Ti repair - Picture added :)

[rufus748]

Not a great day. Just found a crack in the top tube of my Kinesis ATR
No idea how it got there, is it repairable? How visible would the repair be? (If indeed it cn be repaired). Not an ideal time to be buying a new frame....

[pistonbroke]

Sorry for the obvious reply but do you not have any warranty redress? I've had a quick look at their terms and if the bike is prior to 1/1/2019 it's 3 years and post its 5 years. I'm on my 3rd Van Nicholas frame thanks to their lifetime warranty and being the original owner. Even if you bought it second hand, they may be able to do something about fixing it. There was also a Stooge frame that was donated to Shafiqs charity that had a repair on the chainstay before being auctioned, not sure where it was done but it looked a tidy job. I can't judge if the crack is terminal, sorry.

[Lazarus]

I'm on my 3rd Van Nicholas frame

This hardly reassures me about titanium or their frames

I am of the opinion any metal can be repaired [ could replace the whole tube for example] the real question is how easily, how much and how pretty it will look afterwards

[ScotRoutes]

I'm on my 3rd Van Nicholas frame

This hardly reassures me about titanium or their frames

I'm still on my first Van Nicholas frame It's only 12 years old though so no idea if it's about to go bang.

[Asposium]

When I broke the frame of my Specialized sequoia I was informed by the bike shop that Argos could repair the frame; however, the cost would be silly

Specialized would have warranty replacement the frame; however, the sequoia is no longer available in the UK so offered a 35% discount on a new bike.

Hopefully a 56cm will turn on eBay at some point, seen 54 and 58, but, annoyingly, no 56cm

[pistonbroke]

This hardly reassures me about titanium or their frames

I have a theory that unless you are the lucky owner of a top end Ti frame such as a Burls or Moots which has been skillfully designed and welded by craftsmen, there is always a risk to buying a Ti frame. The welding process is much trickier as it has to be done without oxygen.
The majority of mid range Ti brands who get their frames from one of the small number of far eastern producers such as Waltly and especially those who offer an extended warranty, work on such a high mark-up that there's an acceptable failure built into the price. Having seen the cost price of both road and mtb frames when bought by the container-load, they're about a third of the retail price and that was a brand whose prices are about half that of some "boutique" brands.
Both my failures were cracks that started adjacent to a weld, hopefully it's 3rd time lucky in my case

[redefined_cycles]

This hardly reassures me about titanium or their frames

I have a theory that unless you are the lucky owner of a top end Ti frame such as a Burls or Moots which has been skillfully designed and welded by craftsmen, there is always a risk to buying a Ti frame. The welding process is much trickier as it has to be done without oxygen.
The majority of mid range Ti brands who get their frames from one of the small number of far eastern producers such as Waltly and especially those who offer an extended warranty, work on such a high mark-up that there's an acceptable failure built into the price. Having seen the cost price of both road and mtb frames when bought by the container-load, they're about a third of the retail price and that was a brand whose prices are about half that of some "boutique" brands.
Both my failures were cracks that started adjacent to a weld, hopefully it's 3rd time lucky in my case

But then doesn't that theory assume that Lynsky aren't/weren't topend (especially in the days they left Litespeed to go alone). Surely they paid plenty due attention in the build process??

Funny you mention Burls as after Colin mentioned them once in a thread I considered it (maybe in 2 years time) briefly. So you also reckon the Russians they have making their frames are paying plenty due care/attention and theres no reports of failures as we know it??

Rufus- I will try and dig out where Alasdair had his Stooge welded from. Apparently they're the people that have made Cotic in the past and ex Shand welders/welder

[ScotRoutes]

Is this where I start posting photos of broken steel, aluminium and carbon frames?

[yourguitarhero]

Gaffa tape and/or baling twine - sorted!

[redefined_cycles]

I’ll look to close the bids at 9pm on Sunday night and then post next week (as Five Land helpfully gave me a box). Also included is a spare EBB which I got for a previous frame but it’s completely unused and pristine.

For anyone unaware of Five Land’s pedigree, they’re run by an ex-Shand welder, currently build for Cotic, and have already done two Ti repairs for me on my Jones. Luckily they’re round the corner from me so I dropped it off on my daily exercise.

There it is Rufus... Fivelands is where the Stooge was repaired as per Alasdairs thread on his Ti Stooge sale...

