Tubeless - An idiots guide

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ootini
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Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by ootini » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:05 pm

Hi.

Im getting really hacked off with getting punctures on almost every ride on the WTB Riddlers on my Arkose.
Apparently the wheels on my bike are compatible with a tubeless set up.
I was wondering if anyone could give me an idea of just how much of a ballache setting them up will be?
Im assuming I need tyres (riddlers are poor apparently and leak through sidewalls) valves, tubeless sealant gunge stuff, anything else?

Asposium
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Asposium » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:12 pm

i went tubeless after 13 punctures on BB 2018

with the correct rim / tyre combo there is no hassle

mavic open pro ust rims with wtb riddler 42 went together no issue, and inflated with a standard track pump

similarly, the wheelset on my spesh epic and spech fast track 2bliss tyres also inflated with a standard track pump

the only "fail" i've had was the tyre being cut buy flint (riddler) or glass (fast track) and then the sealant not being able to do it's job. in the case of the fast track, had to fit an inner tube.
by and large it's worth the hassle

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whitestone
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by whitestone » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:14 pm

I've set up Riddlers tubeless with no problem. Generally the tyres will leak a little at first but then fully seal.

Add tubeless tape to your list.

Tubeless is either straightforward or a ballache, there seems to be little middle ground.
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Asposium
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Asposium » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:18 pm

whitestone wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:14 pm
Tubeless is either straightforward or a ballache, there seems to be little middle ground.
:lol:

Conti AT Ride

Really liked those tyres on my gravel bike
Did work tubeless, but oh my lord they were a PITA
shame conti didn't a tubeless version

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by ssnowman » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:27 pm

This is what I did and it has worked fine:

Remove existing rim tape, rub down inside of rim with wire wool and then degrease. Apply electrical tape over spoke holes pulling tape tight as you go and overlap by about 150mm. Cut a screw type Presta valve from an old tube removing as much of the rubber as you can, then make a small cut at the valve hole and insert and screw as tight as possible. Next get some Tesa tape (cheap on eBay)heat it up and apply over the electrical tape stretching it as you go , note that the Tesa tape does not have to go to the edge of the rim.

You are now ready to mount the tyres. Do this before adding any sealant. If you are lucky tyres will mount fine and you can then inflate with pump/airshot/compressor as necessary. You might need soap and water if the tyre is tight.

Once the tyre is seated and not leakin air, you can unscrew top of valve and add sealant and reinflate. Then go for a ride around the block to get the sealant sloshing around.

I did this a short while ago and have done over a 1000 miles with no problem.
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htrider
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by htrider » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Never had much success with tubeless on the grovel bike. WTB tyres are quite thin and when you add gravel pressures, they tend not to seal punctures that are bigger than thorns. I found I was getting tiny cuts from bits of sharp gravel which weren't sealing. With a tube they wouldn't have got through..... But people seem to manage it so maybe its just me.

+1 for the Conti AT rides - puncture proof enough to use with tubes without too many punctures (about 4 in two years in a very thorny area??) but still quite light

Currently on schwalbe marathon mondials and these are fab. Fast, plenty of grip, totally puncture proof and they apparently don't wear out. Bit heavy tho'.....

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by ssnowman » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:31 pm

I struggled for hours to fit WTB Rangers and then shortly after changed to Schwalbe G-One Allround which was a doddle in comparison.
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Lazarus » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:32 pm

Yes you need valves , tubeless tape - the correct width for your tyre will be easier, sealant and a method of inflation. I use ebay for tape [ TESSA tape] and valves but delivery of valves can be slow as its from China.

Watch some you tube videos on it and I advise inflating without fluid as you will lose a fair amount if it fails and you have to take it off- You should still here the pop and see it has beaded - valve out allows air to go in faster IME
Some claim you can do it with a track pump - this is not my experience - in fact some lost all air yesterday wehen the valve unscrewed due to gumming and would not reinlate with a track pump - its havs never worked for me.
Some sort of reservoir of air - Pop bottle devices work well IME and are cheap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtmatxJG_zg

Finally get a friend who has done it - i advise scotsroutes as he thinks anyone who cannot do it is inept and he always does it with a track pump HANDBAGS EMOJI- as I agree with the above its either easy or a massive pain.

