What training app?

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

redefined_cycles
Posts: 9282
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: What training app?

Post by redefined_cycles »

ZeroDarkBivi wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:34 pm
redefined_cycles wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:00 pm Xert. I don't anymore but its brilliant
If it’s brilliant, why did you stop using it?

I’ve been on it for 3 years and find it interesting but equally frustrating. If the execution was as good as the concept, it could be brilliant, however the algorithms don’t work for me, and the prescribed workouts are also just nonsensical in so many ways. Their website doesn’t do a good job of explaining how to get the most out of it, and whilst they respond quickly to feedback, explanations like, “you can’t argue with the maths” are not helpful... Even the three founders can’t agree with each other on their waffle-cast; it’s clear the modelling is based on theory rather then established scientific evidence.

I distract myself from the tedium of indoor training with Netflix, or similar. I definitely don’t won’t to play a cycling video game or pretend race. But I’m also not interested in Strava or other ego stroking stuff, so clearly in the minority!
Agreed. It was sooooo brilliant. I had the paid version but then I got rid of the Garmin and Wahoo hadn't connected to it yet. Hence just continued with just power meter (4iii crank arm... so I have a 105 crank arm [PM] with other side Dura Ace 9000 :o ) and gave up waiting for the Xert chap to finally get Wahoo on board. Sounded a very very smart chap and way ahead of his time. Definitely used to work for me (or at least I enjoyed it and when the app said I was half depletdd and how much I could afford to push, it never let me down).
jameso
Posts: 5035
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm

Re: What training app?

Post by jameso »

SeannyD wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:04 pm Tried Zwift but the gamefication put me off after a while, similar but more ‘fun’ RGT with actual rides (Mt Ventoux was epic) Now just use TrainerRoad purely as a training tool, Quite a few choices of programmes to cater for what you want to achieve. Ive a few free trials to give away, once I work out how. If anyone would like to try for free. TR works for me and is supported by a podcast and forum. A bit roadie orientated and if you don’t mind a lot of Americanisms it pretty good. :grin:
Is trainerroad something that relies on power data or can you just input time and HR / intensity from outdoor miles? If it puts basic lo-fi training into some context I'd appreciate a trial if you work it out, for swaps or pay fwds.
User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 7847
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: What training app?

Post by whitestone »

TR Ideally uses a power meter but for "dumb" trainers you can use virtual power. Might not be as accurate but it can be consistent which is what you really need.

They also have the ability to send workouts to Garmin or Wahoo units so you can do them outside.

I can sort you a free trial as I've got some to hand out, just PM me your email address and I'll sort it in the AM
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
jameso
Posts: 5035
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm

Re: What training app?

Post by jameso »

whitestone wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:04 pm TR Ideally uses a power meter but for "dumb" trainers you can use virtual power. Might not be as accurate but it can be consistent which is what you really need.

They also have the ability to send workouts to Garmin or Wahoo units so you can do them outside.

I can sort you a free trial as I've got some to hand out, just PM me your email address and I'll sort it in the AM
Thanks.. don't know if I'm even smart enough for dumb virtual power 🤣 wondering if it let you log the effort of rides to track it in any useful way. I'm purely 'time at HR level' sort of training, that's all. Maybe not what TR is for?
tobasco
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: What training app?

Post by tobasco »

Bcool here. I use it just to get something into the legs when I don’t have time for real cycle. They do 30 day trial. Select from famous routes or upload your own gpx. Has training plans as well. I just ride some climbs I’m familiar with in Pyrenees, map on one screen and historical documentaries that no one else in house is interested in on second screen. It’s not cycling, but it’s good for the legs over the winter.

One interesting thing I’ve been looking at is repeating the same ride but after different food previous 24 hours. Have also been seeing how far I can push it first thing in morning before taking any food. Who said trainers were boring ;)
SeannyD
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:27 am
Location: Dalgety Bay, Fife

Re: What training app?

Post by SeannyD »

Dave Barter wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:10 pm I have ridden both Alp Duez and Ventoux in real life and on Zwift. The Zwift Alp Duez was comparable but Ventoux was way too easy compared to the real thing.

The thing I really can’t comprehend is the runners that use it. Really? Has to be near apocalypse to prevent me going out.
The Ventoux in my case was let down by my trainer not being able to ‘use’ the real gradient. Suited me though.
Simply a means to an end, less hassle getting ready, bike is always in the trainer so its less faff. It also lets me target specific issues. Just like going to the gym without the loud music and muscle Mary’s.
However saying that, went out last night in the wind and rain for an hour and it was great fun. Good to be out on the roads, even if its just laps of the Bay.
User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 7847
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: What training app?

Post by whitestone »

jameso wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:18 pm
whitestone wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:04 pm TR Ideally uses a power meter but for "dumb" trainers you can use virtual power. Might not be as accurate but it can be consistent which is what you really need.

They also have the ability to send workouts to Garmin or Wahoo units so you can do them outside.

