Budget Bags

[Mythste]

Hello!

First time poster, medium term lurker. Semi-competent bike packer.

A wee bit of background. I've done a lot of what one would have to call bike "touring". Panniers front and back, food for days, and a 50+ kg loaded bike.

As a recent convert to mountain biking, I've invested in some pretty basic frame bags for one and two night stints, with my first foray being into the wild East Lancashire hills for a night this Friday just gone. I used an alpkit soloist tent and it performed admirably as I hunkered down for the night in what turned out to be driving rain, 2 metre visibility, and howling winds all night.

Fortunately, It was about 10 degrees which I consider quite toasty in any normal situation, but I really struggled to keep warm around my hips and waist. My current bag is a Blacks Aerolight 1000, which has served me well for a good few years but I suspect there are smaller, lighter, and warmer options. It's rated down to 0 for comfort but It seems I'm more susceptible to the cold than I thought. I recognise the figures are guides at best.

I'll spend what I need to spend to get some long term value out of my next bag, but would ideally like to stick as close to £150 as I can. A small pack size is more important to me than sheer light weight. I'm also a stomach/side sleeper so anything that is overly tight won't work. Fortunately I'm only 5'7" so length is seldom an issue.

Any and all advice is gratefully received, thanks in advance!

[whitestone]

wild East Lancashire hills

Careful now, that's getting mighty close to Yorkshire

What sleeping mat were you using? Better to think of things as a system rather than individual items. Generally light, compact and decent comes at a price.

Have you considered a quilt? The Cumulus range are popular on here, I'm fine with the bottom end model, the 150, down to around 5C but I'm a warm sleeper. I'm 1m80 tall and it's fine for length. Packs pretty small, maybe 2-3 litres.https://backcountry.scot/product/cumulus-quilt-150/ for a UK link though it's marked as out of stock - there are suppliers on the continent who ship to the UK, I've used these before - https://www.outdoorline.sk/en/quilts

[Mythste]

wild East Lancashire hills

Careful now, that's getting mighty close to Yorkshire

What sleeping mat were you using? Better to think of things as a system rather than individual items. Generally light, compact and decent comes at a price.

Have you considered a quilt? The Cumulus range are popular on here, I'm fine with the bottom end model, the 150, down to around 5C but I'm a warm sleeper. I'm 1m80 tall and it's fine for length. Packs pretty small, maybe 2-3 litres.https://backcountry.scot/product/cumulus-quilt-150/ for a UK link though it's marked as out of stock - there are suppliers on the continent who ship to the UK, I've used these before - https://www.outdoorline.sk/en/quilts

I'm actually not sure where the border was considering the quiet little spot I found. It could have been either Lancashire or Yorkshire - The sheeps accent didn't give much away.

Good question on the mat, I use an Alpkit Numo which i'm loathe to change due to the aformentioned stomach/side sleeping issue.

Interested point on the quilt. I absolutely haven't considered one as I'd imagined they'd be miles less efficient - but on second thought I don't really know what efficient looks like in a sleeping bag! I'm an all-season tourer on the heavyweight bike, but used to stuff my back with surplus clothes for extra warmth which is a privileged I don't imagine I'll have with the bike packing!

[whitestone]

Easy to tell with the sheep, the Yorkshire ones go "Baa" nervously

The Numo doesn't have any internal insulation so when the ground is cold you'll feel it. Standard responses on here are the Exped Synmat range or the Thermarest NeoAir. Be warned they can cost as much as a sleeping bag!

These days sleeping bag manufacturers give ratings according to EN13537 (actually it's been updated to EN23537), the two values you are interested in are "comfort" if you are a cold sleeper and "limit" if you are a warm sleeper. Your Aerolite is a synthetic fill so bulkier and/or heavier for the same warmth as down (generally). Also synthetic insulation breaks down over time so a zero rated bag in five years' time will be more like 5C or worse rated depending on use and care. If you take care of down kit, not too hard to do, then it'll last much, much longer than that. There's no equivalent standard for quilts but the manufacturers seem to have gone along the lines of: there's X amount of loft in a sleeping bag rated to xC so you'll get similar from a quilt with the same amount of loft. It's actually the amount of loft that provides the insulation, the fill is just how you get there.

The better manufacturers do tend to be reasonably accurate (IME) with these ratings whether it's bag or quilt.

[Mythste]

Thanks for such a comprehensive reply!

I've done some research into mats, and nearly pulled the trigger on one of the thermarest pads a while ago but the cold seems to always be on my top side, not from the floor. So long term, yes, I agree a higher quality mat makes sense, in the meantime, I just want to get the chill off my hips/butt! I'll happily camp out ~5 degrees when I know I've got clothes to pad out the sleeping situation. I'm trying to mitigate the need for clothes padding with a better bag if possible.

I had never heard that synthetic might break down, it is probably 5 years old and I must confess to perhaps not have been as kind to it as I should have in the early days.

[Jurassic]

Do you have an old closed cell camping mat? If so you could try taking that with you and putting it under your Numo to eliminate the possibility that your mat is the issue. I've heard on here and from a friend who has one that Numo's are notoriously cold. I have a Thermarest NeoAirXlite which is good down to low single digit temperatures and if it's really cold I have an Exped Synmat 7 but that's a lot more bulky. No help in choosing a new bag I know but it would be a way of narrowing down what the problem is. FWIW I think you should be able to get more than five years out of a synthetic bag but it obviously depends on how much use it's had.

