've found that having sufficient high energy food to eat helps enormously. If you've got enough energy reserves to keep pushing hard you can generate enough heat to keep you warm into quite cold conditions. Once it's gone and you're forced to slow down is when problems can really start.
Al
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by Al »

woodsmith wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:53 pm I've found that having sufficient high energy food to eat helps enormously. If you've got enough energy reserves to keep pushing hard you can generate enough heat to keep you warm into quite cold conditions. Once it's gone and you're forced to slow down is when problems can really start.
Or a mechanical.

I know it’s been done recently on another thread - but these days I always carry a primaloft gilet. Even on local day rides.
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whitestone
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by whitestone »

The primaloft jacket is mentioned in the first post of this thread.

Not biking related but if you search on YouTube for "Shug Emery" he has a winter camping/kit set of videos. He lives in Wisconsin so cold means effin' freezin' :lol:

Edit - https://www.youtube.com/user/shugemery/ ... ery=winter
Last edited by whitestone on Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Scud
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by Scud »

As someone who has suffered severe frostbite, although it was working in a poultry abattoir as a student, and hypothermia as a squaddie, neither is much fun!

The top tips given to me over the years that all i can think of to add to the above:

- Your sleeping bag insulation whether it be down or synthetic is there to trap heat, so it works best when you get into your sleeping bag warm, so before climbing in have a warm drink, remove any wet items and do squats or burpees.

- Use the remaining warm water from your drink above in your water bottle inside a spare sock, and place it between your thighs next to your femoral artery.

- Have a little something to eat before climbing in your bag as digestion helps keep the metabolism going.

- Leave water bottles and gas canisters upside down as the contents freeze from top down..

- Always use lithium batteries and try to keep them warm at all times if possible.

Random facts that came to mind... no doubt will think of others shortly...
ScotRoutes
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by ScotRoutes »

I took a hot water bottle last night. It's titanium and came in a matching neoprene sleeve. It was lovely crawling into a warm sleeping bag.
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whitestone
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by whitestone »

The hot water bottle trick is worthwhile - don't use boiling water though :shock: Also if you have a plastic bottle check that it you use can handle the temperatures - you don't want it deforming/melting and then leaking all over you and your insulation!

A couple of things not mentioned so far are: time and concentration.

You have to concentrate in cold (and hypothermic inducing) temperatures. You can't just assume that things will continue as they are or that they will be OK. So you need to monitor things like extremities, core temperature, moisture, etc. on a constant basis and make adjustments in a timely manner.
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The Cumbrian
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by The Cumbrian »

It's also wise to monitor your hydration. I was taught that if you're dehydrated then your blood is more viscous and can't get through the surface capillaries as easily, which can encourage the onset of frostbite. If you make the snow yellow when you urinate, it's time to have a drink.
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whitestone
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by whitestone »

Not sure about being dehydrated thickening the blood, the body is very good at keeping things inside close limits and there's a mass of water in our cells that can be utilised. Cold air is dry air so you do lose more moisture than you realise.

One point I read somewhere is that you need fluid to aid digestion so even if you ate "properly" you still need enough water to get in to your system otherwise it just sits in your stomach making you feel bloated. I haven't seen anything "cold" related about this so it's only supposition but if you ain't getting the energy in then you are going to get cold.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Kind of touched on in a few places already but - A wet, windy +2 degrees will likely feel colder and be harder work to function in that a still, crisp -10. I think people are often guided solely by temp figures and thus can underestimate just how severe conditions within the UK's upland rangers can get.

I've seen people slip into hypothermia in conditions like these and I'm fairly certain that although perhaps only a few miles from a road or farm, had they being on their own, then they'd likely now be dead.
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The Cumbrian
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by The Cumbrian »

whitestone wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:09 am Not sure about being dehydrated thickening the blood, the body is very good at keeping things inside close limits and there's a mass of water in our cells that can be utilised. Cold air is dry air so you do lose more moisture than you realise.
It seemed a little odd to me too, but it's what we were taught on the British Antarctic Survey first aid / cold injuries course. Straight after that the doctor showed a graph that illustrated how fast your "extremity" can get frostbite if you don't urinate as quickly and efficiently as possible.
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whitestone
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by whitestone »

A couple of "cold" tales.

I was working in the Middle East when it hit 55C :shock: (we knew it was genuine as all flights were suspended, when it was 51/51C the authorities would say it was 50C and let flights continue ...) my colleague announced: "I've now worked in a 100C temperature range!" It turned out that six months earlier he'd been working for the British Antarctic Survey and had been out in -46C.

A friend got frostbite when climbing the Mittelegi Ridge on the Eiger in winter. He got back to this country and the local doctor told him to "rub snow on to it". So he headed to the local general hospital. He said he knew he was in good hands when the consultant's first question was: "What route were you doing?" :-bd
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whitestone
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by whitestone »

The cool weather over the last few days has let me try out a few things plus a point or two I'd forgotten or couldn't remember the actual term.

