Underquilt extra warmth?

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Rasta
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Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Rasta »

I have finally got round to using an underquilt.
OneTigris £35 off Amazon. There was another OneTigris for £45 but I couldn't see any difference except price and colour.

It's getting colder obviously (Scotland). So I put my windscreen sun reflector (silver foil with bubbles) in between and then a light roll mat as well.
This seemed to work but the weight of these pulls the underquilt down, making a gap between the hammock, which makes it less effective.

I can't pull the hammock and underquilt closer, as I sleep with the hammock tight, not banana slung. If that makes sense.

What do others use or do to uprate the underquilt? I could buy a 2nd one, but that would be too bulky to carry.
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Richpips
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Richpips »

One of our hammocks has a double fabric bottom so you can slide the underquilt in.
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Taylor »

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Cheeky Monkey
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

There are various tips in the hammocking bible The Ultimate Hang. Well worth getting if you dont already have it.


You could try sleeping in warmer clothing or an improvised water bottle.

Do your best to reduce wind chill by using a bigger tarp, pitching it lower and something with some cover at the ends. Also try to avoid the UQ sagging away from you (as you've found). Maybe a lightweight cover under the quilt to resist wind.

Some hammocks have the option for solid top covers (rather than insect mesh). Will also reduce airflow / drafts and trap a little warmer air. Warbonnet do a "sock" for their RidgeRunner models.

Like a bivi, a sheltered pitch will help, if possible.

Is your UQ full length? If not then a small bit of CCF mat for your feet.

Can you feel the 2ps raining on you yet :wink:
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whitestone
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by whitestone »

I can't pull the hammock and underquilt closer, as I sleep with the hammock tight, not banana slung. If that makes sense.
This doesn't make sense unless you are using a bridge hammock which is designed to be slung taught. A slung hammock, either with or without a sleeve for a sleeping mat as suggested by Rich, is meant to look like a banana when hung correctly and you sleep on the diagonal within the hammock material to get the flat lie.

Not sure about bridge hammocks as I've never seen one but I believe that their design is meant to prefer sleeping mats rather than underquilts. Sometimes manufacturers has specific accessories and generic items don't work well with them. Taylor's more hammock experience than myself so he might confirm/correct that.

This looks like the UQ you have - https://www.amazon.co.uk/OneTigris-Hide ... B0894L1H5S which is for slung hammocks, in fact it looks like it's intended to match their own hammock which is a slung model.

As well as The Ultimate Hang it's also worth checking out Shug Emery's YouTube channel, lots (and lots) of useful information presented in a, err unique, style.

Edit:

If your hammock is a traditional slung model then it needs to be long enough. I'm 1.80m tall and my first hammock was an Exped model at 2.7m and I couldn't get comfortable in it to sleep. It's fine for my wife at 1.60m though. I've now a DIY slung hammock at 3.5m and it's very comfortable.
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Taylor »

Bridge hammocks can be used with either Bob.
I have a single layer bridge which is designed for an under quilt but the same hammock can come with double layer to allow a pad to slip in between the bottom layers.

As Tim says "ultimate hang" is a hammockers Bible. Well worth buying.
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Cheeky Monkey
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

Agreed, bridge-style hammocks can use either UQs or mats. Even if they don't have a double layered base / matt sleeve you *could* just put one inside (best to let a bit of air out). I have limited experience of it though because I find they slip around even then and have usually just spaffed cash on UQs :oops: The dedicated Lynx UQ for my Ridgerunner is a thing of downy beauty.

I am a little confused about the OP's description of their hang so would be interested to understand that. Bob is correct that most trad' gathered-end hammocks are hung like bananas (for want of a better quick-description :wink: ). I'm not sure about other bridge-style types but the RidgeRunner is hung with lines at an angle rather than horizontal and I think there is usually some angle in the suspension on most others. The forces and tip -i-ness of something hung with lines close to horizontal is usually rather unnerving ;-)

Shug's Youtube content is brilliant and hilarious, if it suits you. Another source of hammock knowledge to the point of disappearing up it's own butt (I don't mean that as an insult but it can become very intricate :???:) is hammockforums.net. Mostly US contributors though not exclusively and vast amounts of info.