[Bearlegged]

I went from a Numo to an Exped Synmat, it's made a very significant increase in warmth for me. Given your height, you should be able to pick up one of the M sized mats for ~£70 if you keep an eye open for special offers.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I had never heard that synthetic might break down

Depending on how it's stored / used, it can be as little as 3 years.

[Mythste]

I went from a Numo to an Exped Synmat, it's made a very significant increase in warmth for me. Given your height, you should be able to pick up one of the M sized mats for ~£70 if you keep an eye open for special offers.

I really want to believe a new mat will make a bunch of difference, but I feel the cold from my "top side", whichever side that may be!

I guess warmth comes from all angles and I'll have more warmth to lose with a better insulated mat? The numo is the most comfortable mat I've ever had though...

[benconnolli]

...turned out to be driving rain, 2 metre visibility, and howling winds all night.

Fortunately, It was about 10 degrees which I consider quite toasty in any normal situation, but I really struggled to keep warm around my hips and waist. My current bag is a Blacks Aerolight 1000, which has served me well for a good few years ...

So am I right in assuming that you have used that sleeping bag in similar temperatures and not struggled to keep warm? So either the bag has been significantly damaged since you last used it or there is some other contributing factor to why you were cold as the tent should not have any significant impact. Was it stored for a long time possibly compressed or a risk of damp?

A decent sleeping bag is a worthwhile investment, but if the way you store it results in it only lasting a year or two then suddenly that becomes rather expensive. I'm sorry if these questions seem obvious. I just hope to solve what your actual problem is, rather than replace it.

[Mythste]

...turned out to be driving rain, 2 metre visibility, and howling winds all night.

Fortunately, It was about 10 degrees which I consider quite toasty in any normal situation, but I really struggled to keep warm around my hips and waist. My current bag is a Blacks Aerolight 1000, which has served me well for a good few years ...

So am I right in assuming that you have used that sleeping bag in similar temperatures and not struggled to keep warm? So either the bag has been significantly damaged since you last used it or there is some other contributing factor to why you were cold as the tent should not have any significant impact. Was it stored for a long time possibly compressed or a risk of damp?

A decent sleeping bag is a worthwhile investment, but if the way you store it results in it only lasting a year or two then suddenly that becomes rather expensive. I'm sorry if these questions seem obvious. I just hope to solve what your actual problem is, rather than replace it.

Fair question! I’ve never been particularly warm in this bag and it’s always been chilly around the waist. Ultimately The older I get, the less financial pressure I’m under to "just f’ing deal with it"

That doesn’t mean I’m going to throw money at the situation willy nilly, just that I’m ready to invest in something for the mid-long term :)

[JohnClimber]

Just gone (for the summer) from an exped to a Numo and as you say it's the comfiest mattress that I have found out there, I got it for the deeper side tubes which help a lot finding a comfortable spot.

I feel the cold but also use quilts, personally I wouldn't go down to the 150 myself.

I've the 250 as my summer bag and I sleep in a down jacket if needed.
I have the 450 for Autumn and Spring and use the 250 over this in the winter as well as use a down hat.

[Chew]

Often budget isn’t the right way to go, as it can often be be the case of buy cheap, buy twice.

Most people will go with some kind of exped, cumulus combo.
Not too expensive up front, and if we’ve all come to that conclusion there must be something in in

Also, if after a year, if you don’t like it, I’d imagine it’s easy to sell on for a good percentage of the original cost.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I think the way to view the purchase of a sleeping bag is as an 'investment'. If cared for (not pampered, just not abused) a quality down bag will last years. Divide the number of nights use by the cost and the numbers usually make a lot of sense.

With regard to mats - you don't always feel the cold through an uninsulated mat, you just can't get warm. The ground will do its very best to draw your heat through the mat and it will do so until you're both at the same temperature. Obviously that's going to take quite some time Buying a decent / warm bag without using an insulated mat is largely a pointless exercise and much of the bags potential will be lost.

[whitestone]

I think there's a place for "budget" gear - it's a relatively cheap way of finding out what works for you and what doesn't but as Chew hints at selling on such items tends not to be easy. The cheapest in the long term is to learn from other people's mistakes

As Stu says, a sleeping bag/quilt is an investment. After all you'll spend a quarter to a third of your time on a typical trip in it, why compromise? That doesn't necessarily mean expensive but sometimes things just "cost". I paid £120 four years ago for my Cumulus quilt, I've used it for almost the same number of nights so its cost is currently £1/night. Since I bought it I've met a few on here and noticed they also have that quilt (or the next one up like John), it does seem to be part of "the uniform"

Looking after kit doesn't mean treating it with cotton wool gloves like it's a Ming dynasty vase, it's a case of putting things on the ground rather than dropping them or throwing them, airing them out when they get wet rather than leaving them compressed in bags, etc. I can be hard on gear, just through a lot of use more than anything else, so anything that lasts tends to be good quality.

It might be worth signing up for the WRT when/if it happens, most folk would be happy to go over their kit with you so you get a chance to see it in real life.

[Huwblut]

I see Cumulous do a ‘Comforter’. Does anyone have a view on these vs quilts?

http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/uk/categ ... d=54&vid=7

[whitestone]

I see Cumulous do a ‘Comforter’. Does anyone have a view on these vs quilts?

http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/uk/categ ... d=54&vid=7

Looks like their comforters are rectangular whereas their current range of quilts taper in the lower half so a bit like rectangular vs mummy shaped sleeping bags. The quilts also have a baffle to cover the hole at the bottom formed by the draw cord - the older model of quilts had a sewn-in footbox - whereas the comforters do not.

[Huwblut]

Perhaps a little chilly for the winter but a comforter soundS ideal for the current weather. Phew!