Spokes

[BigdummySteve]

I’ve a very nice Onyx hub to build up, I’m going to rebuild my WTB Ci31 carbon rim onto it with new spokes, first question is which spokes sapim cx rays? Are they worth the extra for fatigue life? Any others to recommend?

The other is length
The calculator puts them at 261.1 left and 259.7 right
I’m assuming that 260mm would suit if I can’t get 261 ?

[Lazarus]

I hav certainly built wheels with spokes that far out - tensioning is harder as the inital tension - if all spokes are done to the same tightness with say a spoke tool - is unequal [drive v non drive] so its more of a pain to tension properly

IMHO /IME there is very little difference with spokes every set i have used different spokes including re using and i have not snapped a spoke on a wheel for years

I have uses Sapim, Haro, DT competiton and some from a wheel

[sean_iow]

With those figures I'd use 260 and 262 if I could only get even length spokes. I think the new version of the Wheelpro spoke calc says always to round up?

[BigdummySteve]

If I use an adjustable nipple driver adjusted to compensate for the difference in ideal spoke length , do think I stand a chance without a dishing gauge?

[FLV]

Do you use a stand? Just dish by flipping the wheel round. Personally I'd use 260 both sides on that, with 14mm Sapim nipples. If you're a light fella or using a very stiff rim I'd use Sapim d-lights. Otherwise I would use Sapim Race.

I've never used CX Rays so cant pass comment really

Edit: Brass Nips too.

[sean_iow]

A tiny change in spoke length makes a big difference to dish due to the angle but you can make a dishing gauge easily. It doesn't have to measure anything absolute only enable you to measure the difference between sides.

If you have 2 bits of wood the same thickness and they are thicker than the distance from the rim to the furthest projection of the hub you can improvise. Just put them on a flat surface, rest the rim laid flat, resting on the wood at two points opposite each other. Measure from the surface up to the hub, flip the wheel over and take the same measurement and it will show which way to move the rim.

Or just put it on the bike, measure to the frame/fork from the rim. Turn the wheel over and repeat to the same part of the frame/fork and it will show which way the rim needs to move.

[Bearlegged]

I'd go 260mm for both sides with those measurements.

[Asposium]

I seem to recall a cx ray spoke is merely a laser spoke that has been squashed to make it more aero.

Have straight pull laser spokes on three pairs of wheels; have been fine.

[BigdummySteve]

I seem to recall a cx ray spoke is merely a laser spoke that has been squashed to make it more aero.

Have straight pull laser spokes on three pairs of wheels; have been fine.

Yes, the forging apparently makes the spokes much tougher, the other advantage is it’s easy to avoid spoke windup. That said I’ve never broken a spoke in my life and a bit of tape on each spoke is cheap.
It’s such a nice hub and rim I want to treat them! But obviously I don’t want to waste cash when there is no benefit.

[Lazarus]

think I stand a chance without a dishing gauge?

yes i do -now you want to know whether its good one or a bad one
as above easy enough to make one or improvise in a fork leg with a cable tie

I did one out of cardboard as per the Munsoon book

[BigdummySteve]

think I stand a chance without a dishing gauge?

yes i do -now you want to know whether its good one or a bad one
as above easy enough to make one or improvise in a fork leg with a cable tie

I did one out of cardboard as per the Munsoon book

DIY it is

[slarge]

why is it so difficult to get the dishing correct? Don't you just wind the nipple on and then adjust until the dish is correct?

(I've never built a wheel)

[whitestone]

why is it so difficult to get the dishing correct? Don't you just wind the nipple on and then adjust until the dish is correct?

(I've never built a wheel)

The wheel needs to be centred between the dropouts but on a rear wheel in particular the freehub body means that the drive side spokes are shorter and at a steeper angle than those on the non-drive side so you need to take a bit of care since doing it by eye can throw things out. If the wheel is off-centre then the bike will "crab" rather than ride in a straight line.

[Lazarus]

three issues

1 _ dish - is it in the middle of the hub
2. Is it round
3. Does it wobble or is is "true"
{there are technical terms I have ommitted for ease]

Building a wheel requires all three to be true and 2 and 3 wont achieve 1

Everyone trues to one side and if this is wrong [ ie not in the middle] then the dish will be wrong

[BenS]

I used some pillar spokes from aliexpress that are very similar to the cx-ray
http://s.aliexpress.com/JN3ueYzY

They were fine to build with but you’ll need a bladed spoke holder to get them straight without marking them. Using them scratched an itch I had but I have since defaulted to sapim d-light spokes since then because they’re almost as light, stronger (I believe) and cheaper!

[AlexGold]

It might depend on the calculator, but I'd not even think about using 260 if the calculator I use ( https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/ ) said 261.1 . I'd do 260/262 if you're buying spokes that sell in even numbers, 261/263 in odd. You'd get away with all 261 or 262

Longer nipples aren't a solution as they have the same amount of threads internally, the longer nipple is just to make it easier to get a wrench on it in a deeper rim.

[Lazarus]

They may have the same number of threads[ spokes thread all the way through so this is immaterial] but 14mm spokes are still 2mm closer to the spoke than 12 mm

every spoke calculator i have used changes the length of the spoke required if you fit longer nipples

[AlexGold]

They may have the same number of threads[ spokes thread all the way through so this is immaterial] but 14mm spokes are still 2mm closer to the spoke than 12 mm

Double checking, you're right re DT Swiss nipples, the 14mm has 1mm more thread than the 12mm and the 16mm has 2mm more. The Sapim nipples have the same thread with extra non-threaded length on the spoke end, so it's when using those that more care needs to be taken with the measurements. I'd still rather buy/use the right spokes and nipples than try to bodge it with longer nipples though.

See attached pic of DT 12, 14, and 16mm nipples (ruler is in mm)

[Lazarus]

and yet another area with no standard - cheers for that I had assumed all were longer and it was news to me.

[BigdummySteve]

I found another stockist who do both 260 and 261 in the spokes I want, happy days