There's always a degree of HYOH though in this game :cool:
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by frogatthefarriers »

Ive tuned the way I hang the underquilt so that I can adjust the tension from in the hammock. My UQ has adjustment so I can alter the tension lengthways and across at the head and foot ends.

This is where I got the idea from :- https://youtu.be/VHaoK341vR4

Once in, I can feel under the UQ to see if it's sagging too much - ie. feel if there's a gap between my bum and the UQ. Too much - tighten the UQ drawstrings, too little - add a little slack. I aim for no actual slack. That way there can be no convection between hammock and UQ.

Once Ive done that, I feel for a gap at the head and foot end to see if air can escape. Adjust if needed, though usually I don't need to.
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whitestone
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by whitestone »

So far we've offered standard solutions to the OP's problem but we still don't know what hammock they have or how they are using it - other than
I sleep with the hammock tight, not banana slung.
There seem to be a couple of problems:

1. The OP's UQ appears to be shaped to fit a typical "banana slung" hammock. If the OP is setting up their hammock so it's flatter* then the UQ won't be snug against it.

2. the shock cord on the UQ may not be strong enough so when the mat and bubblewrap sheet are added it's too much so the UQ sags. Either replace with a stronger cord or double up what's already there. Another possibility is that the roll mat is too stiff so rather than it "weighing down" the UQ it's actually pushing it away so having the mat inside the hammock might be better.

Fitting UQs is easiest with someone to help as everything hangs differently when empty than when occupied so having someone adjust things whilst you lie in the hammock lets you adjust it properly. If you are using the UQ with the same hammock all the time then once you have dialled things in you can leave them be and it's just a case of clipping on the UQ each night.

Because of the airflow around a hammock, great in summer, the general recommendation is to use an UQ rated to 5C or so lower than your expected temperatures. So your model of quilt is probably fine to 10C. An UQ protector around the outside of the UQ will reduce wind chill and so make the UQ feel a little warmer. An easy DIY project :wink:

*Going "flatter" introduces its own problems, namely: instability in the hammock when you lie on it and increased forces on the anchor points. The latter also means greater forces on the hammock itself - see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrfBrIEH2-U&t=245s where slinging the hammock at less than the usual/standard 30degs leads to the hammock ripping.
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Rasta
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Rasta »

Thanks for the replies. I am going to try and get through the winter with the hammock. It'll be a good project - if I survive.

I think I should clear up that I am not a hammock novice. Maybe, plus 150 nights, but mostly in jungles and without a bike.
I probably hated all those nights as I turn around a lot when sleeping. Also the hammocks were usually too short. I've also spent many hours in one whilst hanging on a cliff in Yosemite. So I am aware of the load/tensions.

With that much experience, I know that diagonal sleeping doesn't work for me. It is also a very dated opinion and shouldn't really be preached. Modern hammocks are made a lot longer now.

I looked at that WB Lynx. Ouch! Pricey. But maybe I will change my mind when I freeze my butt off.

The underquilt fits snug even with the hammock set tight. It's only when I try to add pads etc.
I've got a Ticket to the Moon - single.

Thanks again.
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whitestone
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by whitestone »

No problem, hard to tell experience etc. from your original post.

I'd say point 2 in my last post applies, either the existing cord isn't strong enough or the mat is too inflexible to work with the UQ. I couldn't get a mat to work with my hammock without an UQ, just had a mind of its own.

Consider getting another UQ to double up. If both are rated to 5C or so then as a pair they'll be good to somewhere in the -8C to -10C range - see this page https://support.enlightenedequipment.co ... t-Layering although it's about normal quilts the principles apply as really warmth is all about loft and that will be the same whether it's on top of you or underneath.

A couple of potential gotchas:

1. The extra quilt may not sit correctly around the first. If either was down rather than synthetic you also have to consider the insulation being squashed. Without trying you won't know.

2. Bulk. I don't know how bulky your current UQ is, given that it's synthetic insulation it won't be as compact as a down model, but you'd be doubling that volume at a stroke.

