It's a shame ...

[Bearbonesnorm]

Someone emailed me last night with details of a job. It's for the Cambrian Mountain authority and they're looking at the prospect of devising new walking and cycling routes within the area. Ooh, I thought, that's right up my street but the more I read, the more hoops and red tape appeared and it dawned on me that this is largely a feasibility study and not a practical project. My experience of these things is that very little if anything will actually come to pass. BTW, that's borne from direct experience

They're paying £15k for someone to do this, which is a shame because I'm fairly sure that I could actually deliver a finished article for that amount - mapped, signed and publicised This isn't a rant, not even a mild one, it's just that it makes me sad to see an opportunity wasted.

[RIP]

'Dream job' - sort of, as you say. Make them an offer with your £15k pitch and see what they say! Something different to do on a wet Wednesday anyway...

[RIP]

Did it say just 'devising' or 'implementing' as well? World of difference .

[Bearbonesnorm]

It's purely a study Reg. Sadly, this area is very good at finding money for such things, yet I've never seen a single one that was conducted by the public sector amount to anything more than 20 pieces of paper on a desk.

[In Reverse]

Maybe those other things weren't feasible, hence the need for more feasibility assessments?

[Lazarus]

That s because feasibiity costs 15k andbut what are the implementation costs ? How much woud it costs far for example to sign the routes, publicise , do maps etc

[Bearbonesnorm]

Maybe those other things weren't feasible, hence the need for more feasibility assessments?

I get what you're saying Andy but with most of these things I've seen locally (even involved in some previously), it's blindingly obvious whether or not they're feasible / practical / possible with the simple application of a few minutes thought and perhaps 3 or 4 phone calls. Many of the people involved aren't practical people. They're not used to having to get sh1t done. They're used to sitting down and talking about getting sh1t done while ultimately never getting any sh1t done at all.

That s because feasibiity costs 15k andbut what are the implementation costs ? How much woud it costs far for example to sign the routes, publicise , do maps etc

As I've said Jon, I don't see why you couldn't implement the thing for £15k (no Reg, thousands) as long as you weren't required to clear paths, resurface tracks etc. There's enough of a maintained network to mean you shouldn't have to.

[sean_iow]

it's blindingly obvious whether or not they're feasible / practical / possible with the simple application of a few minutes thought and perhaps 3 or 4 phone calls.

Us consultants wouldn't make much of a living producing a feasibility study like that

I heard that a local authority (who I'll not name) spent £20k on a report to decide if they could call a chain ferry the 'Floating Bridge' so they could paint it on the side Seeing as the £7M (million Reg) ferry* has repeatably broken down since coming into service that £20k is loose change

*It's not a bridge despite what the consultants said but if I guess if you pay enough they'll tell you what ever you want, for that kind of money I write a report saying they can call it Sean

[In Reverse]

it's blindingly obvious whether or not they're feasible / practical / possible with the simple application of a few minutes thought and perhaps 3 or 4 phone calls. Many of the people involved aren't practical people. They're not used to having to get sh1t done. They're used to sitting down and talking about getting sh1t done while ultimately never getting any sh1t done at all.

I was being mildly facetious tbf Stu

I spend an unfortunate amount of my working life dealing with local authority highways depts (periodically includes the PRoW types) and "they're a mixed bag" is about the kindest thing I can say.

Every word I've quoted there is painfully accurate in a lot of cases.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Consultants - "people who look at your watch and tell you the time". So often and so sadly true, sometimes

And just in case anyone has a thin skin about this, bite me, because I am one (though I occasionally get things done*). Oh, and nearly 2 decades of volunteer trail work and advocacy for riding, particularly working with (alright, it doesn't always feel like that ) the Forestry Commission.

If you really wanted Stu you could contact them and see if you can persuade them to do it differently? Good luck! Shy bairns, sweets and all that. In any case, whilst I sympathize with your viewpoint, a passionate person driving the first stage might be just want is needed (certainly better than some other poorly qualified potential appointment who doesn't really care if the project lives or dies).