Colin... no please don't

[Bearbonesnorm]

That's quite a bad place to crack. Yep, it could be welded but I'd suspect the crack will likely just reappear a little further on.

[pistonbroke]

Shafiq, my list of craftsman Ti builders wasn't comprehensive, I missed that Lynskey are made in Tennessee. I have a Litespeed Ti road bike of a similar vintage to Colin's Amazon and I'm fairly sure it was made in the USA before they were bought by Trek and the brand was "Sports Direct"ed and interestingly their lifetime warranty suddenly shrank to 7 years. I don't blame brands looking for low cost sources for their components, what is a bit naughty is passing off their product as "Handbuilt in the UK or USA" when what they actually mean is screwed together from components from Taiwan and Japan (and I'm definitely not saying this is a bad thing)

[ScotRoutes]

FWIW I will never buy a Lynskey made frame.

I did have one for a while and, TBF, it didn't fail on me. However, I've seen too many others that have failed or have simply been badly put together.

My el cheapo Taiwanese Ti hardtail frame is still going strong after 12-13 years. Currently doing singlespeed duties.

[redefined_cycles]

doesn't that theory assume that Lynsky aren't/weren't topend (especially in the days they left Litespeed to go alone). Surely they paid plenty due attention in the build process??

Sorry... I dont think I finished my sentence (kicks self virtually)... What I was meaning was that they were (meant to be) top but too many cracks for comfort (as per ebay reports and elsewhere

Maybe this calls for a thread of its own. Sorry Rufus for your thread taking on a new tangent

[rufus748]

Thanks everyone. Interesting debate developing
Yeah Stu in concerned about a repair bearing in mind the thickness of the top tube. Maybe it's time for a new one.
Anybody need a kidney? (Or other organ/limb subject to negotiation) One careful(ISH) owner...

[pistonbroke]

#pray for Andy

[FLV]

Is this where I start posting photos of broken steel, aluminium and carbon frames?

Like my steel one

[pistonbroke]

My el cheapo Taiwanese Ti hardtail frame is still going strong after 12-13 years.

What I was getting at is your Ti frame was probably built in the same factory as those from several brands charging 3x as much and therefore they have factored in a failure/replacement rate based on the number sold minus the number sold on where they wouldn't have to honour the warranty and the percentage of failures, it's a matter of risk and reward. The marketing bs of titanium being a bike for life is just that.

[ScotRoutes]

Yeah, it's really an Airborne.

TBH I have never seen any manufacturer claim any frame as a "frame for life" regardless of material.

[pistonbroke]

Which became Van Nicholas, sold to a multi brand parent called Accell which owns Ghost, Koga, Lapierre Raleigh. Then Jan Guillem Santnicholas left to form boutique Ti brand J Guillem whose frames are made, guess where?

[pistonbroke]

TBH I have never seen any manufacturer claim any frame as a "frame for life" regardless of material.

Fair point, they claim "endless durability" instead. I actually referred to their tagline that nothing looks, rides or lasts like titanium on an email to their warranty guys when they looked like being picky about my second failure.

https://www.vannicholas.com/

[Dave Barter]

#pray for Andy

I bet he cracked that frame shaving.

[AlasdairMc]

Not a great day. Just found a crack in the top tube of my Kinesis ATR
No idea how it got there, is it repairable? How visible would the repair be? (If indeed it cn be repaired). Not an ideal time to be buying a new frame....

I have recent experience of Ti repair - in my case down to an unfinished weld. This looks like it’s cracked for another reason though as the weld of a cable guide will be on the surface as opposed to joining two tubes together. Is the profile of the tube changing at this point?

At a guess, it could be drilled and patched, potentially with the loss of the cable guide though. A failure outside of a weld area suggests something else caused it, and there’s no guarantee it won’t happen again. If you patch it then it will end up stronger than simply stopping the crack from continuing to grow.

Five Land Bikes may repair it, but I’m relatively lucky because they’re a mile from my house so they can inspect easily enough without committing to a repair. Best drop them a line and get their views on it.

[rufus748]

Thanks, no not a profile change, just a poor picture.
I'll speak to five lanes tomorrow, and also Kinesis. I'm not the original owner so the warranty won't apply to me, maybe they'll offer me a discount on a new frame if I'm lucky...

[Jurassic]

TBH I have never seen any manufacturer claim any frame as a "frame for life" regardless of material.

From the Waltly website;
"A titanium frame can literally last the rest of your life, and longer."