Did a couple of rides on the fat bike in temps of -1C to 1C with a stiff northerly wind. The first was very steady, basically not getting out of breath, while the second though shorter was much harder with "intervals", AKA hills. The first ride was basically steady all day speed, the speed most of us are likely to ride for a full day's riding whilst chatting. The second ride wasn't that much harder: but looking at my HR data the distribution is completely different, hopefully the two links are accessible:

Easy ride https://intervals.icu/activities/4534711471/hr
Harder ride https://intervals.icu/activities/4538748992/hr

Dressed the same but had arm warmers for the easier ride but not for the second because I knew I'd be warmer, using zips and buffs to moderate things when stopping/going down hill. Not much difference in how hands and feet felt, maybe a little cooler on the steady ride, but it was noticeable that when I finished just how quickly I cooled down on the latter ride.

Sticking a light duvet on after the first was enough to keep me warm. Not on the second, my base layer was quite damp - not wet or soaked but definitely damp. I needed to be changed ASAP so as not to get seriously cold.

The above comparison provides me with some data that I can use in future. I can also use the rides as a base to compare different clothing systems, etc.

Also, I compared socks, I wasn't sure if the pair I was using were letting my feet get cold so went with an odd pair to check if it was the case. It was probably mild damp but my feet weren't cold or damp to the touch. Needs further investigation, and a new pair of socks - I've some big holes in one pair :roll:

Something I couldn't recall when I did the first post was about adding things like electrolyte powders to your water. Generally it's not a good idea. The term used on the training camp was "Homogeneous Nucleation", it's not really if you look at the technical definition but the end effect is the same. The electrolyte molecules each provide a nucleation point where ice formation begins so the whole container effectively freezes at once, i.e. you get an expensive Slush Puppy! :lol:

This link [url]https://arcticultra.de/gear/[url] about kit is biased towards Montane kit but the principles hold whatever.
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Boab
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by Boab »

whitestone wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:55 pm Something I couldn't recall when I did the first post was about adding things like electrolyte powders to your water. Generally it's not a good idea. The term used on the training camp was "Homogeneous Nucleation", it's not really if you look at the technical definition but the end effect is the same. The electrolyte molecules each provide a nucleation point where ice formation begins so the whole container effectively freezes at once, i.e. you get an expensive Slush Puppy! :lol:
That's one thing I struggle with on long winter rides. It's horrible drinking freezing cold water, even if it's just a sip every five minutes, rather than a big gulp every fifteen. I know I don't drink enough and often end up dehydrated, and struggling at the end.
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whitestone
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by whitestone »

I've a Revelate Wampak - https://backcountry.scot/product/revela ... ns-wampak/ but I probably got the last one that Andy had in stock as I've not seen it "in stock" since I got mine off him. Basically it's a slimmed down Camelbak type sack that has plain fabric next to your back but some insulation, I think it's Reflectix or similar, on the outside. Sits underneath your outer layer. I used it on the Rovaniemi in 2019, you do look a bit of a hunchback with it!

Review of same - https://fat-bike.com/2016/06/revelate-d ... eitenbach/
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ScotRoutes
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by ScotRoutes »

K1100T wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:25 pm
whitestone wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:55 pm Something I couldn't recall when I did the first post was about adding things like electrolyte powders to your water. Generally it's not a good idea. The term used on the training camp was "Homogeneous Nucleation", it's not really if you look at the technical definition but the end effect is the same. The electrolyte molecules each provide a nucleation point where ice formation begins so the whole container effectively freezes at once, i.e. you get an expensive Slush Puppy! :lol:
That's one thing I struggle with on long winter rides. It's horrible drinking freezing cold water, even if it's just a sip every five minutes, rather than a big gulp every fifteen. I know I don't drink enough and often end up dehydrated, and struggling at the end.
I have a set of Raceface bib-shorts that are designed to be worn under baggies but have a pocket on the back for a Camelbak. I bought them for winter use, reckoning that keeping he water close to my back (and hose exiting under my clothing) would keep the hose from freezing as it normally does. It works after a fashion but the pocket will only take a smaller Camelbak and it's a bugger trying to extract and replace it while you're actually wearing the garment. So, OK for shorter/day rides, not so good for bigger stuff.
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thenorthwind
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Re: Cold weather tips

Post by thenorthwind »

This thread came to mind when I was reading one of Andy Kirkpatrick's many social media posts on the topic of clothing/equipment: https://www.instagram.com/p/CJdKpjajPs3/ They're not all related to cold, though a lot of them are about extreme cold, and there's a climbing bias obviously, but plenty of stuff relevant to us. He doesn't mince his words, and has strong opinions, but his views on what works are interesting and he's plenty experienced.
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