Down vs synthetic and other newbie questions.

[rollindoughnut]

Be gentle with me, I'm new here.
Have ridden my whole life and love off-road riding and racing. I've done a tiny bit of bikepacking/touring over the years but this year due to a dearth of mtb racing I've focused my energies on bigger, lone adventures. Have done about 6 overnighters this year now and am starting to form opinions on what I like. I'm taking my time building up quality equipment as I think it takes a while to know what you actually need as opposed to what you think you need.
First big splurge was a decent tent. Two nights of being bitten and covered in condensation made this my number one priority. I know it's not purist but I love my Big Agnes cooper spur ul1 bikepacking tent as much as I love my bike (Pivot Les). I love good quality kit and both these are top notch. My cheap bivy stays in the cupboard.
So moving on, my next big purchase is a sleeping bag and probably a down jacket. I currently use a Vango 200 bag which is fine but is rather bulky. However whenever I look af the lovely, pricey, compact down bags on offer all over the internet, the phrase 'not suitable for damp conditions ' always rears its head. In my experience, all of cycling is spent in a damp condition! Whether it's sweat, rain, dew, spray or puddles, water features constantly. Isn't down gear a liability and a worry when out in the sticks?
Another related question is that I have an Exped blow up airbed (£50 from Go Outdoors), which is really warm and comfortable but makes so much noise when I move on it that it keeps me awake in the night! I tried a waffle style foam mattress which was much better but then I woke up in the night in discomfort. I'm a side sleeper and my hip and shoulder were feeling the ground. I'd love to get a good nights sleep on my trips.
I'd appreciate advice. I love riding so much and do so many hours whatever the season or weather. I'm really keen to tackle some of the ITT's before having a go at a group start race.
I'm typing this from a holiday cottage in Inverary. It's my first visit to the Scottish hills and I'm looking at the landscape and weather thinking 'I could get in a proper pickle up here', which is both daunting and alluring.
Thanks in advance.
Ed aka 'Rollindoughnut' from Singletrack forum. An ironic name I suppose as even my mother describes me as a streak of ....

[Bearbonesnorm]

In reality there's no reason why you should get a down bag wet. Damp maybe but certainly not enough to compromise performance. A decent bag is expensive but cared for sensibly, it should last 20 years or more.

Jackets are a slightly different matter and sometimes synthetic wins as while usually heavier / less packable, they can be more versitile and more useful for wearing round camp ... as you say, it generally rains a lot

Never really found Exped mats to be overly noisy, so I'm no help there sorry.

[ScotRoutes]

Many of us have been through the same down/synthetic quandary. I invested in a couple of very nice MH Lamina sleeping bags and used these in preference to my already acquired down bags. This was all down to the risk of getting them wet and/or dirty.

After a couple of years, I realised I'd never got the Laminas wet, or even damp (other than some slight condensation). I then reverted to down.

As regards the mat, I use an Exped HL and it's silent. The Thermarest Neoairs require the use of earplugs

[RIP]

Welcome to the dark side .

We'll be gentle so long as you bring some of those yummy doughnuts on the next ride . One of those with toffee icing and little coloured sugar strands for me please.

"I love good quality kit and both these are top notch". Good man. Here we go then:

Yep, Exped HL Synmat. As Colin says, super-quiet. As luck would have it, just bought one 30% off , here's the link:
https://www.outdoorgb.com/p/Exped_SynMa ... 6WEALw_wcB

Yep, down jacket. As luck would have it, one just sold to Mr Waters on the "Sleeping Bag or Quilt Tiny Pack" thread , here's the link: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/mountain-hardw ... e_id=85386
Raining? Bung an ultralight rain-top over it: https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk ... ket-p11437

Sleeping bag? While we're enjoying spending all your money , go for a Hypershell-outer bag from PHD. This is very nice, as luck would have it I think someone on Here recently bought one: https://www.phdesigns.co.uk/minimus-deg ... eeping-bag
Eye-watering cost but as my good pal Mr BigDummySteve (he'll be along in a minute) said, "it's cheaper than a night in a hotel". Gawd knows what hotels he stays in but there you go. I've got an Ultrashell-outer PHD and have used it under a tarp with no bivvy-bag (not got one) with massive condensation to no particularly ill-effect. Like sleeping in a fluffy cloud of luxury, unlike in synthetic IMHO.

