And from the Cumbria police we have ....

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Bearbonesnorm
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And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:04 pm

Officers from West Cumbria alongside partners from the Lake District National Park and United Utilities are working together in a joint operation to tackle wild camping.

In recent weeks there has been an increase of wild campers and campervans on private land in the Lake District National Park which is illegal. Those found camping could face a fine for breaching the regulations.

Partners will be carrying out joint patrols over the next few weeks in the Keswick and Borrowdale valley area and will be also targeting those setting fires and causing damage to the land.

Sergeant Scott Adams said: “As restrictions have begun to ease we have seen a number of wild campers in the Lake District National Park.

“It is illegal to camp without permission from the landowner and you will be asked to move on and could face a fine.

“During this current climate we are encouraging the public to plan ahead and respect local communities, there are many ways you can enjoy our area without causing damage or camping illegally. ”

http://orlo.uk/kHHpd

Caroline Holden, Land Agent at United Utilities, added: “The reservoir catchment land at Thirlmere and Haweswater acts as the first stage of the treatment process for the clean drinking water we all rely on. If trees are destroyed and human waste and litter are left discarded it all has the potential to pollute our precious water resources, as well as being unsightly and dangerous for those enjoying the countryside.

“We welcome courteous day visitors but camping is not permitted. All we ask is that people follow the countryside code – cause no damage and leave nothing behind.”
Perhaps our best chance is a long nasty winter :wink:
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Escape Goat » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:09 pm

This surely will die down when the majority go back to work?

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by jam bo » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:35 pm

If it’s anything like Dartmoor, where you are legally allowed to wild camp >100yds from the road for most of the moors , they will be after the easy pickings camped next to their car, next to the road.

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Escape Goat » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:47 pm

I like to think that's the black and white of it, but there must be some sort of unwritten rule where obvisouly respectful people with nothing on the floor except their bivvy and a bike would be looked past.

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by sean_iow » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:16 pm

I'm no expert but I thought it was unlawful not illegal and it's up to the landowner to ask you to move and if you refuse they have to go though the courts? The police have no powers to move you on? If they did how did the protest camps at Twyford and Greenham Common survive? And why is it so hard for local authorities to move travelers on? That press release is worded to deter people. If they have lit a fire or damaged something then that's a criminal matter and the police can act.
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Mariner » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:39 pm

The bizzies were wittering on about not being able to enforce face masks in shops because it was private property.
Why would private land be different?

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Cheddar Man » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:54 pm

Escape Goat wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:47 pm
I like to think that's the black and white of it, but there must be some sort of unwritten rule where obvisouly respectful people with nothing on the floor except their bivvy and a bike would be looked past.
But that is the problem. 'Obviously respectful people'. We are back to the other wildcamping thread, what you mean is 'people like me', not 'people like them'.

Don't get me wrong, I slept over on Saturday in Lyme Regis on Saturday night, and kind of felt cool about because I am obviously respectful. As for the Police though, they can't exactly post a release saying ............

"The Police would like to remind anyone who is a bit iffy, or not that respectful, that wild camping is illegal in most of the UK. We don't mind if you are, say, a middle manager or other professional person, that's great, just please refrain from bringing your rough council estate friends or people who drink lager"

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by sean_iow » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:05 pm

There are plenty of existing laws to use to stop the type of behavior we've seen, fires/rubbish/damage to trees/fences/walls etc. and these should be used. It worries me that they have chosen to focus on 'wild camping' as the problem and not the other actions.

Many years ago when there were issues on the Island with anti-social behavior on green lanes by 4x4s there was lots of talk about '4x4 drivers' being the problem and that the lanes should have TROs to stop it. There were lots of other laws that could have been used and the responsible 4x4 drivers said they'd not close the lanes as they had a right to use them and the behavior of these few (driving into/through gates/driving off the lanes onto private land etc) should be dealt with by the police for the other offenses committed. The 4x4 club even provided details of vehicles seen driven irresponsibly but these were never followed up and the main green lane across the Island now has a permanent TRO on it.

I worry that the actions of the few will jepardise our existing rights and privileges. And if that sounds far fetched, if you'd asked the old boys I know from the 4x4 club whether in the 80s they thought they could have their rights taken away they'd have thought it ridiculous to even suggest it, yet now most of the lanes are closed. We need to get on top of this proactively before we're all tarred with the pop-up tent/cider drinking/nitrous breathing brush.
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by RIP » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:32 pm

sean_iow wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:05 pm
It worries me that they have chosen to focus on 'wild camping' as the problem and not the other actions.
Suucinctly put.

