Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

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RIP
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by RIP »

Well if they didn't dream it up I reckon you've just made your fortune :smile: . Great line.
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firestarter
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by firestarter »

I went into my local one yesterday as it happens and it's hard to find a shop like it, I looked at the tents then went to the fishing section where the lad down there told me loads of helpful info as my lad is just starting out and even tied me a few rigs (I didnt know what they were let alone how to tie one)

This is the same store where the lady on bikes is very keen and knowledgeable and helps out out the local trail centre and travels all over to ride , last time we chatted she was telling me about her last Whistler trip

And where when I was trying to get my funny shaped feet into new walking boots after much faffing the lad on boots said I'd suggest altberg for your feet I ended up being measured up properly and got a pair and they are great

I dont know if this is usual of staff but if not this store must be very very lucky but I for one am glad they appear to be safe , the lad yesterday said they were worried for the future of the store, hopefully that's sorted now
rudedog
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by rudedog »

Lazarus wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:25 am I genuinely found it wierd when they were asking me where i lived - i was saying i just want to buy these things from you now do you want my money or not?

They did not is the answer to that one.

The other broad point is that actualshops cannotcompete with online shops as the overheads are so much higher and most peoplewill make a price based decision on what and where to buy
The joining thing your talking about is for their discount card scheme surely? You can still walk into a store and buy things from them without the discount card.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by faustus »

Now saved from administration, bought back by JD sports so they can restructure the finances!
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by wriggles »

faustus wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:59 am Now saved from administration, bought back by JD sports so they can restructure the finances!
How does that work?
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by Lazarus »

You can still walk into a store and buy things from them without the discount card.
You can but the price differential is so high that the card pice will make your purchase cheaper and then they ask for your address
So yes you can purchase things at a higher priceif you dont want to tell them where you live.

Its just seemed a weird busines smodel to me and I dont know any other store that operates like this
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faustus
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by faustus »

wriggles wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:26 am
faustus wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:59 am Now saved from administration, bought back by JD sports so they can restructure the finances!
How does that work?
Not really sure, but it seems like a way of forcing money savings like rent cuts and other financial structuring:

https://news.sky.com/story/jd-sports-bu ... n-12013411
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PaulB2
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by PaulB2 »

It's the new wonderful way of doing business.

As far as I understand it, you basically you buy a company by loaning the company enough money to buy itself. The company now has a whole lot of debt and one (two really since you have to include HMRC) secured creditor, the parent holding company. If business goes sour then you give one of the big accounting firms a bung to facilitate taking the company through a bankruptcy procedure where by they pay any money owed to HMRC and then 'sell' the assets and secured debt onto the secured creditor, ie the holding company. Any unsecured debt and contracts belonged to the old company which is now bankrupt so those people get shafted. The holding company then creates a new company, often with a subtly different name, with the assets and debt but gets to renegotiate all lease and supply contracts. As long as HMRC gets their wedge it's all completely legal and above board.
ScotRoutes
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by ScotRoutes »

The deal seems mainly aimed at reducing rental costs. A "new" company is able to go back to the landlords without the binding contract of the old one and negotiate a better deal. Faced with the prospect of no rental income while the shop sits empty, this is often snapped up.

Looks like staff will be transferred over (TUPE?) and existing customers orders fulfilled.
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thenorthwind
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by thenorthwind »

Lazarus wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:34 am
You can still walk into a store and buy things from them without the discount card.
You can but the price differential is so high that the card pice will make your purchase cheaper and then they ask for your address
So yes you can purchase things at a higher priceif you dont want to tell them where you live.

Its just seemed a weird busines smodel to me and I dont know any other store that operates like this
Yeah, always struck me as a funny model. I guess they've decided that the loyalty it drives in some people ("well we've got the card now so we might as well buy it from there") offsets any people who are put off. And obviously your info is valuable too - I used to get a flyer from them in the post regularly... don't really like that sort of marketing, but I'd always have a flick through in case there was a good deal on something I wanted :roll:

If it works that well though, why is no-one else doing it? The fact they've just (albeit briefly) gone into administration suggests it's not working that well.

