GCN does bikepacking

[Gregsie]

I was just wondering, how a comment about a short YouTube Video about bike packing (watched it, didn’t find anything of particular interest), became a three page not-quite-argument about racial discrimination.

Scratching my head abut that too. Haven't posted for a few months and didn't expect it to escalate like that !

[Bearbonesnorm]

I was just wondering, how a comment about a short YouTube Video about bike packing (watched it, didn’t find anything of particular interest), became a three page not-quite-argument about racial discrimination.

You've been here long enough Lu

[stevenshand]

GCN have Manon Lloyd who is good on the road side and Katherine Moore on the off road side, Katherine does the Unpaved gravel/bikepacking podcast too,

Katherine hasn't worked there for over a year. Emma Pooley didn't last long either. Both really added something to the channel.

Just to add that Jenny Graham is now working with GCN. I know she was a guest on a previous bikepacking piece but is now a contributor/presenter (don't know what it's called ).

[middleagedmadness]

Not wanting to stoke the fire as I’m a middle aged short fat white male , but living where I live it’s a cultural melting pot of every creed , a lot of people my age ride bikes of all creeds when I asked a couple of my neighbours (not white but definitely middle aged ) if they wanted to join for a quick night out I got asked the question why do I want to sleep in a body bag and sh1t in a trench and the only answer I could come up with truthfully was I enjoy it , now to them I’m the odd one out , from what I could work out especially with my Sikh friends is it’s not a thing that happens within their communities, as for youngsters , it takes a brave young fella or lass to break from the things they see their parents and grand parents doing , too a lot of people in the inner cities (and most cultural diversity is based in inner cities)the outdoors is still viewed as privileged hobbies whether they be white or of different creed , I know there’s a lot of racism within society but if you look into the cast system in India then you’ll see it just as bad if not worse,

[RIP]

Nice to hear that first-hand experience Stu. Stu1 mentioned it and so did I. Of course we should encourage people to join in things such as bikepacking but if they don't wanna do it they don't wanna do it. If it's not something that appeals for cultural or practical reasons we don't have to say that then means there's a representation problem. It's not the same as 'people group X are not allowed to vote' as was the case in the UK for centuries and was rightly changed.

I'm interested in what 'not represented' means as well. I think the Venn diagram of unrepresented people is extremely complex and overlapping. It's far too simplistic to say '50% of the population are women so there's a big problem if 50% of bikepackers aren't women', or '2% of the population are Sikhs so big problem if 2/5ths of one bikepacker isn't Sikh in a group of 20 smelly muddy middleaged mostly white idiots'.

I was interested to hear Stu1's comment about Women's LHC and no takers. If someone like Cath with her vast experience, expertise and understanding can't drum up interest then it's not for want of trying.

And Lu, we kept nattering because a/ it's interesting and does have some relevance, but more importantly b/ the pubs are shut and aren't fulfilling their usual 'care in the community' function of keeping us all rounded up and out of sight .

Anyway, keep welcoming everyone and anyone to BBB events and things will take their course naturally.

And yes obv this should be a separate topic so people can ignore it if they wish .

[Cheddar Man]

Nice to hear that first-hand experience Stu. Stu1 mentioned it and so did I. Of course we should encourage people to join in things such as bikepacking but if they don't wanna do it they don't wanna do it. If it's not something that appeals for cultural or practical reasons we don't have to say that then means there's a representation problem. It's not the same as 'people group X are not allowed to vote' as was the case in the UK for centuries and was rightly changed.

snip snip snip....

And there, in bold, is the problem.

It is too lazy to say that no-one does it, so they don't want to. Only around 100 or so years ago we had no female MPs, clearly because until Nancy Astor, no women wanted to be MPs. Or until Maggie, no women wanted to be Prime Minister. Or possibly, until Diane Abbott, no black women wanted to be an MP?

Maybe though there is something else going on? A quick read back through this forum sort of suggests that this lark is an evolution for many of us. There are a lot of ex-runners with screwed up knees on bikes nowadays, quite a few of us were climbers and even more just general 'outdoorsy types'. If you read back through this thread we find that quite a few of us tell tales of how 'there were no black faces in my climbing/running/hashing/parachuting club at all back in the day'.

Now we have evolved as we get older in to a hobby which is probably easier on the joints, quite adventurous and still with a degree of excitement and guess what we find? No black faces have evolved with us, because they weren't there in the first place in the 80s and 90s doing the stuff that has brought us all here to this evolution.

So, it's not that they don't want to do it, it's that they didn't grow up doing it, and that is because of the chances that were offered to minority groups when we were all watching 'Love Thy Neighbour' and 'Mind Your Language' on Friday nights on the BBC! Bloody none.

[shutupthepunx]

doesn't making these spaces welcoming have alot to do with things? and just because we say/think something is something, doesnt mean it actually is.

two groups both 'welcoming to women'

a) group of men - lad culture, sexist jokes, objectification of women, come-ons etc

b) group of men - none of that sorta thing

EDIT: while i think most of us think we arent racist or sexist or homophobic etc we are. we may not want to be or actively try to be, but i dont think that stops us.

[Lazarus]

I dont think most of us are actually but i think the real problem is that some who are have not realsied it and actively deny it - this is aimed at wider society /general rather than this community/anyone here.

Lets hope greater inclusivity is for the generation coming through now as progress is always slow.

[tobasco]

Is the/a root of the problem maybe those who have closed their minds to learning. “There are none so blind ...” etc.

[Dave Barter]

So, it's not that they don't want to do it, it's that they didn't grow up doing it, and that is because of the chances that were offered to minority groups when we were all watching 'Love Thy Neighbour' and 'Mind Your Language' on Friday nights on the BBC! Bloody none.

This is a very insightful comment.

[ScotRoutes]

Another thing which occurred to me earlier is that I went camping and hiking when in the Cubs and Scouts. Things may have changed but those organisations were heavily based upon and around the Christian church.

[Lazarus]

Still exist but dont mention the religion that much -according to my kids who went
I suspect the guides still get sewing and cooking badges !

[Taylor]

I suspect the guides still get sewing and cooking badges !

Don't be daft, girls are allowed in cubs/scouts nowadays but boys aren't allowed to join the brownies or guides.
They both do cooking and sewing, you raving sexist.

[Boab]

Another thing which occurred to me earlier is that I went camping and hiking when in the Cubs and Scouts. Things may have changed but those organisations were heavily based upon and around the Christian church.

Yup, you weren't allowed to be a leader unless you were religious. They did open it up to other religions though, so you could swear allegiance to [insert chosen diety here], rather than just "God". When I became an ASL, I just lied. It was nice, a few years ago, to see them finally dropping the requirement to believe in a mythical sky fairy, in order to be a leader.