I feel a bit stupid for not being able to pinpoint why they're doing it. Someone put it into words for me please.
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by htrider » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:58 pm

They are doing it because lots of people have written to their councilor / MP to complain about all those nasty people lighting fires and leaving a mess. So the Govt acts to get some more votes. Knowing the cops, they themselves won't be interested in what we do. The problem is that if any hawk eyed resident / landowner spies you heading for the hills with your bivvy gear they will hassle the Police to go after you, or worse take action themselves....

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Gregsie » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:04 pm

RIP wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:32 pm
sean_iow wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:05 pm
It worries me that they have chosen to focus on 'wild camping' as the problem and not the other actions.
Suucinctly put.

I feel a bit stupid for not being able to pinpoint why they're doing it. Someone put it into words for me please.
Think their point of view is that if they clamp down on 'wild camping' the associated fires / damage / litter will sort themselves out.

Mate of mine got collared by a gamekeeper as he was packing up on Kinder Scout early one Sunday a few weeks ago. Luckily he was a few hundred metres from the land he was managed. However he said the keeper was all right and said he was not too worried about him being up there as he 'looked like he knew what he was doing'.

I reckon the type of 'wild camping' that the authorities will be after will be the ones that are the type that most folk that are into outdoor pursuits would not identify with. My guess is they'd probably go for convictions along the criminal damage route as trespass is a civil offence. Guessing it's yet another reason to add to that extremely long list of why not to have a camp fire.
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Lazarus » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:10 am

But that is the problem. 'Obviously respectful people'. We are back to the other wildcamping thread, what you mean is 'people like me', not 'people like them'.
I think I hear you but i dont think anyone actually cares about anything here but behaviour- the us is people who respect the land and the suroundings - the them is those who turn up make a mess, leave everything and then depart.

I dont care who use the roads or the countryside but i do care how they use it and if it is wrong I wilal call them out - not becausee I think [ or even care] if they are chavs but simply because of what they do.

I dont think this law will be encted much , if at all on "us" because i think they realise that
1) they cannot really police us as we camp too remote
2) if they dont catch us they wont know we have been so they care less about us- ie locals dont notice and call the cops as we leave no trace.
3) coppers are unlikely to spend their shift walking 6 miles up a mountain to see if there is someone camped somewhere up there .

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by jameso » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:14 am

I dont think this law will be encted much , if at all on "us" because i think they realise that
1) they cannot really police us as we camp too remote
2) if they dont catch us they wont know we have been so they care less about us- ie locals dont notice and call the cops as we leave no trace.
3) coppers are unlikely to spend their shift walking 6 miles up a mountain to see if there is someone camped somewhere up there .
Agreed. Intent and what gets said by authorities vs what actually happens to those of us with subtle, well out of the way camp / pause for rest spots who LNT - nothing. Unfortunately the police are so under-resourced these days that our take on wild camping just wouldn't be a concern to them, doubt it would be in any case.
It worries me that they have chosen to focus on 'wild camping' as the problem and not the other actions.
Current govt does tend to focus on the most top-level, mainstream-identifiable aspect of anything. Sound bites with cut-through or emotive images etc. And I'll stop there on that point : )

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Ray Young » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:50 am

I think this will die down as things return to normal after covid. My wife and I looked into booking a campsite for a few days but gave up after looking at about 8 which were all fully booked.

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by psling » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:30 pm

I actually agree with the statement and can fully understand why it has been made. It is a problem in the area in which I live too and it has been much more noticeable during the last few months. Noticeable because it is 'in your face' and a lot of people are just sticking two fingers up to those who live and work in the area.

Having said that (and taking the "us" and "them" line) low-key, discreet, out-of-sight overnighting in ones or twos is unlikely to be an issue in my opinion; it's not as if we're out everywhere all the time despite the increasing popularity of our pastime.
I acknowledge what Sean says about thin end of wedge but his example is talking about motorised vehicles "churning up the countryside" which could be more likened to riding pushbikes away from bridleways than the actual overnight camping of back- and bike-packers.
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by AndyTheBikeGuy » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:24 pm

A major change which I hope is just to add an extra barrier to entry rather than something they'll actually try to enforce is the LDNPA have changed their Wild Camping Page so that it now states it's not permitted anywhere within the park without prior permission whereas it used to say it was traditionally allowed.