I can sort you a free trial as I've got some to hand out, just PM me your email address and I'll sort it in the AM
Thanks.. don't know if I'm even smart enough for dumb virtual power 🤣 wondering if it let you log the effort of rides to track it in any useful way. I'm purely 'time at HR level' sort of training, that's all. Maybe not what TR is for?
Virtual Power is just a matter of you telling their system which trainer you have and what resistance setting you use. You do need a speed sensor on the rear wheel since it works along the lines of: Power = speed x resistance.

If you want analysis then TR, etc. aren't the things to look at, they are more means to obtaining the data to analyse.

The granddaddy of analysis is Training Peaks/WKO but that costs. I use Intervals.icu, it's free but well featured without being overpowering in the way that WKO can be and the author keeps adding new stuff. It currently pulls data from Strava in the same way that Veloviewer does but the author is looking at getting ride data directly from Garmin Connect in case Strava start putting limits on data transfer or start charging. Not sure about the Wahoo side of things.

So in my case all indoor (with power and HR data) and outdoor rides (HR only) get pushed to Strava and then Intervals.icu picks them up, this is all done automatically. The Strava - TrainerRoad connection is two way so my outdoor rides get picked up by TR and appear in their calendar and their limited stats displays.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
ssnowman
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 1:38 pm
Location: London

Re: What training app?

Post by ssnowman »

Another question for the training app users.

What computer/tablet/screen are you using? This seems to be a bit of a minefield!!
May satan walk with you
User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 7847
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: What training app?

Post by whitestone »

ssnowman wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:39 pm Another question for the training app users.

What computer/tablet/screen are you using? This seems to be a bit of a minefield!!
I'm using my wife's iPad Mini! I can't use my iPad as it's too old and it can't run the current version of the software (TrainerRoad).

Each app will have its minimum requirements laid out somewhere in terms of version of OS and what hardware it's compatible with. You just have to find something that handles that. Sensors are either Bluetooth or ANT+ (or both) and you may need some sort of receiver dongle to handle things at the computer/tablet end especially with ANT+.

Edit: my phone is much newer and will handle the app and sensors. I could use an AV adaptor to use a TV as a bigger screen.
Last edited by whitestone on Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
ssnowman
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 1:38 pm
Location: London

Re: What training app?

Post by ssnowman »

whitestone wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:00 pm
ssnowman wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:39 pm Another question for the training app users.

What computer/tablet/screen are you using? This seems to be a bit of a minefield!!
I'm using my wife's iPad Mini! I can't use my iPad as it's too old and it can't run the current version of the software (TrainerRoad).

Each app will have its minimum requirements laid out somewhere in terms of version of OS and what hardware it's compatible with. You just have to find something that handles that. Sensors are either Bluetooth or ANT+ (or both) and you may need some sort of receiver dongle to handle things at the computer/tablet end especially with ANT+.
Thanks, It appears my ipad is also too old, so looking at what options are available.
May satan walk with you
Alec
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:33 am

Re: What training app?

Post by Alec »

I run through my android phone which i then cast to the projector via a chromcast to get it up on a big screen.
tobasco
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: What training app?

Post by tobasco »

ssnowman wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:39 pm
What computer/tablet/screen are you using? This seems to be a bit of a minefield!!

I run the bcool program on a mid range laptop running Windows10. I have a big TVs screen connected to laptop with hdmi. I put the bcool maps/scenery on the tv screen. Bcool is connected to strata, so all trainer rides end up with real rides on strata. Trainer is a wahoo kickr, resistance is controlled by the bcool app in response to gradient. I had issues with Bluetooth to the trainer, had to buy an ant+ dongle for the laptop to get reliable connection.. I’ve compared real rides to trainer rides of same col’s in Pyrenees and the software gets it remarkably accurate.
jameso
Posts: 5035
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm

Re: What training app?

Post by jameso »

Thanks Whitestone. It sounds like you have a good system there. I think I'd need to stick to my old-school methods though, limited patience with all the log-ins links and data etc. The Stamstad method of turbo training works ok for me if I'm feeling half-serious, otherwise HRM basics always work.
boxelder
Posts: 1525
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:05 pm

Re: What training app?

Post by boxelder »

Give RGT a try. You need to have power meter (but your Wahoo will have). There are always three roads available free of charge I believe, including, Mt Ventoux, Cap de Formentor, the Peterbourg, Berrago Springs etc. For subscription (£7/month) you can organise meets etc, upload your own GPX and various other stuff. It gives more realistic drafting and you have to pull out to overtake. Free, so well worth a look.
Controls via phone app, bluetooth to any screen that will connect - our TV, iPad etc.
ssnowman
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 1:38 pm
Location: London

Re: What training app?

Post by ssnowman »

boxelder wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:06 pm Give RGT a try. You need to have power meter (but your Wahoo will have). There are always three roads available free of charge I believe, including, Mt Ventoux, Cap de Formentor, the Peterbourg, Berrago Springs etc. For subscription (£7/month) you can organise meets etc, upload your own GPX and various other stuff. It gives more realistic drafting and you have to pull out to overtake. Free, so well worth a look.
Controls via phone app, bluetooth to any screen that will connect - our TV, iPad etc.
Thanks. Also going to give this a trial.
May satan walk with you
Post Reply