It annoys me too when shops ask for your details. I put up with it in Screwfix and Toolstation, where having purchases linked to my account is kinda handy, and I get that it comes from when they were largely suppliers to the trade, who would have credit accounts. But I try to avoid Axminster (though largely because it always results in me spending too much money) so I don't have to go through the same charade every time:
Me: "I'd like to buy this please"
Cashier: "What's your postcode?"
Me: "Do you need to know that?"
Cashier: [offended/confused look, as if they go around telling everyone they meet their address] "No"
Me: "Then I'll just give you my money and take my goods" :roll:
ScotRoutes
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by ScotRoutes »

I don't understand the reticence to "pay" the £5 in order to save more than that*. GO also price-match so a bit of savvy Googling should result in no penalty.

*and it's not like it's compulsory.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by RIP »

PaulB2 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:52 am It's the new wonderful way of doing business.

As far as I understand it....
Spot on. But rather than new, it's been going on for centuries :| .

The litany of dodgy debt takeovers include some of our most successful companies... HMV... Cook.. Cadbury.. GKN... Debenhams.. House Fraser... good old Sturmey... (slightly different but..) ..

£600bn corporate debt before the current problem, and crises are what the vultures love best...

"In a recent study, 24 Irish subsidiaries of so-called vulture funds had paid less than €20,000 in corporation tax over the previous two years.

This is despite the companies controlling almost €20 billion in distressed assets.

That analysis found that the 24 companies, as well as their Irish subsidiaries, will be able to make profits of 33% to 50% on their initial investment".

Trebles all round.
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Jurassic
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by Jurassic »

ScotRoutes wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:04 am I don't understand the reticence to "pay" the £5 in order to save more than that*. GO also price-match so a bit of savvy Googling should result in no penalty.

*and it's not like it's compulsory.
Yeah, it doesn't bother me either. You make up the cost of the discount card in a couple of purchases in my experience. They also offer further discounts for members of certain other organisations on top of that, for instance members of the Camping and Caravan Club (or whatever it's called now) get 10% off non sale items. GO's not my favourite place to shop for outdoorsy stuff but I have found it handy when I've needed stuff at short notice or wanted to try clothing on.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by jameso »

PaulB2 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:52 am It's the new wonderful way of doing business.

As far as I understand it, you basically you buy a company by loaning the company enough money to buy itself. The company now has a whole lot of debt and one (two really since you have to include HMRC) secured creditor, the parent holding company. If business goes sour then you give one of the big accounting firms a bung to facilitate taking the company through a bankruptcy procedure where by they pay any money owed to HMRC and then 'sell' the assets and secured debt onto the secured creditor, ie the holding company. Any unsecured debt and contracts belonged to the old company which is now bankrupt so those people get shafted. The holding company then creates a new company, often with a subtly different name, with the assets and debt but gets to renegotiate all lease and supply contracts. As long as HMRC gets their wedge it's all completely legal and above board.
I wonder how creditors ie own brand factories are dealt with in this case, I work with one of them in Asia. Much will depend on whether they want a continuing relationship I expect.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by Lazarus »

I don't understand the reticence to "pay" the £5 in order to save more than that*
the reticence is to give them my personal details to buy things off them - i would have bought the card i was not prepared to say where i lived simply to buy things as that is not how shopping works.
how it works is i pick something i pay i leave- then again when you buy online you have to give this info so perhaps its a pointless distincton to make.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by wriggles »

PaulB2 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:52 am It's the new wonderful way of doing business.

As far as I understand it, you basically you buy a company by loaning the company enough money to buy itself. The company now has a whole lot of debt and one (two really since you have to include HMRC) secured creditor, the parent holding company. If business goes sour then you give one of the big accounting firms a bung to facilitate taking the company through a bankruptcy procedure where by they pay any money owed to HMRC and then 'sell' the assets and secured debt onto the secured creditor, ie the holding company. Any unsecured debt and contracts belonged to the old company which is now bankrupt so those people get shafted. The holding company then creates a new company, often with a subtly different name, with the assets and debt but gets to renegotiate all lease and supply contracts. As long as HMRC gets their wedge it's all completely legal and above board.
Ah right cheers. I understood the buying the company and transfering the debt bit. Its how Paternoster (later Kingfisher) took over Woolworths in the 80s, and then sold all the owned prime city centre sites. Think has also happened to Evans Cycles twice now? Just didnt realise a company could do it to themselves, but with the aim of reducing rents makes perfect sense.

