What's the best for gravelw*nking - 700 or 650B

[Cheeky Monkey]

A question out of idle curiosity and because I have never ridden 650B (tick - 26, 29, 700). It occurs in part because I'm waiting a PX Goldrush and it comes in 700-flavour but can do 650 and the one I had before (Alpkit Camino) also seems to be sold in both variations so it's clearly a "thing".

Which one is best and, if you care to expand, why?

Particularly interested to hear if someone has tried both sizes in the same frame, particularly if it was one of the curly-bar'd, cyclo-cross, gravelwanky persuasion. Swapping them round on an MTB doesn't seem the same, on casual consideration.

If it is important, I'd rather the wanger rode better off road than on and off-road stuff would typically be Yorkshire and Cumbria. It's not going to be insane distances and mega-tech-to-the-gnar (well, it might, but only IMO / eyes / mind).

<Ron Swanson>
Please and thank you.
<Ron Swanson>

PS - if this has been covered elsewhere before then feel free to point/link. I have not looked and was interested in what folks here had to say

[Bearlegged]

Already covered here, the initial post looks like it's from a familiar author!

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16244

[Cheeky Monkey]

Already covered here, the initial post looks like it's from a familiar author!

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16244

If I had any shame I'd delete this but stuff it, maybe it'll make someone laugh as much as I just did.

Seems my brain is fast approaching its "senior years"

[Bearbonesnorm]

When I first built my Arkose in a land far away, I fitted 700c shod with 35c tyres and it was good. Some time later, I fitted some 40c tyres and it was better again - however, this could've been a result of different / better tyres.

Then, I decided to fit 650b wheels and 2" tyres. I did so as an experiment and to hopefully prove that it was viable ... at the time, some folk were saying that it couldn't be done (maybe they just thought it shouldn't be done). Anyway, it worked very well and transformed the bike. The trails beneath my tyres came alive and I seemed to hop, skip and float above the rocks and ruts*

*true story.

[Cheeky Monkey]

When I first built my Arkose in a land far away, I fitted 700c shod with 35c tyres and it was good. Some time later, I fitted some 40c tyres and it was better again - however, this could've been a result of different / better tyres.

Then, I decided to fit 650b wheels and 2" tyres. I did so as an experiment and to hopefully prove that it was viable ... at the time, some folk were saying that it couldn't be done (maybe they just thought it shouldn't be done). Anyway, it worked very well and transformed the bike. The trails beneath my tyres came alive and I seemed to hop, skip and float above the rocks and ruts*

*true story.

New puppy makes Stu go all warm and fluffy - you saw it here first folks

Come on man lets see the beast (I guess you might not have her yet).

[jameso]

If it is important, I'd rather the wanger rode better off road than on

Add volume first, next add OD if possible w/o undermining the overall geometry or fit needs.

650B (high volume) deals with high frequency low amplitude stuff better. 29ers or 29+ cope well off-road as they have the volume for the fast small bumps and the OD for roll-over.

If your off-road is open, faster tracks with a lot of chatter type bumps and you want a fairly road-like feel on tarmac still then 650B x 47-52mm is great imo, my gravel bike has used both but I've stuck with 650B in the end. 700C x 50mm or bigger helps if there's rocky stuff too but then you're into rigid 29er vs gravel/drop bars etc. And potential geometry black holes

[Cheeky Monkey]

Thanks James, useful stuff. Keep your crazy geo stuff out of this tho, I cant even remember that I'd already asked this question

[ScotRoutes]

Personal experience.


I have 3 wheelsets for my #gradventourer.

(a) Hope/Mavic 719, 700c. These usually wear 28mm Conti GP4Seasons and I'd consider them my "touring" wheels (also my winter wheels fitted with spiky Schwalbes). I'll use these if it's a long tarmac route. Might even consider hardpack cycle tracks.

(b) Prolite 700c. These have tubeless WTB Nano 40s. I use these for short, "fast", local forest rides. They have just about enough grip for good conditions and aren't too bad on the road.

