Gatherings?

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 19729
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Gatherings?

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:49 am

I'm just wondering if anyone can offer any insight into how some events / rides are managing to go ahead with the restriction on gatherings stil in place. My own thinking (rightly or wrongly) is that it hinges on the definition of gathering. Is 50 people milling about in a carpark for a short while actually a gathering? Or, is it simply a matter of ignoring guidance and simply cracking on?

Obviously, I'm searching for legit ways of carrying on but the 'gathering' thing seems to be a proper stumbling block.

Anyone?
What value a life half lived if the half you lived was the wrong half?

Taylor
Posts: 3216
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:27 pm
Location: Brizzle
Contact:

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Taylor » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:07 am

I suppose you've got to be mindful of what the general public think, as 50 cyclist or 5, are in a group if they're within 50 metres of each other irrespective of social distancing or wether they're all going for solo rides.
Lots of the general idiots will lump us into the same group of lycra clad lout's.
I think it boils down to what will give you less grief in the long run as you're not anonymous in the area for disorganising events.

User avatar
Piemonster
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:00 pm
Location: The Fife Riviera

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Piemonster » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:09 am

I think I’d be taking a good look at not just how to do it safely, but by organising any gathering what liabilities would I risk by doing anything at all.

To be honest, our household does a lot of event work, it’s a total cluster**** and I’ve not really paid any attention as to whether you have any contemporary examples to take a cue from. Are any small community events taking place in wales at the minute?

slarge
Posts: 2042
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:49 pm
Location: MTB mecca (Warwickshire)

Re: Gatherings?

Post by slarge » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:34 am

Some events seem to get away with it by either limiting the size of the group, or having staggered starts etc.

For the BB200/300 - you could have staggered starts - 30 minute windows for each sub group of 20 riders, and the staff room bit might need to be in the sports hall or outside. The only trouble with outside is that it is far more visible, however would be less risky.

Plus I guess you could insist on face coverings or something to show you have taken adequate precautions even if they're not required in Wales. That would help with the close proximity of people in the staff room.

Chew
Posts: 2545
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Location: Halifax

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Chew » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:47 am

The guidance is here, but its all a bit contradictory.....

https://gov.wales/coronavirus-regulatio ... tion-39253


Personally I cant see anyway that the WRT could be run from BB towers without a lot of hassle.
I wouldnt want to put you or Dee in that situation.


We still run our Wednesday night rides, but its all under the radar.
Everyone knows to meet up at the usual time, at the usual place, before we head off in smaller groups, but theres little organisation and numbers are rarely over a dozen.

User avatar
ScotRoutes
Posts: 6582
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am
Location: Cairngorms
Contact:

Re: Gatherings?

Post by ScotRoutes » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:51 am

Probably different rules in Wales, but up here even funerals are limited to 20 mourners. And that's outdoors.

User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 19729
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:18 am

Probably different rules in Wales, but up here even funerals are limited to 20 mourners. And that's outdoors.
I think everything is limited to 30 here Colin.

I suppose I'm wondering how many are expected at the YD 200/300 this weekend or the Dales Divide at the end of next month - but probably more importantly, having not ridden either, are riders 'gathered' at the start?

I see the Grinduro is still scheduled for early Oct (same weekend as the BB200) and that's a pretty high profile event starting from the centre of Mach with camping, party etc, yet there aeems to be no official word or hint that restrictions on gatherings are likely to be eased anytime soon ... confused.
What value a life half lived if the half you lived was the wrong half?

slarge
Posts: 2042
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:49 pm
Location: MTB mecca (Warwickshire)

Re: Gatherings?

Post by slarge » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:23 am

The YD300 isn't doing food I think before the start, and it is variable start times, so there's no group start, and I imagine the number of riders is not huge (although the 300 shares the weekend with a 200 road ride).

If you look at previous BB200's there hasn't been that many people actually grouped together at any 1 time (but I suspect more by luck than judgement)

Chew
Posts: 2545
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Location: Halifax

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Chew » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:27 am

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:18 am
I see the Grinduro is still scheduled for early Oct (same weekend as the BB200) and that's a pretty high profile event starting from the centre of Mach with camping, party etc, yet there aeems to be no official word or hint that restrictions on gatherings are likely to be eased anytime soon ... confused.
They're probably just sat there with crossed fingers hoping that things change by that date.

If you're thinking BB200, then it could be run like the HT550.
Heres a route, a starting place and time and sort yourselves out.
I'd use a random town and not the community centre in Llanbrynmair

User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 6263
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: Gatherings?

Post by whitestone » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:30 am

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:18 am

I suppose I'm wondering how many are expected at the YD 200/300 this weekend or the Dales Divide at the end of next month - but probably more importantly, having not ridden either, are riders 'gathered' at the start?
Not sure on the numbers who are turning up but Stuart's first video said he was close to his 60 rider limit for the two rides combined so was closing entries but then last week said he was allowing entries on the day so presumably enough have said they weren't attending.

