Diversity in (road) Cycling report by Andy Edwards

[redefined_cycles]

Was looing for the other thread started by Wriggles but couldn't find so thought to just add here. Not bikepacking specific but am sure there is links (the lad called Junaid who has some commentary in there, mate of mine, told me recently he's considering the TCR in coming years which I'd like to think I have a hand in encouraging and by default this forum)...

http://www.andyedwards.net/?p=623

JamesO after your mention about the TNR and opening it up for direct/easy entry to BAME etc I did some questioning of (predominantly but not limited to) muslim cyclists on the subject of Self Supported rides/bikepacking. Will try and PM you responses whenever I get round to copying/pasting the responses...

From my own personal POV (in relation to off border long events) I just stay away from anything thats out of the UK cos am terrified (rightly or wrongly) of the Schedule 7 stops which seem to target muslims (see various evidence based CAGE NGO reports). Particularly afraid of being violated by the (insert your choice anything from Sweary Daves vocab here) authorities and for many years was worried about having my door kicked down on the basis of being muslim. Which might sound far fetched but being bullied by the authorities on account of being muslim is a very real thing and happens to many that try practicd their religion.

In China (see the Uighur population and the million in concentration camps to reteach them their Islam by the govt) they quite openly bully the muslims and its been going on for many many years with the world turnin the blind eye...

Anyway... I digress. Naturally I won't be taming [or 'taking' even. Ed] any queations and sorry for going off on tangent just wanted to share the report (which I've not actually read just yet ).

[Cheeky Monkey]

Might be more accurately titled diversity in road cycling. Qualitative not quantitative. Touch heavy on the marketing style, for me.

Interesting read though.

[tobasco]

These things take time. I got my love of bikes aged 4 in the 60s, passed to me by my Dad. I passed the bug to my wife and made sure our kids could ride from a young age, and am now encouraging my grand daughters to ride (3 and 6 years old).

About 10-15 years ago my wife worked in Wolverhampton with very diverse colleagues. We formed a good friendship with a couple, the guy came to UK from Pakistan when he was about 7 or 8 years old in the 60s (he’s not sure of his actual birthday). Even though he’s no longer a strict Muslim, he wouldn’t allow his daughter to pick up cycling when she was a teenager For religious reasons he could not explain. My Dad was brought up Catholic in Ireland, dropped it when he came to England in WW2 but still had some deep rooted things he must have found it hard to go against. I think it takes generations for things like this to progress.

[redefined_cycles]

FWIW I don't believe there's anything specific from the religion that would have been stopping him (or his daughter) as such. In Islam there is a restriction on the intermingling of the sexes in a social context but thats mostly aimed at reducing the likihood to 'have a shag' outside of marriage.... Anyway, I won't go down that path in case anyone gets inadvertently offended.

FWIW I'm second gen muslim (dad came here to work with my grandad when dad was 12... 10/12/53 so that'd make him..) and take my daughter regularly cycling. I'd say I'm pretty strict muslim (move any harm in the path, be respectful to people around me whatever they are are from, be kind to my nieghbour, preserve my daily prayers etc etc) but it didn't stop me/us having my wife learning how to cycle. Although it never actually matured in to having her own bike but thats another kettle of fish (also taught her how to drive but again it never matured to a license and she gave up after 2 or 3 tests!).

Anyway, point being, some people do certain things that they attribute to their religion but its not actually so. An example being, how a chap I know that I've been encouraging to push his limits on the bike and take on multi day events. He 'telled' me that he doesn't do multi cos of the need to keep clean. I mentioned how the companions (of Mohammed PBUH and from whom we as muslims take our moral compass) got out there and did their thing and they were mire strict on hygiene and prayers than us. He never really had an answer except that 'that's why they're sahaba'.

On a sidenote (and something I just recalled), if there was restrictions on woman as some muslims think there is then there would nit have been female 'sahaba' that went out to war and took part on the battlefield. Thankfully there is people like Shaykh Akram Nadwi (Cambridge) and Mufti Menk who (in terms of Islam) are educating the masses of modern times.

Anyway, yerp, no specific restriction on (practicing) muslim ladies/girls cycling as such but they might need to think outta the box a bit to make it compatible with their fsith.

Last thing on the previous gens of muslims (only talking of that cos its a subject that I somehow know a little about) who never actuslly got educated on their religion. We sometimes do things that we think is Islam but actually its something inherited from our forefathers (generally the indoPak muslims come from a background of Hinduism).