Therein lies the problem: we'll post photos or quote weights for superlight kit but that's generally for summer. You can't get away with that in winter, stuff is just bulky if not necessarily heavy and you've more of it.

Edit: There's a thread on hammockforums at the moment about pushing summer kit to colder temps - https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/sho ... mperatures
Last edited by whitestone on Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rasta
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Rasta »

whitestone wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:47 pm
Therein lies the problem: we'll post photos or quote weights for superlight kit but that's generally for summer. You can't get away with that in winter, stuff is just bulky if not necessarily heavy and you've more of it.
It would be good to see some winter hammock setups at the end of this winter.
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

Sheets of silver bubble wrap are light, not horrendously bulky and offer some insulation. Might go between hammock and quilt.

Foam insulation doesn't gave to be CCF, particularly in this situation. I have a Hennesy system that uses light weight blown foam ( l don't know the right / a better word). Not sure where to source it :???:

Good to know you've done some hanging and in a variety of places :cool: I'm not sure but thought even with longer hammocks it just enabled a comfier lay on the diagonal rather than making that approach redundant? Whatever, some folks like a banana or foot-high lay :cool: personally I prefer the flatter position on a diagonal.
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Shewie »

A question for you hanging cyclists, how do you carry all the gear, especially in the winter months?

I’ve been hiking with hammocks for many years, more so in winter these days, but the bulk of a decent rated winter TQ & UQ means my pack can be 60 or 70L depending on the duration.

I had thought about using a backpack just for the quilts?

Just curious ....
Last edited by Shewie on Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

I think I'm a warm sleeper so can probably use lesser rated gear further into winter. I've not ridden and carried full, depth of winter stuff (though I've been out in the cold on a number of occassions).

I have a WB Superfly that lets me pitch low and has doors, this gives me more cover than a smaller, open ended tarp so keeps more of the elements off and the warmth in. I think in the depths of winter it becomes more significant that you reduce all that air circulation and so more sheltered = warmer (ish).

I suspect the ratio of weight/bulk to degree of increased warmth is better for stuff that improves your shelter than stuff that is insulation. Things like aforementioned tarps, weathershields, burrito-tops, hammock socks etc. I'm speculating though.

Personally I find hanging a bulkier endeavour than being on the ground anyway. During the middling seasons that's an acceptable trade-off (to me) come deep winter the balance becomes much finer / worse so I tend to change what I do for shelter (bothies, tarp-tents etc).
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by The Cumbrian »

Have you tried putting your solid insulation on top of your hammock? It won't weigh the underquilt down like that. The only thing to be careful of doing that is being too warm and the impervious layer collecting sweat. When I started hammocking I used a CCF mat in my hammock well into minus figures, but woke up a few times with a wet back where sweat had pooled.
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Rasta
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Rasta »

The bubble wrap is the windscreen shield I mentioned.

If you look at my snow shelter post, you can see that not much extra gear is needed - assuming you are wearing most of it. This was a remote trip, not a local park.

For the hammock, the only extra, is the quilt. 900g. Compressed to about 2ltrs.


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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

Rasta wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:35 am The bubble wrap is the windscreen shield I mentioned.
....
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11788&hilit=Shovel
There's been a weekend, I'd forgotten :oops: :lol:
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whitestone
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Re: Underquilt extra warmth?

Post by whitestone »

Shewie wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:47 am A question for you hanging cyclists, how do you carry all the gear, especially in the winter months?

Just curious ....
I've a Revelate Saltyroll dry bag that fits my handlebar harness. The only time so far that I've biked with hammock I wasn't sure of finding anywhere so I also had kit for ground use. I managed to get all the below into it quite comfortably:

homemade hammock
Alpkit Rig7 tarp
Cumulus Selva 250 UQ
Cumulus 150 quilt
Exped Winterlite Synmat
Borah gear bivy bag
Poles for tarp

I didn't use the last three items at all so allow for a warmer quilt and possibly a more hammock oriented tarp and it should still be enough for temps down to -5/6C or so. Without having the kit to try, really not sure how I'd carry the stuff for negative teens sort of temperatures.
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