Normally they are a group start at 8am but this time he's trying to avoid a "gathering" by basically having us turn up, grab the goodie bag, sign on and head off. There's a two hour start window as well - 60 riders over two hours is not going to have a group of riders heading through town all at once.

With people arriving at random times I suppose there'll be some clustering but it will likely only be a handful at most.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry

Scud
Posts: 539
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:18 pm
Location: North Norfolk

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Scud » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:37 am

I'm organising a fat bike ride here on North Norfolk coast, and i've just gone with what i feel is sensible and made sure everything is kept outdoors, i think rates of transmission with distancing outdoors are really low, it is when people are cooped up inside, the outbreaks in Leicester etc seem to have stemmed from large factories and work-places where people are all packed in together, and as the high street opens up and people stop exercising and revert to walking around Primark touching everything

Made sure cafe for half way stop has an outside serving hatch and booked ahead so they know there is a group of 12 coming and we can safely distance from others.

I think if you tried to make sense of Government guidelines you'd be found rocking in a corner, i ride and see people i know i can trust to have a certain level of common sense.

User avatar
htrider
Posts: 3392
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Fife
Contact:

Re: Gatherings?

Post by htrider » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:55 am

Different start locations? I know it kind of defeats the object of the group ride but mebbes better than not having it at all...

benp1
Posts: 3455
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:36 pm
Location: North London

Re: Gatherings?

Post by benp1 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:05 pm

I agree with the sentiment about erring on the side of caution. It's not really the time to be grabbing headlines

It's a real shame as the social aspect of the WRT, particularly including the gathering at the start and the perusing at bikes and set ups, is one of the reasons it's so good.

I suppose one option is to give out the coordinates and then just get people to make their own way at the start and finish, people will bump into each other on the way around.

jameso
Posts: 3918
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Chilterns

Re: Gatherings?

Post by jameso » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:09 pm

At what point does an event become a solo or very small group ride? Most of them I think, after a few miles - so as long as the start offers the social element people want in a safe and guideline-compatible way I can't see the problem. People can say hi and check out bike set ups from an acceptable distance in a field. That's not to say it's risk-free o/c but we're all balancing risk-reward in different ways currently.

User avatar
ScotRoutes
Posts: 6582
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am
Location: Cairngorms
Contact:

Re: Gatherings?

Post by ScotRoutes » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:00 pm

We'd set a limit of 30 for the Cairngorms Loop. Currently looking like 20, unless there is a rush. Partly based on an expected further relaxation of restrictions.

User avatar
psling
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:36 am
Location: Forest of Dean

Re: Gatherings?

Post by psling » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:31 pm

Difficult one with the WRT given the nature of the event where the social gathering is as important as the riding.

Trying to take it in a logical sequence:

- set out Car Park to allow parking rows with adequate distancing between vehicles.
- marshal entrance and give cloakroom ticket to each arriving rider as well as parking instructions, signing-on and tee shirts [any queuing at this point will be in cars].
- have ride start gate in car park field with distanced queuing system.
- at start gate have a tombola type board with winning (cloakroom ticket) numbers and hand out sponsors' prizes [may cause excessive queuing?].
- riders set off individually as they pass through start gate [they can meet up later if they want to ride in groups].

Would mean no single start time. Would mean no bike weigh-in. Would probably mean no LHC group. Could be chaos if field is really wet. Entrants would need to avoid forming large groups around the field or in the queue to chat / catch up / compare set-ups.

At the end it would mean some method of checking-in then sloping away to discuss it all later on social media. Wot, no cake? Bacon butties and tea at start may be possible with controlled queuing, not sure how tea and cake could be taken at end without causing larger groups?

Just thinking aloud really... :cool:

p.s. - I'd be willing to help at beginning and/or end as necessary :-bd
We go out into the hills to lose ourselves, not to get lost. You are only lost if you need to be somewhere else and if you really need to be somewhere else then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with.

User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 19729
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:12 pm

I have considered most of those options Peter but I can't help thinking that a point is quickly reached where it stops being the WRT. As people say, it's a very social affair and it's obviously difficult to retain that element while being seen to do the right thing.

I know it's unlikely to happen and appreciate the reasons why but it would be nice if there was some kind of timeframe guide to work with. It'll also be nice if the information given remained correct for more than a day ... middle of last week 'face masks will not be required while inside shops in Wales'. Yesterday, 'facemasks are required while shopping in Wales' and today ... no they're not :wink:
What value a life half lived if the half you lived was the wrong half?

User avatar
RIP
Posts: 5289
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:24 pm
Location: Seat 23 (window, facing), Coach H, 08.05 Leighton Buzzard - Euston
Contact:

Re: Gatherings?

Post by RIP » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:35 pm

First thing is, like Peter, and no doubt plenty others, I'd be very happy to help in whatever ways you think would be helpful/useful.