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by UnderTheRadars » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:36 pm

whitestone wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:14 pm

Tubeless is either straightforward or a ballache, there seems to be little middle ground.
This*. Perfect example - I’ve just put 2 new tyres (schwalbe marathon plus) on my Fargo running Mavic UST rims. First tyre went on and pumped up first time with track pump, piece of of piss.... Second tyre went on, nearly bust my spleen trying to pump/seat it with track pump, no joy. Used soapy water, no joy. Used some sealant, no joy. Used my ‘ghetto’ tubeless inflated thing (old pop bottle) no joy. Put a tube in and left it a couple of days before trying all of the above again, no joy. Bought 2 x presta to shrader valve adaptors so I could use the compressor at work, no joy.

My Fargo has 1 wheel tubeless and 1 wheel with a tube in.




(*well not quite, all my other attempts with all my other bikes have been fine and done without much bother at all, just this instance was a pita)
Last edited by UnderTheRadars on Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ScotRoutes
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by ScotRoutes » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:37 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:32 pm
Finally get a friend who has done it - i advise scotsroutes as he thinks anyone who cannot do it is inept and he always does it with a track pump HANDBAGS EMOJI- as I agree with the above its either easy or a massive pain.
Not true. I had to use one of those Airshot type pumps for my fatbike tyres. I was sort of relieved really. I was thinking I'd wasted money buying it.

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Lazarus » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:54 pm

:grin:

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Borderer
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Borderer » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:06 pm

I am completely baffled by the whole tubeless thing. I can't save weight as you have to carry a spare tube anyway. I just use Schwalbe or Conti tyres and don't ever get punctures. I think the last time either Joe or I got a puncture was 2018 in Spain, so 2 and a half years ago.
I can't be arsed with all that fannying around. Just fit decent tyres and be done with it.

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ScotRoutes
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by ScotRoutes » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:10 pm

Borderer wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:06 pm
I am completely baffled by the whole tubeless thing.
Better grip. (minimal) weight loss, more cushioning.

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ootini
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by ootini » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:24 pm

Borderer wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:06 pm
Just fit decent tyres and be done with it.
Im wondering if this is my answer...

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Lazarus » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:47 pm

I think it depends where you ride re punctures i used to get about 1 every 3 months on my commute - got one monday [ saw it leaking as it was the front stopped to look and it had sealed]

i dont know anyone who has gone tubeless and then gone back to tubes. I could not say if ride lower pressures or get more grip or any of that but i have had one puncture since i went tubeless and that was slash i had to stitch/glue so i could put a tube in it/ride it.

the critical point is faff in your warm house when you choose is so much better than faff on a trail in the rain.

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Jurassic pusher » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:06 pm

5 years tubeless, 5 years since my last puncture! :-bd
Not sure if carrying a spare tube (just in case)is ever worth it, because when I look inside a tyre that I have been running tubelessly it is usually full of thorns sticking through the casing
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:34 pm

So far almost every tubeless one I've done has been a piece of cake. I am sure the next will now be an utter PITA 😉

Either Stan's kits, electrical tape or Gorilla tape. I've found they've all worked. No need for lots of cleaning, degreasing or double layers.

I find ensuring the tyre is pliable v.important. Usually being warm and a bit of soapy solution on the bead. Sometime use a tube to seat the bead first and always take valve core out. Adding fluid via valve seems so much more convenient.

Always managed with a regular track pump. Bought a fancy one with a reservoir recently and it's ok but not sure I would bother, in hindsight.

It is one of those things tho. YMMV 😉

They are different to tubed wheels, IMO, but it's probably an incremental gain rather than something ground breaking. Again, YMMV.

