Pack rafts - Please may I ask?

[Cheeky Monkey]

Having seen the images on FB they look quite interesting.

One issue I've had with the Advance Frame is that it's a fairly "fabricy" material in many places. Consequently it seems to take an age to dry out (in the UK, no surprise there) and is prone to mildew / mould. I anticipate this will eventually, if not cared for, rot. Probably not helped that it's stored outdoors / in a patio box at the van.

Conversely the bannana-boat (inotex or something) which was some £80 double kayak special is heavy duty PVC / plastic and so gets chuff all love and care but is still going strong and seems impervious to being packed away wet.

I suspect I'd want the Advance Frame on running water because it handles pretty well, much like a traditional kayak. However, a lot of my current paddling is lake stuff so, hhhhhhmmmmm (because what I need is yet more gear )

[Borderer]

I would like one that packs down to the size of an orange and weighs a kilo. And costs about £100. Please.

[Lazarus]

So an air bed you can paddle

[pistonbroke]

Or a dinghy you can sleep in? I think we're onto something! We could call it a Raftress.

[thenorthwind]

I would like one that packs down to the size of an orange and weighs a kilo. And costs about £100. Please.

Here you go: https://klymit.com/products/litewater-dinghy
They're a bit more than £100 now, slightly over a kilo, and it's a big orange, but not far off. Just... don't try and strap a bike to one!

Or a dinghy you can sleep in? I think we're onto something! We could call it a Raftress.

Joking aside, it genuinely seems like a good idea, doesn't it? Trouble is, most raft floors are just a single layer of material. I reckon in very warm conditions you'd be alright sleeping on it up-turned, either with a tarp pitched quite high (you'd be 12" off the ground) or no shelter.

Anfibio make a mat that's designed to be used as an inflatable floor and a sleeping mat: https://www.packrafting-store.de/Access ... ::946.html You'd obviously not want to put a dry sleeping bag on a wet raft floor though.

[JohnClimber]

I would like one that packs down to the size of an orange and weighs a kilo. And costs about £100. Please.

As Keith Bontrager said, “strong, light, cheap, pick two”

[Lazarus]

We could call it a Raftress

APPLAUDS

[ScotRoutes]

I have a 3/4 Thermarest that fits well in the base of my Alpacka Yak. It makes quite a difference to comfort in cold water and also firms up the boat when going over rougher water.

An upturned boat is quite comfy to lie on, but not very long.

[Cheeky Monkey]

I think Neris offer an inflatable pad to re-inforce the packrafts (who, me, looking at prices and options ).

My Advanced Frame has one (and they do stitched-thru pads (like SUPs) and/or a rigid backbone) to increase stiffness and performance.

[JohnClimber]

I think Neris offer an inflatable pad to re-inforce the packrafts (who, me, looking at prices and options ).

The Neris inflatable flooring option offers
1) A stiffer hull for better gliding, without it pack raft floors tent to sag near the paddlers bum making the floor have a bump in it, this keeps the floor flat
2) Acts as a shock absorber on rocks under water that strike you ankles and bum when travelling down shallow streams
3) Provides a little insulation from the cold water
4) Keeps you off the wet floor of the boat
5) Can be used as an (emergency) sleeping mat, although it's nowhere near as big, thick or as wide as a normal mattress that we all use. More of a nice cushion for lunch stops on wet ground.

But these are an option and not essential.

[JohnClimber]

If you are interested I wrote a rather long review on FB about these heavier PVC pack rafts.

Long post warning.
I hate long posts, so I’m sorry, but I may change your mindset like it has mine.

I have 4 pack rafts, but as you all know you can never have too many pack rafts once the bug bites.
To take my adventures to the next level I got talking on line to Simon from Neris UK about his PRO 2 folding kayak that I can keep in my campervan for our trips away (remember those care free non Covid days?) to the seaside, rivers and lakes for a quick paddle with the wife on board too.

It was while we were exchanging messages that I realised that well over half of my pack rafting adventures were from the car or campervan or even from home on the Leeds Liverpool canal that goes through our village. So why was I fixated with small pack sizes and super light weight pack rafts?

Keith Bontrager is well known in the cycling industry for his quote “strong, light, cheap, pick two” when it comes to bike and bike parts. And that was my mindset thinking about my trips and my next pack raft/s.

Several years ago after a lot of research I bought my first pack raft an Alpacka Caribou which is and I don’t think could ever be beaten as a perfect bike pack rafting and wild country adventure pack raft for carrying gear, it’s my go to pack raft most of the time, even for bike pack rafting on my local River Alt.
It is Strong and Light but not Cheap and rightly so as it’s such a high quality pack raft.

