When?????

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jamiep
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Re: When?????

Post by jamiep » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:38 pm

jamiep wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:32 pm
restlessshawn wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:26 pm
So does that mean July 3rd wild camping is ok (Scotland)?
That's how I've read it (if also maintaining distancing and hygiene measures)
I see TJ is having a massive tantrum about this on the STW thread, and is being aggressively rude so I'm not interested in getting involved.

Does anyone disagree with my previous interpretation that wild camping will be ok in Scotland on 3rd? Based on: “Self-catering accommodation and second homes (without shared facilities) permitted". I interpreted wild camping being included in that.

It's fine to disagree, and I dont wish to argue with anyone. Indeed, I would accept I was wrong and not go if it was explained why I was.

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voodoo_simon
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Re: When?????

Post by voodoo_simon » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:57 pm

Jamie, I’d say whenever the campsites are open, we’re good to go. If that’s the 3rd, then that’s the green light.

Of course, i won’t judge anyone who ventures out before then :lol:

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ScotRoutes
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Re: When?????

Post by ScotRoutes » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:24 pm

The only difference between the 3rd and 15th is that the former restricts opening to accommodations that do not require shared facilities. Many sites won't be opening on 3rd but those that do will require caravans. motorhomes and campervans to be "self-contained".

I reckon that wild-camping doesn't have any shared facilties so I can't see that it's not allowed.

But then, as I've already said, there is currently no restriction on camping as laid out by the legislation and the guidance published at www.gov.scot

Edit: Missed this bit..

Can I go wild camping?
Not yet. In Phase 2 we are still requiring people to stay at home, except for limited purposes. In Phase 3 we hope to be able to be able to allow leisure travel and tourism activities, including wild camping.
Published on 18th June. (the day I got back from my last BAM)
Last edited by ScotRoutes on Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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summittoppler
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Re: When?????

Post by summittoppler » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:37 pm

Odd how some are debating when its OK to get back out doing what we love doing and then in the BAM 2020 thread, there's folk posting their camps/bivvies...

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RIP
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Re: When?????

Post by RIP » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:50 pm

Presumably those "doing" aren't also "debating" - mutually exclusive :smile: .
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

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Chew
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Re: When?????

Post by Chew » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:04 pm

Isnt the counter question what happens on a certain date?

The virus doesn’t change

jamiep
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Re: When?????

Post by jamiep » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:07 pm

someone's just shared a link on STW, which I find helpful. I now wont be camping on 3rd but in phase 3

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coron ... d-leisure/
"Can I go wild camping?
Not yet. In Phase 2 we are still requiring people to stay at home, except for limited purposes. In Phase 3 we hope to be able to be able to allow leisure travel and tourism activities, including wild camping."

edit: Colin's already posted it

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JohnClimber
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Re: When?????

Post by JohnClimber » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:41 pm

jamiep wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:38 pm
I see TJ is having a massive tantrum about this on the STW thread, and is being aggressively rude so I'm not interested in getting involved.
I've not been on that forum for age's... now I know why... I'll never get that 10 minutes of my life back now :???:

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thenorthwind
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Re: When?????

Post by thenorthwind » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:59 pm

JohnClimber wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:41 pm
I've not been on that forum for age's... now I know why... I'll never get that 10 minutes of my life back now :???:
You don't have to read the arguments you know! :wink:

Cheeky Monkey
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Re: When?????

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:05 pm

JohnClimber wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:41 pm
jamiep wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:38 pm
I see TJ is having a massive tantrum about this on the STW thread, and is being aggressively rude so I'm not interested in getting involved.
I've not been on that forum for age's... now I know why... I'll never get that 10 minutes of my life back now :???:
It really is a funny old place sometimes :roll:

redefined_cycles
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Re: When?????

Post by redefined_cycles » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:40 pm

voodoo_simon wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:57 pm
i won’t judge anyone who ventures out before then :lol:
Well said that :-bd

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In Reverse
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Re: When?????

Post by In Reverse » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:03 am

Chew wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:04 pm
Isnt the counter question what happens on a certain date?

The virus doesn’t change
The risk of transmission of the virus in a population changes according to prevalence though. So a health minister could say "the risk will be low enough to allow us to open pubs once prevalence is below 0.01%" If prevalence is currently 0.05% and reducing at 25% per week then you can calculate when your risk threshold will be reached.

Made up numbers but you get the idea.

Lazarus
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Re: When?????

Post by Lazarus » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:45 pm

radio 4 today - missed their name so possibly just a reporter about 1:15 was saying about the leiecester outbreak that it was impossible to prove this had happened by the released stats [ he had tried and failed a syou noted earlier when providing them] and the govt hads additional [not published] ones that were released to the council who have released them - apparently their data is basically hospital and healthcare staf only and does not include " private " tests [ they did not explain what this was]
Head of nuffield has complained the data is too poor to allow analysis - though I found nothing on a google search regarding this
Either way I would say its reasonable to debate whether lockdow easing caused this , though where they caught them will remain unknown - ie inside or outside organised event or unorganised.

I would personally take a bunch of stats that refuse to publicise numbers tested with apinch of salt
Oh and last week they said[ Hancock iirc] 15 died in the UK to the select committee for PHE to release the figure of 20 dead in england during the hearing - its up to you how much faith you want to put on their data but they dont seem to agree with themselves or be on top of the issue

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In Reverse
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Re: When?????