Give it a whirl. It's not something to fret over.

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by htrider » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:10 pm

Borderer wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:06 pm
I am completely baffled by the whole tubeless thing. I can't save weight as you have to carry a spare tube anyway. I just use Schwalbe or Conti tyres and don't ever get punctures. I think the last time either Joe or I got a puncture was 2018 in Spain, so 2 and a half years ago.
I can't be arsed with all that fannying around. Just fit decent tyres and be done with it.
Yes and no. You can't get mountain bike tyres with puncture proof belts like you can for road tyres and I was getting thorn punctures every ride. Sometimes several times per ride. On 29+ and 26 fat the pressures are pretty low so the sealant works great, you do save weight (tubes for these are 400g's) and I now very rarely get a puncture. On narrow tyres I'm less convinced as WTB aside most touring or road tyres are puncture proof to varying degrees. In fact I see on bikepacking.com that WTB are now beefing up their gravel tyres.....

PS to the OP. Use stans sealant if you do go tubeless. Don't be tempted by muckoff or squirt, they don't work.

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Borderer » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:21 pm

htrider wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:10 pm
You can't get mountain bike tyres with puncture proof belts like you can for road tyres
Hm. I was def under the impression that mine do. They used to be Kevlar but I think they are something else now. Will check and see.

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by htrider » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:56 pm

Borderer wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:21 pm
htrider wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:10 pm
You can't get mountain bike tyres with puncture proof belts like you can for road tyres
Hm. I was def under the impression that mine do. They used to be Kevlar but I think they are something else now. Will check and see.
To qualify you can't get 29x3 or 26x4.8 tyres with anti puncture belts but I seem to recall a few years a go searching fruitlessly for either 26 or 29er tyres that were puncture proof and drew a blank.... :???:

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by In Reverse » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:11 am

htrider wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:10 pm

PS to the OP. Use stans sealant if you do go tubeless. Don't be tempted by muckoff or squirt, they don't work.
Yep. Schwalbe is the same liquid as Stans too.

Muc-Off sealant is disastrously bad. Do not buy.

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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by K1100T » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:19 am

I use Orange Seal Endurance and it's been, okay. Seals most punctures to the front wheel without issue (sidewall cuts excepted), point blank refuses to seal the rear tyre though. Just make sure you buy a couple of bottles of your chosen brand, and get at least one bottle with an applicator, yes you can fashion your own, it's just easier to have one arrive ready to go. Also check what your rim manufacturer recommends, DT Swiss state that you must use non-corrosive sealant, i.e. no ammonia.

Depending on the tyres, you may find some sort of tubeless inflater is required. I didn't need one with my Conti Terra Trails, they would go up with a hand pump. The Panaracer Gravel Kings, on the other hand, require a huge amount of air to pop onto the bead and seal, at least they do with my 24mm internal width DT Swiss wheels.

Buy a decent tubeless repair kit.
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Re: Tubeless - An idiots guide

Post by Alpinum » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:57 am

ootini wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:05 pm
I was wondering if anyone could give me an idea of just how much of a ballache setting them up will be?
Im assuming I need tyres (riddlers are poor apparently and leak through sidewalls) valves, tubeless sealant gunge stuff, anything else?
Not much.
If you don't talk yourself into it, it's actually less fiddly/messy than you'd imagine.

I can't give any recommendation on tyres with less than 2.25", but for valves:
- DT
for rim tape
- WTB or Bike Components (house brand)
- use a tape 2 mm wider than the internal rim width
sealant
- Oko Hi-Fibre, add about 25 % of water. Mix very well.
- (to a lesser degree but still good) Conti Revo.

Get the right tools to fix punctures on tour.

I got myself a compressor for my work shop. A handy tool, not just for inflating tyres.

Borderer wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:06 pm
I just use Schwalbe or Conti tyres and don't ever get punctures
:lol:
I've a bunch of arguments pro tubeless, but with such a statement all I can do is lean back and have a good laugh.

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