I always reckon better to be pissing out of the tent than into it**

Sometimes you can only get funding for feasibility assessment, and other times you can't get main project funding if you haven't proved the case for what you want to do (that *should* be the FA and a bit of consultation, but don't rely on it). Other times FA is just to appease but with little intention of doing it, other times it is there as a fireguard to *protect* the local authority / elected members and it's sometimes necessary to deal with those that might be categorised as NIMBYs or (and particularly if they might be influential)a vocal minority. And just occasionally it's a worthwhile process that refines the project and makes it better














* weeellllll, write a brief and then watch other people do it on behalf of the client

** fuk me, herendeth the sermon

[Bearbonesnorm]

I hear you Tim but I just can't bring myself to set forth down that road. I don't function well with all it entails - it usually results in someone getting told

[Cheeky Monkey]

I hear you Tim but I just can't bring myself to set forth down that road. I don't function well with all it entails - it usually results in someone getting told

I don't blame you chief. I agree sometimes it's the better bet to know, not exactly your limitations, but definitely what is most likely to end in a Falling Down scenario

[Cheeky Monkey]

I just saw this and thought , well ..........

[Bearbonesnorm]

In truth, it's not really my health I'm protecting

[Cheeky Monkey]

[fatbikephil]

Unfortunately in todays world, funding is only allocated to projects that have a sound feasibility and business case. Orgs like Sustrans now make you jump through an excessive amount of hoops before they will award funding. This is all down to increased demands (from the voting public) for transparency and advocacy when public money is spent. Councils themselves have little or no money for countryside access projects so it all has to be funded externally and as a glitzy capital scheme rather than as ongoing maintenance and management (which is the sensible way to do path stuff). I mind the good old days when I worked for Sustrans. One day we received a cheque for £150k in the post from the then Lothian Regional Council to build a bit of the Edinburgh to Glasgow cycle route in West Lothian. It was their underspent cycleways budget for that financial year..... A year later there was a massive scandal relating to Councils paying external agencies and contractors without going through proper channels and everything got tightened up.

I got a job with Fife Council 12 years ago, a chunk of which was to develop a cycle route between Kirkcaldy and St. Andrews for which £2million was allocated. In between me being offered the job and starting it, Councilors re-allocated this to a rail link between Kirkcaldy and Leven. This is democracy. This money then sat idle until earlier this year and now the Government is promoting the rail link at a cost of £50million.

Apply for it and ask if they have any idea of what the future funding is

[tobasco]

Send them a link to Strava heat maps. Job done. Where do I send the invoice

[BigdummySteve]

I suspect your right Stu, but just imagine if something came of it? You personally have the knowledge and also would have huge support and willing help from us lot. I’d say it’s got to be worth a shot, if the knobheadery gets too bad you can walk away, someone is going to get that job, most likely someone less qualified and who cares less.

[RIP]

^ yeah go on . We're right behind you.

I remember you once said you were in some tourismo meeting, sorry workshop, or other (see, you do go to them ), and someone asked you what there was round there to attract visitors and you said "nothing" and meant it literally not ironically. Or summat like that anyroad. I loved that. One of my favourite advertising slogans of all time.

[RIP]

Bet you wish you hadn't mentioned it now but you know what we're like .

[belugabob]

Many of the people involved aren't practical people. They're not used to having to get sh1t done. They're used to sitting down and talking about getting sh1t done while ultimately never getting any sh1t done at all.

Don't forget "getting sh1t done, sh1tly"

[In Reverse]

*checks watch*

how's the job application going Stu?

[Bearbonesnorm]

I remember you once said you were in some tourismo meeting, sorry workshop, or other (see, you do go to them ), and someone asked you what there was round there to attract people and you said "nothing" and meant it literally not ironically. Or summat like that anyroad. I loved that. One of my favourite advertising slogans of all time.

Aye Reg - they really couldn't understand that their usp is nothing. I tried to explain that the visitors that do come here are largely drawn here because there is nothing. Once they started to provide some (let's be honest) half-arsed tourist attractions, then they would potentially see an overall decline in tourism having turned the place into a clone of every other tin-pot destination. They really did struggle with that one

how's the job application going Stu?

I've actually spoken to the bloke who sent me the details earlier this afternoon. I explained my misgivings and in return, he simply said "what you read it all? Well done, I completely glazed over after the first few paragraphs"

[johnnystorm]

I can't recall the actual figure but my hazy memory of what it cost to put enough sign posts around Tunstall Forest for a 9 mile loop would lead me to believe that £15k wouldn't go far.

[RIP]

spoken to the bloke....

I'm having serious difficulty here getting through all of today's weirdness.