Post by In Reverse » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:30 pm

Was that directed at me John? Im not sure I follow your point - are you looking for stats for the Leicester outbreak?

Chew
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Re: When?????

Post by Chew » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:55 pm

Made up numbers but you get the idea.
Yeah, certainly and I think I’m on the same page as you Andy.

My point was more that the risks doesn’t really change at midnight on the 3rd of July.
It’s more a case of looking at the risks and going from there, rather than trying to find a proxy to say it’s ok to do something.

Pubs may be opening at the weekend, but just because you can doesn’t always mean you should.
Now, I’ll probably be at the pub at some point that week, but somewhere with a beer garden, and not inside due to the relevant risks.
Saves me drinking special brew in the park with the other tramps :lol:


The prevalence numbers are a very woolly measure due to the way that the data is collected at a regional level.
There will be local lockdowns where things flare up, and fingers crossed things improve before we get back into winter, where mortality naturally increases.

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In Reverse
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Re: When?????

Post by In Reverse » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:03 pm

Chew wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:55 pm

My point was more that the risks doesn’t really change at midnight on the 3rd of July.
It’s more a case of looking at the risks and going from there, rather than trying to find a proxy to say it’s ok to do something.
Yep, I got that and completely agree.

I think most people are capable of assessing risks for themselves and acting accordingly and I suspect if not most then certainly a large cohort will think the same as you about going to/being inside the pub over the next week or two.

boxelder
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Re: When?????

Post by boxelder » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:05 pm

https://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk ... -district/
Good to see the Police marshalling agencies to combat c0ck (not wild) camping in the Lakes. The Police here have done a great job.

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Borderer
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Re: When?????

Post by Borderer » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:34 pm

Ok so we can now travel more than 5 miles in Scotland for leisure and are free to visit the hills. Wild camping is still not permitted though and this is not thought to be allowed until the 15th of July at the earliest.

https://www.facebook.com/scottishmounta ... =3&theater

There has been a localised outbreak just north of the border that is believed to have spread over from Carlisle. This impacts the SE corner of Dumfries and Galloway and extends from Dalbeatie as far east as Langholm and north up to Eskdalemuir. This area still has the 5 mile restriction.

Image

This has put paid to my plans to ride south across the border for a wee night out, but I would prefer to wait than put anyone at risk.

Please don't come to Scotland just now. We are doing really well at containing Covid and would like it to stay that way.

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In Reverse
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Re: When?????

Post by In Reverse » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:08 pm

Borderer wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:34 pm

Please don't come to Scotland just now. We are doing really well at containing Covid and would like it to stay that way.
Should we mention at this point that Scotland has a higher infection rate than England? :wink:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/?_ga=2. ... 1585775630

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Borderer
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Re: When?????

Post by Borderer » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:44 pm

Oh really? You want to start that argument? You seriously think the UK govt are giving accurate information re England?

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ScotRoutes
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Re: When?????

Post by ScotRoutes » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:56 pm

In Reverse wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:08 pm
Borderer wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:34 pm

Please don't come to Scotland just now. We are doing really well at containing Covid and would like it to stay that way.
Should we mention at this point that Scotland has a higher infection rate than England? :wink:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/?_ga=2. ... 1585775630

Given the difference in death rate, that must mean that hospital care in Scotland is massively better than elsewhere.

jobro
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Re: When?????

Post by jobro » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:02 pm

Given the difference in death rate, that must mean that hospital care in Scotland is massively better than elsewhere.
Touche'

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Borderer
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Re: When?????

Post by Borderer » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:13 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:56 pm
In Reverse wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:08 pm
Borderer wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:34 pm

Please don't come to Scotland just now. We are doing really well at containing Covid and would like it to stay that way.
Should we mention at this point that Scotland has a higher infection rate than England? :wink:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/?_ga=2. ... 1585775630

Given the difference in death rate, that must mean that hospital care in Scotland is massively better than elsewhere.
Scotland's death rate is actually lower now than in the same week of the previous five years. There was one Covid death in Scotland yesterday. England had 50. Scotland has less than a tenth of the population of England, therefore if our death rate was in sync with England's we would have had 5 deaths yesterday. This wasn't a statistical aberration - this happens day after day. The data relating to 'cases' is meaningless unless all four nations apply the same criteria, which they don't. Death rates are harder to fiddle (though there is ample evidence that has been happening south of the border) and speak for themselves.

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In Reverse
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Re: When?????

Post by In Reverse » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:20 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:56 pm
In Reverse wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:08 pm
Borderer wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:34 pm

Please don't come to Scotland just now. We are doing really well at containing Covid and would like it to stay that way.
Should we mention at this point that Scotland has a higher infection rate than England? :wink:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/?_ga=2. ... 1585775630

Given the difference in death rate, that must mean that hospital care in Scotland is massively better than elsewhere.
I'm not sure that's true tbh :lol:

The lower percentage of BAME population and the fact that Scotland just has less old people due to overall ill-health (the average Scotch bloke is already dead before making it into the highest risk demographic by age) are more likely to be contributing factors I suspect.

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In Reverse
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Re: When?????

Post by In Reverse » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:24 pm

Borderer wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:44 pm
Oh really? You want to start that argument? You seriously think the UK govt are giving accurate information re England?
Not wanting to start an argument at all. :grin:

If you've got some numbers showing actual cases vs what's reported then I'd be more than happy to have a look. I'm always open to data :-bd

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