Since them and organising the 2019 North Wales Pack Raft meet up in Bala it has been joined by an MRS Nomad, an Anfibio Nano and a PVC Kokopelli self bailer. All fall in to the “strong, light, cheap, pick two” categories always failing on the one of the three things in the quote.

When Simon learnt of my pack rafting “fleet” and my local and out of the car/van adventures he turned the subject to fact that Neris are new to the pack rafting market and sell a range of Cheap, Strong but not Light pack rafts, they are built like this for their crazy Russian customers who take the boats to the limits and would kill a TPU boat on their trips. They also sell/hire them to white water centres for hire starter boats.

Simon kindly set me 2 to test with a view to Neris developing a TPU range of pack rafts in early 2021.
He has not paid me and has loaned* me the boats to get my non expert feed back.

The boats that I have at the JustFun set up for white water with it’s fixed in place spray deck and the BigFun XPD with it’s removable spray deck.

So, remembering Kieth’s quote the Neris range are Strong, cheap but not lightweight, but for most of my adventures and maybe yours too do they need to be TPU and lightweight?

The great thing about PVC boats is that they run at a much higher pressure and therefore very rigid using a foot pump to blow them up to around 3psi rather then the more flexible 1/2psi you get when topping off your bag blown TPU pack raft with around 10 breathers from your lungs.

I paddled the JustFun at Mile End Mill yesterday morning and it took me several “laps” to find it’s seating position “sweet spot” but this morning for the first time even my legs really ached.
I put this ache down to me (for the first time even on a pack raft) been so connected with it I felt like I was fully in control rather than just going with the flow as maybe I have been doing so on all of my other pack rafts when the water gets choppy and control is needed.

Anyway that’s enough from me for now.
But have a think if you can’t afford a second expensive pack raft or just to have one in your boot ready to use when you get a chance on your travels there is now a UK stock holding company with an affordable well built, with lots of features pack raft here in the UK market starting from just £290.
So lets hope that it gets more people into this fantastic hobby/sport the better, to develop and grow, do training and buy more and more pack rafts.

* Although loaned to me after this weekends great paddle, he won’t be seeing this small white water pack raft ever again that for sure, it’s a keeper. Sorry Simon.


All this lot of kit for £445


Neris on the left, Alpacka Caribou on the right


Neris back pack is as well build at the boats and come included in the price too - the Alpacka doesn't come with that exped dry bag either

[BigdummySteve]

I’ve been interested in pack rafts since the Lake Bala weekend, my lad and I enjoyed it hugely and I was surprised at the lack of faff, but the cost is off putting I think one of the problems is that by their nature, for most, pack raft trips have to be contrived. Obviously bike trips are the same, almost no one needs ride around remote parts of Wales in the rain. £600+ is a lot to invest., at some point I may take the plunge but if we’re going to go heavy and non-bike friendly why not a Decathlon 2 man inflatable kayak?

[Hamish]

I’ve been interested in pack rafts since the Lake Bala weekend, my lad and I enjoyed it hugely and I was surprised at the lack of faff, but the cost is off putting I think one of the problems is that by their nature, for most, pack raft trips have to be contrived. Obviously bike trips are the same, almost no one needs ride around remote parts of Wales in the rain. £600+ is a lot to invest., at some point I may take the plunge but if we’re going to go heavy and non-bike friendly why not a Decathlon 2 man inflatable kayak?

They are expensive for sure. But... They are cheaper than bikes. They are also cheaper than sea kayaks. I recon my raft is better value for money than my composite sea kayak given how much I use it. Hard to compare with bikes in terms of vfm becasue bikes are kind of uniquely useful... But it must be one of the cheapest and easiest way to get afloat.

I think the actual vfm and also whether the use Is contrived depends on where you live. If you can use it from home and combine it with a walk or even ride (eg walk a length of coast and paddle back) then you get minimum contrivedness and maximum frequency of use. Unless you live right on the beach and have a boat sitting on the shore ready to go, I think it's one of the few boats you would bother to use if you only have say an hour to spare (you do need a little electric pump for rapid deployment rather than faffing with an inflation bag).

I think I am beginning to sound like a packraft zealot, but I have enjoyed it so much and the potential adventures it opens up are limitless.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I do wonder whether one of the 'problems*' is the seeming lack of opportunity for people to experience packrafts first hand? The Bala weekend was fantastic (sterling work there John), the venue reasonably central with regard to the UK but still providing a good 'outdoorsy' feel which you possibly can't achieve down the Leeds** canal.


*I say problem but if you really want to try a raft then you can, it's just that the experience won't be handed to you directly on a nicely warmed plate.