Right, I'll stop there cos I'm hoping I've not offended anyonr ... so before saying summat that might be translated as unPC...

[tobasco]

I’m not one for taking offence at such things. One of my earliest memories is being stood behind my mother with a Catholic priest on the doorStep telling her I would be damned if she did not at least get me christened - she didn’t. He was a scary vision, hence the imprint.

My mate is also second generation. His thing about his daughter, as I understand it, was that he didn’t want her going cycling with groups that would include unknown men. He was okay if it was with the family, but that was it. I suggested he book her self defence classes, only half in jest.

[ScotRoutes]

Perhaps of some relevance.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020 ... -mounatins

[redefined_cycles]

Perhaps of some relevance.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020 ... -mounatins

Thats really good that Colin. Thanks for adding. Indeed very very relevant

On a sidenote (something that I read in that Guardian report made me/reminded me to share)... About 2004 [actually goes to check the CVMBC* times website], no... 2007 it was when I had my first ever eye opener to proper mtb. Out of a pitch of around 200 people - got 10 or 20 percent bigger each year as it was that well run by Jonnie from Hudds uni, what a guy - I was the only asian face and in the coming 3 years there was one other black face. Them first 2 or 3 years when I would come home battered, bruised and looking like a fish out of mucky water, my elder brother would take P out of me. Then after much encouragement he finally started joining the yearly event and he confessed that he was kinda jealous of me etc etc (all them previous years that I didn't mind stepping about in the mud)...

Anyway, the point being, my dad (I'm kind of 'the black sheep', if we're still allowed to use that term) would always be very with a, 'what an idiot you are' attitude towards me. In a nice way off course. Only after my elder (the precious one but not as precious as the girls) bro started joining did he actually accept that its a thing and started enquiring about our escapades...

Good to see more people are getting out and especially around Glaaaaaasgo. Isn't that the place where 'the deep fried and battered mars bar' was invented

[jameso]

JamesO after your mention about the TNR and opening it up for direct/easy entry to BAME etc I did some questioning of (predominantly but not limited to) muslim cyclists on the subject of Self Supported rides/bikepacking. Will try and PM you responses whenever I get round to copying/pasting the responses...

That would be really appreciated, thanks.

Edit to add, the points on cleanliness and faith / bikepacking, or Hinduism practices being inherited into Muslim faith, are genuinely interesting. I'm agnostic but theology I find fascinating, perhaps as it's such a different perspective to what I get from my own life.
I'm digressing sorry but seems sort of related .. a friend of mine joined the Marines years back and he spent time in Afghanistan. A whole complex situ/mess that I certainly don't understand, I don't think he did either at first but he came back far wiser. He told me about village elders -Pashtun I think?- who he needed to be able to talk/negotiate with. They (as I took it form what he said) had little respect or empathy for him initially as an atheist yet he said if he talked about his Christian faith (he was christened, massively stretching it to say he was practising Christian when I first knew him) they found a common ground in having a faith of any kind, and they developed a relationship that helped. That may be one example and not representative, I don't know, I thought it was interesting though.
Also to add.. if Mr Jones our secondary school RE teacher could read that ^ I might redeem myself a little for being one of many kids at that school who must've made him wonder why he bothered Sorry Mr Jones...

[Scud]

I hope viewpoints will change, i joined the army at just shy of 18, served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and despite having made some lifelong mates, there were some appalling attitudes to others, in particular muslim men and woman, not by everyone, but it was pretty ingrained especially when stationed with the Yanks. As i left i went travelling with a mate who happens to be Indian, we travelled through Morocco down into West Africa that first time in an old Landie, we both came back with a love of North and West Africa, and went on to form a travel company taking people on 5 week trips round Morocco or 3 months down into West Africa, as well as ferrying scientists and petro-chemical engineers in Libya and Algeria, and I cannot think of a time i was ever treated badly or with any contempt, despite serving.

I think we are often unfortunately a product of our upbringing and education. I have never blinked an eye taking my daughter out of school to go abroad, i have always believed that the best way to learn about a place or culture is to go there and see it, often the worst comments i hear from people are from people that simply know no different, and have not had the opportunities themselves to see any different, to travel or to sped time with others different themselves to find out that they are probably are not that different at all.