Lack of rent flexibility seems to be one of the major reasons for retail failures at the moment with the resulting job losses so I am not sure if I am too upset if the only people that suffer in this case are the landlords. Obviously with ***** like Astley being one of the worst complainers I never know whether to believe it, but certainly John Lewis, my old company, are struggling to deal with excessive historic rent agreements ethically.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by ScotRoutes »

when you buy online you have to give this info so perhaps its a pointless distincton to make
.

Aye, that's a good point. :grin:
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by Jurassic »

I know everyone is trying to make a living but the excessive rent thing seems crazy. With the rise in online shopping you'd think landlords would be desperate to keep businesses in their properties not force them out (or out of business) with high rents. My buddy has the bike shop in the town I live in and he was in his previous property for ages (15 plus years). His landlord died and the property came under the control of the landlord's son who put the rent up massively. My mate tried to reason with the guy but he just said that his dad had been charging well below market value (which was true) and refused to budge at all. The result of this was that my friend moved his business to another shop in a better location in town (which he rented initially but has now bought). The other shop has been empty ever since (along with a lot of other shops in our town) and the landlord has been getting no rent in the intervening years with no prospect of getting a new tenant.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by Lazarus »

yes the rent and rates things is a big killer for the high street
its much cheaper to have an out of town warehouse and just sell on line
as people largely make price based decisions the cheapest wins.

the high street is going to change massively over the next 20 years and i doubt there will be much left but food and clothes shops in the long run
I use the local camping shop as its an independent retailer - its not cheap but if i want o tto be ther ei need to spend there or it will close

My mate used to run a bike shop - he bough ALL his parts online as it was cheaper than going to madison/wholesale for them !
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by jameso »

Think has also happened to Evans Cycles twice now?
Once, the fairly recent pre-pack administration sale to SD.
the high street is going to change massively over the next 20 years and i doubt there will be much left but food and clothes shops in the long run
And with some luck, bike/e-bike sales and bike servicing. Maybe not premium high street locations but bike shop are one area of high-value retail where you can't do it all online. Or, it's difficult (with the margins available) to be both competitive online and offer great service.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by wriggles »

jameso wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:17 pm
Think has also happened to Evans Cycles twice now?
Once, the fairly recent pre-pack administration sale to SD.
Wasnt the previous purchase something similar as well i.e Buy company and load it with the purchase cost as debt?
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by sean_iow »

Lazarus wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:36 am the reticence is to give them my personal details to buy things off them - i would have bought the card i was not prepared to say where i lived simply to buy things as that is not how shopping works.
how it works is i pick something i pay i leave- then again when you buy online you have to give this info so perhaps its a pointless distincton to make.
I always thought the loyalty card thing also had some bearing with the agreement with their suppliers but that's purely supposition on may part. They are not the only store that did it, didn't you used to need a card to shop at Matalan? I assumed it was like cash-and-carry where they were selling stuff at wholesale price from a retail outlet?

I've found that if you spend over about £50 the cost of the card plus the item is still less than buying it without the card.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by PaulE »

Lazarus wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:36 am
I don't understand the reticence to "pay" the £5 in order to save more than that*
the reticence is to give them my personal details to buy things off them - i would have bought the card i was not prepared to say where i lived simply to buy things as that is not how shopping works.
how it works is i pick something i pay i leave- then again when you buy online you have to give this info so perhaps its a pointless distincton to make.
Can't you just give a made up address?
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by jameso »

Wasnt the previous purchase something similar as well i.e Buy company and load it with the purchase cost as debt?
Yes, sorry - the debt bit or the administration, wasn't sure. Still once in each case effectively. The purchaser before SD bought it with std PE methods I think, debt was put against the co but it was sold to the PE group as a profitable, trading company. If SD have the purchase price against the business as debt it wouldn't make a lot of difference, they got it for very, very little compared to prev exchanges.
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Re: Go Outdoors set to go in to administration

Post by PaulB2 »

jameso wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:30 am
PaulB2 wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:52 am It's the new wonderful way of doing business.

snip
I wonder how creditors ie own brand factories are dealt with in this case, I work with one of them in Asia. Much will depend on whether they want a continuing relationship I expect.
It's probably going to depend on how long the supply pipeline is and what the payment terms are - if you've not been paid yet but you've already shipped several containers of stuff and have another warehouse of be-logoed stock waiting to be shipped then you're more likely to continue the relationship. You'd know more than me, since I'm just guessing really, how these things work.
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