30th May 2020:
Wild camping etiquette - dos and don't
Camping away from an organised campsite is called wild camping. Legally wherever you camp you must have the permission of a landowner to camp on their land, though there is a tradition of wild camping in the Lake District.
Today:
Wild camping
Wild camping is not permitted anywhere in the Lake District without prior permission from the landowner. As the National Park Authority we do not have the power to allow camping on private land and we do not permit camping on the small amount of land that we own. Camping in car parks or on roadside verges is not allowed at any time.
I live just outside the National Park in SW Cumbria and my local valley (Duddon) hasn't been too affected by the recent influx of visitors, probably because there's no lake and no large areas to congregate nor a huge number of places to park up, but Wasdale has been overrun and I hope it's just the destructive and fly-tipping element the local authorities are trying to crack down on.
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Shewie » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:42 pm

I don't think that actually changes much, other than clearly outlawing the neds from car camping on the areas the NP own themselves.

It's still impractical to seek the land owners permission as most of them are overseas, I can't see much changing for those who put the effort in to get higher than the intake walls, it sounds like they're just covering their backs.

Hopefully they will get more powers to eradicate the recent influx of knobheads and we can get back to enjoying these beautiful places like we used to, once the flights to Magaluf and Benidorm are running more regularly I'm sure this will go away.

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by redefined_cycles » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:46 pm

You forgot Ibiza??

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by psling » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:58 pm

Shewie wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:42 pm
Hopefully they will get more powers to eradicate the recent influx of knobheads and we can get back to enjoying these beautiful places like we used to, once the flights to Magaluf and Benidorm are running more regularly I'm sure this will go away.
I think there is some truth in this along with campsites, hostels, B&B, etc., opening up again. I hope so anyway.
redefined_cycles wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:46 pm
You forgot Ibiza??
My 18 year old niece is off there this weekend with a couple of her mates. Her boyfriend was not impressed. He is now apparently her ex-boyfriend....
Last edited by psling on Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Richard G » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:34 pm

Ugh, I'm reminded of a flight I once took to Alicante (nearest international airport to Benidorm)... grim, grim, grim.

Yes, I appreciate I'm a snob. But still, the behaviour on some of those people was absolutely disgusting.

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by Mariner » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:42 pm

coppers are unlikely to spend their shift walking 6 miles up a mountain to see if there is someone camped somewhere up there .
A lot of them do ride mountain bikes.
It not just for show is it? :shock:

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by RIP » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:57 pm

psling wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:58 pm
My 18 year old niece is off there this weekend with a couple of her mates. Her boyfriend was not impressed. He is now apparently her ex-boyfriend....
Where did he want to go then? Skegness? Certainly some compatibility issues there :smile: .
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by psling » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:03 pm

RIP wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:57 pm
psling wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:58 pm
My 18 year old niece is off there this weekend with a couple of her mates. Her boyfriend was not impressed. He is now apparently her ex-boyfriend....
Where did he want to go then? Skegness? Certainly some compatibility issues there :smile: .
He wasn't invited, it's a girl's weekender. That was the problem.... :lol:
We go out into the hills to lose ourselves, not to get lost. You are only lost if you need to be somewhere else and if you really need to be somewhere else then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with.

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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by K1100T » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:55 pm

Shewie wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:42 pm
Hopefully they will get more powers to eradicate the recent influx of knobheads and we can get back to enjoying these beautiful places like we used to, once the flights to Magaluf and Benidorm are running more regularly I'm sure this will go away.
They had to shut the strip in Shagaluf due to the influx of drunk British idiots...
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Re: And from the Cumbria police we have ....

Post by slarge » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:01 pm

I still think that if no one knows you are there then they are unlikely to come and find you - so it's common sense in my head - arrive late, leave early and pitch up out of sight. Plus don't knob around with campfires and headtorches late into the night.

And if you can use the darker coloured tarps/tents etc that don't stand out quite as much as the bright yellow/orange tents then you are far more likely to be undisturbed. Staying for a couple of days is clearly going to invite a visit from landowners / police / local neds with a sense of humour...

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