In the same way, i think sport really suffers from a lack of diverse role-models, if you are black or asian youth in the UK, then hopefully without stereotyping, your exposure will more likely be to sports like football or cricket, they are the sports you may play at school, they are the sports you see being played by friends, they are the sports your parents enjoyed, and you simply will not see someone riding a bike in France for 3 weeks as a role model. So the changes need to come from grassroots, there needs to be a concerted effort for cycling to be inclusive, for kids to feel safe to ride to school, for there to be local tracks, trails and events for all, in city centres and not just inaccessible (to them) parts of the country, with time BAME kids will see others enjoying these sports hopefully, will see them rise through the ranks and they become the role models to aspire too.

[redefined_cycles]

Hinduism practices being inherited into Muslim faith

I think I must have said it wrong James. I was meaning that cos the IndoPak (india/pakistani) muslims come from a background of predominantly Hiduism, sometimes, cos of lack of education into their faith (In this case Islam), they've sometimes erroneously continued the Hindu practices of their ancestors and mixed them up with thinking they're part of Islam.

A prime example of this being like what MaM said on that other thread about the cast system in which case its wuite possible he might have mixed it up with the Seikh faith. It's actually from Hinduism (don't wanna offend any Hindu people that might be reading so will be careful with my wording) the extreme cast system. Where for example the Untouchables are one of the lowest casts and only allowed to get the dirtiest jobs whereas the Brahmans are meant to be one of or the highest elite and they're eligible by association to that cast to the best of jobs (I think if you googled some reputable sources or youtubed it there'd be plenty info).

So how that was seen by me as I was growing up was many a time my mum calling my eldest brother (the spoilt snobby one who wouldn't even share cups and sauces/sources (well whatever they're spelt as!) with the rest of us. She'd say to him, you're a (bloody) Bramhan. Many, many years I never really got that but now on hindsight, I know that what she was saying was incorrect and actually unislamic. As according to Islam it detests racism/sexism/prejudism of any sorts and there was times when Muhammed (PBUH) scolded the companions very harshly in ceetain remarks they might have made due to their previous religion/understandings etc.

Hope that makes sense but if it didn't, bottom line is that islam is actually from The Quran, statements and actions of Muhammed as well as statements and actions of his Sahaba (companions) and anything thats been inherited from culture, if it goes against the faith (in this case by way of example, the cast system) then its meant to be removed from ones lifestyle.

He told me about village elders -Pashtun I think?- who he needed to be able to talk/negotiate with. They (as I took it form what he said) had little respect or empathy for him initially as an atheist yet he said if he talked about his Christian

served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and despite having made some lifelong mates, there were some appalling attitudes to others, in particular muslim men and woman

Another 2 examples of what happens when the 'village elders' or 'elders' are uneducated and they misunderstand what their religion is sctually teaching them (to be kind and courteous to everyone and not only those that you might be able to relate to etc). Me and my missus (well, actually my missus and her sister) had this issue for many years with her parents. As due to lack of knowledge (and they were trying to be the best muslims they could be) they got certain aspects wrong (thankfully not any prejudice issues in this case but rather what girls are and aren't allowed to do). Slowly with the help of the lessons and talks from the Islamic scholars, thankfully they've changed many viewpoints for the best.

Hope that might have enlightened you 2 chaps ever so slightly. For reference, the afghan older generation are a very scary people to deal with and its mainly due to their lack of education in certain matters and just following the herd...

On a sidenote... Mufti Menk recently (well in the past 7 years ) did a lecture specifically addressing the older folk and explaining that actually the girls and boys that were attempting to follow their faith to the Nth, could go ina actual fact go on a (chaparoned... from a certain distance) date pre marriage and take as much time as needed before deciding they were suitable life partners. That's something I found very unusual (me and the missus spoke over the phone and communicated for a few months/weeks and met in person once but in public premarriage) but he presented the evidences (from the lives of the companions of Muhammed etc) nicely. Now try telling that to an afghan village elder (not to be confused with what was originally known as the Taliban*) and you're asking for a death warrant.

Anyway... hopefully the MI6 won't be in touch

*Which literally means 'the students' and they were formed, from, what my uni student afghan made taught me, a bunch of students to try and tackle the problems of certain village elders/warlords and drug barrens...

[Cheeky Monkey]

THis popped up for me on FB from Sustrans:

https://www.sustrans.org.uk/our-blog/ne ... YplP6LJ-Lk

What does the report tell us?
The Covid-19 pandemic has brought to light many disparities within society.

People from ethnic minority groups and other disadvantaged communities being disproportionately affected by Covid-19 and over-represented within the key worker sector.

The recognition from our Prime Minister that obesity can increase the risk of serious illness and death from COVID-19 has prompted a new Government Obesity Strategy.

Cycling has proved its worth during the pandemic, as a safe and socially distanced way for people to get exercise and as a means to travel to work and for other essential journeys.