(c) Shimano/Superstar 650b. These are currently fitted with 47mm WTB Byways. They are easily the most flexible option, coping with rough roads, gravel tracks, a bit of sloppiness and are supremely comfortable. Not as easy-pedalling as the 4Seasons, not as knobbly/grippy as the Nanos. I currently have some 47mm Teravail Rutlands on order as I reckon they'll give me enough grip for a wider range of conditions and remain comfortable.


If you were to ask me to pick one, I'd struggle. For long tarmac rides, I think the 47mm 650s still have too much drag. If the Rutlands work out, I think (b) might be retired/sold though.

[dlovett]

A Camino runs much nicer on 650B than 700c in my opinon. On both road and off road the extra volume really does give a more confortable ride

[faustus]

I've been running 650b on my Camino since about March and I like the feel. Good off road, fine on road, very comfy and feel a bit nippier to accelerate (though probably not actually true). When trails are dry it handles all my local trails well, and for the winter it's on Hutchinson overrides for mainly back road/ country lanes riding. I'm pretty much a convert!

[Charliecres]

I’ve considered fitting some 650B wheels to my Pickenflick but then rationalise that I use it for rides that are best suited to smaller volume tyres and I have a rigid 29er for the other stuff.

What advantage does a 650 gravel bike have over a drop bar 29er? My personal bias is to go for bigger wheels when there’s a choice.

[jameso]

What advantage does a 650 gravel bike have over a drop bar 29er? My personal bias is to go for bigger wheels when there’s a choice.

Can of worms opened : ) ...just joking, I'll keep it short.
You get the volume that makes the most difference for something like a 70% road 30% off-road mix or loaded touring but keeping the OD at 'enough' rather than bigger means there's no real weight gain or bike geometry change from a road/CX base - if that matters.
You could have a bike with the same ride/use basis on 700C x 50mm, it'd just be a bit longer in the wheelbase and fork and with slightly bigger and heavier wheels it may feel less 'roadie' (not a bad thing for some). I'd agree the bigger wheels are the way to go if you're off road most of the time.

[thenorthwind]

I have an Arkose with the stock 700c wheelset shod with Schwalbe G-one all round 35mm tyres for all my road riding, which often includes bits of tracks and other rough stuff.

When I built a second wheelset for more off-road biased riding, I dithered for a long time over 700c and 650b. In the end I favoured diameter over volume, and went 700c. 40mm is about the most the fork will take, and I've got 40mm Nanos on which I have to say I'm very impressed with. It seems most people on here have found volume to be more important and gone 650b, so now I'm thinking about another wheelset again

[marcinski]

I definitely favour 650bx47-50 for most of my riding, I have either slick tyres on a bike that sees mostly asphalt, and gravel tyres on forest path/gravel bike. I just prefer the nimble feeling and extra cushion of 650b. Yes, I could get the cushion with larger tyres on 700c but I would loose the nimbleness which I like in gravel bike and what for me separates it from a rigid MTB. I could get the handling I like with 700c x 35 but that's nowhere comfy enough for me...
In the end it is more about personal preferences than any actual benefit.

Marcin

[Bearbonesnorm]

In the end it is more about personal preferences than any actual benefit.

Ahh, so true of much of life

[Jurassic]

I think it depends on how you use your gravel bike really and how much you want your gravel bike to encroach into mtb territory. I use mine a lot on the road (I have a second set of wheels with 700x32 road tyres on) but also on mixed routes, often involving road sections, cycle path, forest/estate track and sometimes some not too difficult singletrack using 700x43 Gravel King SKs. If the route has more challenging terrain I'd prefer to be on my hardtail 29er mountain bike.
I want my gravel bike to be capable offroad but when it gets to the stage of thinking about tyres bigger than my 43s or fitting a dropper post I reckon it's time to get the mtb out. Interestingly I recently fitted some Alpkit Confucious bars to my hardtail (after trying Shewie's bike which had them on) which has made it quicker on the road using the loop section as an aero bar. This has blurred the line between the gravel bike and the mountain bike even more so there's no way that I'd be putting 650b wheels in my gravel bike at the moment. Never say never though.........