Stand by for a million other different views/opinions .

Don't worry, you'll get used to This Place after The Other Place - it grows on you (*)

R

(*) like one of those horrible hairy warts that nothing will shift. I've tried everything.

[Borderer]

Hello and welcome.

I find our exped mats very noisy but I have found that putting my jumper or other clothing underneath pretty much stops it. This can mean your clothing is a wee bit damp in the morning, but not much. Its more the interaction between the mat and groundsheet that causes the noise I think.

We just have very cheap down jackets off eBay or TK Maxx. They have been fine for everything, even in winter. I don't think you need to spend a lot for one at least not to start with. Ours are just 'fashion' ones rather than outdoor specific kit and they have been great. If it rains you wear your waterproof over the top. Also - get a black one. That way you will be less likely to be seen if you are having a sneaky bivvy somewhere.

[whitestone]

Welcome

No problem in being a newbie, we all had to start once.

We've the Big Agnes Copper Spur 2 person tent so good choice

Sleeping mat: Exped or Thermarest NeoAir are the gotos on here.

Down and "damp" seems to be one of those things that gets repeated without consideration for reality, you'd think that sneezing on a down bag would leave it in a wet pathetic clump.

In truth down can stand a bit of damp but will begin to suffer with prolonged contact. If it does get moderately wet simply hanging it out in sun or a breeze when you can will start drying it out. Take care if it's properly wet as the shell material may not be strong enough to handle the weight of the water.

As with everything you tend to pay a lot more for higher quality down, by higher quality I mean higher fill power and better down/feather ratio. Manufacturers like PHD use some pretty high fill power down which means you get the same amount of warmth for less down. That means less weight and less bulk. You pay for this however so it's worth waiting for one of their sales.

Also popular on here are quilts but not everyone gets on with them. They tend to be a bit cheaper as they aren't as complicated as a bag and a bit lighter as there's no hood or back. The latter means you do need a decent mat to use with them. Have a search for Cumulus.

As Stu says, with a little care (not necessarily handling with kid gloves), you'll get decades out of a quality down bag.

As you might gather I'm a fan of down

[rollindoughnut]

Ha! Brilliant! Thank you!
My wallet is clamping shut like a scared bivalve so very glad for the put an item of clothing between your mat and groundsheet suggestion to try first. Sleeping in a fluffy down cloud or whatever it was does sound rather attractive though.
If I'm going to offer round doughnuts then it's got to be maple syrup and bacon ones. I know, they sound amazing right? I've never had one but I've heard of them. The day I find one will be memorable.

[benp1]

Down for bag/quilt for sure

Jacket fill depends on how your using it. If it's for camp only use the down makes sense. Of you're ever planning to use it as a belay style jacket or in bad weather then a synthetic fill jacket would be more use. I have a lot more synthetic jackets than down jackets. If you were to get to the top of a wet and windy summit and need to warm up, I wouldn't want to put a down jacket there, even one with hydrophobic down

[mattpage]

Pretty much agree with what people have said.

Even using a Gatewood cape shelter, which is open a bit all around there is no reason why it will get wet, just a little damp perhaps.

Jackets, I personally prefer down but I would only take a down jacket and wear it if it isn't raining.
If you know you will be riding in all weathers then maybe a synthetic will be better.

You can't beat a little bit of warmth, even if its just for the overnight spot and that first 30 minutes to get warm in the morning.

[RIP]

https://www.mountain-equipment.co.u ... t-use-it

Bit of light reading with my brew.