Assuming the 'big cuddly gathering' at the start is not seeming an option nearer the time, you're right that it wouldn't be the exact WRT we know and love, but enough of the format could still keep the general feel alive, as per things like Peter's suggestions.

Main attractions for me with WRT are: the 'vagueness' of everything between when we leave and return, bumping into each other, the social bit in Y Star and your gaff at the start, popping in to local shops, caffs, pubs etc, lots of rain.

I don't (naively?) see big problems away from your place - we'd be spread across mid Wales, and would be self-'policing'.

So the issue's at your place. a/ keeping distance, b/ keeping sanitised, c/ tea and cake issues.

(contd...
Last edited by RIP on Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

User avatar
RIP
Posts: 5289
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:24 pm
Location: Seat 23 (window, facing), Coach H, 08.05 Leighton Buzzard - Euston
Contact:

Re: Gatherings?

Post by RIP » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:42 pm

Even with a b & c, albeit causing a fair bit of effort for you, it would indeed still feel like WRT - speaking personally.

Re locals' feeling - I'll bet they'd love some cash to be spent with them (tell punters not to bring any supplies from home!); and have you actually asked [m]any? Sorry that sounded very insulting :) Being you I'm sure you have, but a straw poll would give you a good idea.

Asked Welsh Gov?

Do you feel the vast majority - no, everyone - who turned up could be trusted to stick to Rule#1 at the start and finish? And also not to cause a prob with locals when out there? You've often said the locals have been impressed with the general behaviour on events. I suppose conversely that also makes it a 'more to lose' if that gets squandered ;).

You could be here all day trying to thrash it out over the forum (assuming you haven't already made a decision :) ) - would a videoconf with a few BBBers help to bounce ideas around?

I reckon Peter's a long way towards it with his ideas, but it's all effort/possible-hassle for Stu. But but, help is available :).
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

Chew
Posts: 2545
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Location: Halifax

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Chew » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:50 pm

RIP wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:35 pm
I don't (naively?) see big problems away from your place - we'd be spread across mid Wales, and would be self-'policing'.
The "event" isnt really an issue Reg.
Its more the "gathering" at the start/end

There are several houses to pass before you get to BB Towers, and it will be noticed that 50+ cars go up that road on a Saturday morning, whereas on a normal Saturday it would only be a handful.

Suddenly theres a field with 50+ cars in it.
It would only take one person to call the police and a visit would cause a lot of questions as to why they were there.

User avatar
RIP
Posts: 5289
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:24 pm
Location: Seat 23 (window, facing), Coach H, 08.05 Leighton Buzzard - Euston
Contact:

Re: Gatherings?

Post by RIP » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:52 pm

Chew wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:50 pm
RIP wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:35 pm
I don't (naively?) see big problems away from your place - we'd be spread across mid Wales, and would be self-'policing'.
The "event" isnt really an issue Reg.
Its more the "gathering" at the start/end

There are several houses to pass before you get to BB Towers, and it will be noticed that 50+ cars go up that road on a Saturday morning, whereas on a normal Saturday it would only be a handful.

Suddenly theres a field with 50+ cars in it.
It would only take one person to call the police and a visit would cause a lot of questions as to why they were there.
Absolutely, as we've said it's the start/finish.

Police questions - ask them? :)
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 19729
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:59 pm

To be fair Reg, I've no concerns about riders passing anything amongst ourselves ... we're all nearly grown ups :wink: My real concerns are the potential for bad (and yes it would be mis-guided) feeling and also the legalities - ie, as the organiser of a 'gathering' can you be prosecuted / fined etc?

If we go ahead, then I'd probably be inclined to steer folk towards the wide open spaces where they're not likely to encounter many folk and busy coastal spots where there'll be lots of folk, so won't stand out amongst the masses.

I shall be having a word with the law but in these parts, they're not really the law :wink:
What value a life half lived if the half you lived was the wrong half?

middleagedmadness
Posts: 1717
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:37 pm
Location: Tir Na Nog

Re: Gatherings?

Post by middleagedmadness » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:10 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:59 pm

I shall be having a word with the law but in these parts, they're not really the law :wink:
Is that the sound of a banjo in the background there stu

User avatar
RIP
Posts: 5289
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:24 pm
Location: Seat 23 (window, facing), Coach H, 08.05 Leighton Buzzard - Euston
Contact:

Re: Gatherings?

Post by RIP » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:12 pm

bad feeling - you know everyone in the valley and they know you. Straw poll?

legalities - Govt?

Re-reading Peter's points, the one that stood out for me was 'potential chaos if field wet'.

Heyyy. Woah there Reginald, I'm gonna back off now, this is suddenly sounding like pressure you don't need at all :wink:
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 19729
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Gatherings?

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:23 pm

No pressure at all Reg, the input is good :wink:
What value a life half lived if the half you lived was the wrong half?

Post Reply