**Obviously, no offence to those who live in Leeds, Yorkshire in general or who thoroughly enjoy our extensive canal network.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Having read all this I have wished a couple of times that I'd gone to Bala. Then again, my interested has only been piqued by cheaper stuff as the price of the lightweight / existing rafts has put me off (given all the other craft I've blown brass on).

Sadly at the mo it must be unlikely a mass event will be held.

Damn you Covid <shakes fist futilely at sky>

[Bearbonesnorm]

Sadly at the mo it must be unlikely a mass event will be held.

We'll be back to normal at some point Tim. Strangely*, while out walking the other week, it dawned on me just how good a venue Clywedog would make for a rafting weekend if the permissions could be sought.





*it's not strange really is it? It was simply my mind putting 2 and 2 together and for once deciding it was 4.

[Cheeky Monkey]

That does look lovely

[middleagedmadness]

Any idea when your planning your trip down the wye mate , as I’ve been looking at rafts again not so much for the bike but as in its own right with maybe a bit of a stroll involved . Was looking at getting another kayak but the raft is a better solution as I can roll it up and jump on the train

[JohnClimber]

Sadly at the mo it must be unlikely a mass event will be held.

We'll be back to normal at some point Tim. Strangely*, while out walking the other week, it dawned on me just how good a venue Clywedog would make for a rafting weekend if the permissions could be sought.





*it's not strange really is it? It was simply my mind putting 2 and 2 together and for once deciding it was 4.

Would you mind asking please and I'll muck in to run it maybe in Sept 2021 as there is a Summer one up in Scotland too.

If anyone is interested in a socially distance test paddle on some grade 2 white water at Llangollen
https://youtu.be/PXT0i3MVPvg

A couple of us will have several boats to try out on Boxing Day and the Day afterwards.
Parking is £6 and wrap up very warm and bring spare clothes to, or a dry suit
Just Pm me for more details

[Bearbonesnorm]

Any idea when your planning your trip down the wye mate

Not sure fella. All covid related I suppose.

Would you mind asking please and I'll muck in to run it maybe in Sept 2021 as there is a Summer one up in Scotland too.

I will John. It's a big fishing venue but they do day boating licences. Whether that's outside of fishing season, I don't know.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Sadly at the mo it must be unlikely a mass event will be held.

We'll be back to normal at some point Tim. Strangely*, while out walking the other week, it dawned on me just how good a venue Clywedog would make for a rafting weekend if the permissions could be sought.





*it's not strange really is it? It was simply my mind putting 2 and 2 together and for once deciding it was 4.

Would you mind asking please and I'll muck in to run it maybe in Sept 2021 as there is a Summer one up in Scotland too.

If anyone is interested in a socially distance test paddle on some grade 2 white water at Llangollen
https://youtu.be/PXT0i3MVPvg

A couple of us will have several boats to try out on Boxing Day and the Day afterwards.
Parking is £6 and wrap up very warm and bring spare clothes to, or a dry suit
Just Pm me for more details

That sounds great John and I'd love to but being Xmas I have obligations re: kids (less so nowadays as they are teens and rightly bored of me) but mostly regarding an octogenarian parent. If it changes or the chance comes up I'll be there. No drysuit but a surfing wetsuit that barely fits

[yourguitarhero]

What's the deal with Scottish one in summer?

[JohnClimber]

What's the deal with Scottish one in summer?

I'll find out and let you know

[pistonbroke]

Living in rural Spain would seem to be an odd location to be interested in this concept but we live 10km from the longest river in Spain, the Ebro. Crossing points used to be quite plentiful with most villages along the river having little ferries for locals to access their orange and olive groves but in recent years most have stopped running so it's a 20-30km car journey via the nearest bridge. One of the surviving Pas de Barca's is fortunately near us and we use it regularly on the bikes. It works without the need for an engine, the ferryman positioning the ferry at a certain angle and using the current and heavy wire ropes to glide across.

There's also a section of river about 30km upstream where its been dammed to form a 100km long lake which has also caused ancient routes to be cut. I can see using a packraft on multi day trips opening up huge areas that would require a 50 or 60km detour to get to, providing you don't come across any of the catfish, the biggest, a 246lb monster, was caught about 10 years ago.
There's also the spider's web of creeks and irrigation channels that form the Ebro Delta to explore but I'm not sure of access rights as it's a protected nature reserve and birdwatching mecca.
I do know that there are several kayak hire companies that do day trips both on the river and sea, the climate is perfect for this.

[JohnClimber]

What's the deal with Scottish one in summer?

Info here, but it may get bumped back to September depending on the Covid vaccine roll out and rules at the time

https://www.veletron.com/scotlandpackra ... C22S4DRCDo