However, 74% of people from ethnic minority groups living in cities and towns do not currently cycle.

Despite low participation levels, the report found 55% of people from ethnic minority groups who do not currently cycle would like to start.

This compares to 37% of White people.


Transport isn't doing enough to address barriers for these groups
This report finds that the transport sector is not doing enough to address the barriers people from ethnic minority groups and other disadvantaged communities face.

Tackling safety, through protected cycle lanes and low-traffic neighbourhoods, is critical.

However, the report highlights a lack of confidence, security, as well as the financial outlay of purchasing a cycle as being some of the barriers that are more likely to prevent those from ethnic minority groups and other disadvantaged communities from cycling:

A third (33%) of people from ethnic minority groups were not confident in their cycling skills
25% of people from ethnic minority groups stated that a lack of facilities at home or work (e.g. secure cycle storage) was a barrier to cycling
20% of people from ethnic minority groups stated the cost of a suitable cycle stopped them from cycling.

What needs to be done?
In order to address these barriers, the report highlights recommendations which aim to help to work towards reducing inequalities within cycling.

While challenges exist between different demographic groups, including between different ethnic minority groups, the report finds many of the barriers to increasing diversity in cycling are shared.

Key recommendations highlighted in the report include an extension of the UK Government’s Cycle to Work Scheme to include those in low-income jobs, as well as support to those not in employment, to ensure that cost is not a barrier for anyone looking to purchase a cycle.

The report also urges the need for improvements in secure cycle storage in residential areas, and particularly for flats and high-rise buildings where storing a cycle inside may prove challenging.

To improve confidence free cycle training needs to be provided to all children and adults, and cycling infrastructure expanded to reach areas where transport options are poor and high traffic levels exist.


We must welcome and support all people to cycle
Daisy Narayanan, Director of Urbanism at Sustrans said:

“This report brings to light that for too long, the needs of so many have been ignored within cycle planning and development.

“In order to work towards real change and make cycling more inclusive, we call upon the industry, local authorities and central government to welcome and support all people to cycle.

"It is only when we move away from exclusively designing towns and cities for those who already have access to move through spaces with ease, can we really create equitable places to live and work”.


We need to start designing cycling for everyone
Susan Claris, Global Active Travel Leader, Arup said:

“The health, wellbeing and social benefits of cycling in our towns and cities are clear.

"But these benefits are not equally felt by everyone, and we need to do more to ensure that cycling truly is accessible for all.

“This guidance supports a move away from designing cities for people who already cycle, or have power and privilege.

"Instead, we need to use our collective skills, expertise and ambition as a sector to start designing cycling for everyone.”


Challenging the transport sector to do more
Jools Walker, Author of 'Back in the Frame' and cycling blogger said:

“If widening participation and improving planning for more marginalised groups to get into cycling is a goal, then all of these voices need to be given the platform to be heard, ensuring that the decisions made are rounded, informed and of course, genuinely representative.

“There has to be a significant shake-up within this sector if we're going to change it.

"It's a huge step to admit that you've 'got it wrong' in the past, but I challenge the transport sector to do more.”



Find out more about inclusive cycling in cities and towns and download the report.

Still reading and digesting.

[jameso]

Hinduism practices being inherited into Muslim faith

I think I must have said it wrong James. I was meaning that cos the IndoPak (india/pakistani) muslims come from a background of predominantly Hiduism, sometimes, cos of lack of education into their faith (In this case Islam), they've sometimes erroneously continued the Hindu practices of their ancestors and mixed them up with thinking they're part of Islam.

No, my wording was poor, sorry. I read mixed up and then said inherited and that implies I think one religion has a base in the other which isn't what you're saying. .

Another 2 examples of what happens when the 'village elders' or 'elders' are uneducated and they misunderstand what their religion is sctually teaching them (to be kind and courteous to everyone and not only those that you might be able to relate to etc). Me and my missus (well, actually my missus and her sister) had this issue for many years with her parents. As due to lack of knowledge (and they were trying to be the best muslims they could be) they got certain aspects wrong (thankfully not any prejudice issues in this case but rather what girls are and aren't allowed to do). Slowly with the help of the lessons and talks from the Islamic scholars, thankfully they've changed many viewpoints for the best.

And I did the same on this point, when I say 'little respect' that's bad wording. I'd be a terrible diplomat : ) I remember him saying they were (the situation considered) received more openly than he expected though it was the talk of a faith on his side that helped. This was a conversation from a number of years ago though.