'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

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slarge
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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by slarge » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:43 pm

Ian- didn’t mean to be short in my response to you, it’s just all this happened last May, so whilst interesting (and we’d all love to know whodunnit) it’s hasn’t really been talked about for getting on for a year.

By the way, I had dropped out by day 2, so it wasn’t me!😃

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Lazarus » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:52 pm

everyone is guilty until they can prove their innocence
I dont think every rider is guilty - why would anyone think that?
the reality is one is,probably, and we dont know which one[ except the person who came last cannot be it ] and we never will , the rest is just speculation.
I am not sure its that helpful tbh. His race his call.

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:18 pm

Hmmm...

Just catching up with this.

Has anyone got in touch with Poirot?

:grin: (sorry couldn't but help myself)...

NB. Sounds like a top bloke does that there Alan
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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Ian » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:29 pm

slarge wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:43 pm
Ian- didn’t mean to be short in my response to you, it’s just all this happened last May, so whilst interesting (and we’d all love to know whodunnit) it’s hasn’t really been talked about for getting on for a year.

By the way, I had dropped out by day 2, so it wasn’t me!😃
No offense taken, Steve - don't worry :wink:
Like a few others, the whole thing was news to me. I only came on this evening to hunt out a thread from a couple of week sago, and this caught my eye.
Lazarus wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:52 pm
everyone is guilty until they can prove their innocence
I dont think every rider is guilty - why would anyone think that?
the reality is one is,probably, and we dont know which one[ except the person who came last cannot be it ] and we never will , the rest is just speculation.
I am not sure its that helpful tbh. His race his call.
The absence of published times and completions for all riders affects those for whom you could be certain it wasn't them, by virtue of their position relative to the finder of said packet. Wasn't trying to be unhelpful, Jon - just my observation. Like I said on my last comment, I'm not in any way criticising Alan for making the call he did.

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Dave Barter » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:24 am

Are we sure the rider wasn't holding a kite at the time?

<niche bikepacking race humour attempt>
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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by sean_iow » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:48 am

Dave Barter wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:24 am
Are we sure the rider wasn't holding a kite at the time?

<niche bikepacking race humour attempt>
If you'd said an umbrella then it would have been more use in the conditions they had :smile:
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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by htrider » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:32 pm

It did cross my mind when Alan emailed about what had happened - "dope is the last thing you'd need in those conditions, hows about a goretex drysuit and a pair of wellies?"

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Karl » Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:32 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:52 pm
everyone is guilty until they can prove their innocence
I dont think every rider is guilty - why would anyone think that?
the reality is one is,probably, and we dont know which one[ except the person who came last cannot be it ] and we never will , the rest is just speculation.
I am not sure its that helpful tbh. His race his call.
The absence of published times and completions for all riders affects those for whom you could be certain it wasn't them, by virtue of their position relative to the finder of said packet. Wasn't trying to be unhelpful, Jon - just my observation. Like I said on my last comment, I'm not in any way criticising Alan for making the call he did.
I've been busy with work (can't complain during these strange times) so just catching up with things now. The absence of published times kind of connects all the finishers to the doping saga but publishing the results of people who were behind the rider who found the packet would be worse as it would assume guilt to everyone ahead of the rider. Alan made the right call (pains me to say it :roll: , as last year was my greatest achievement). Alan is showing the world that bikepacking races can be responsible and have ethics, and if you don't play by the rules everyone loses.

Try hard, keep it clean, be proud of what you can achieve with a bit of mental strength.

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by slarge » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:48 pm

Did you finish last year Karl? I’ve forgotten 😂

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by ScotRoutes » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:59 pm

If only someone had kept a record.... :lol:

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by ssnowman » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:12 pm

When I first read the headline for the podcast, I assumed Sofiane had been mistaken or mis-quoted. Until this, I was totally unaware of the incident.

It's such a shame that a grass roots event like this is tainted by doping :sad:
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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Karl » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:24 pm

slarge wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:48 pm
Did you finish last year Karl? I’ve forgotten 😂
Yeah but it nearly killed me 😂

postierich
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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by postierich » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:40 am

My only ever DNF from a race/event such a shame thats been erased from the record books. :-bd

I,ve used Tramadol when I had my chest cracked open to get a tumour out, I could hardly drink beer on the stuff horrible stuff :cool:

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by sean_iow » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:43 am

postierich wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:40 am
My only ever DNF from a race/event such a shame thats been erased from the record books. :-bd
The bad news is that our shame and Karl's success is recorded on trackleaders for evermore :sad:

Not that he'd let me forget his result I'm sure :wink:
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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by slarge » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:26 am

sean_iow wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:43 am
postierich wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:40 am
My only ever DNF from a race/event such a shame thats been erased from the record books. :-bd
The bad news is that our shame and Karl's success is recorded on trackleaders for evermore :sad:

Not that he'd let me forget his result I'm sure :wink:
But no one looks there Sean - it's the HT website that holds the truth, and there's no record of us dropping out, or Karl finishing. Almost like it never happened...... :-bd

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Karl » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:42 am

Does that mean the nightmares are over now? I'd be happy with that :-bd

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by htrider » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:10 pm

slarge wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:26 am
sean_iow wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:43 am
postierich wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:40 am
My only ever DNF from a race/event such a shame thats been erased from the record books. :-bd
The bad news is that our shame and Karl's success is recorded on trackleaders for evermore :sad:

Not that he'd let me forget his result I'm sure :wink:
But no one looks there Sean - it's the HT website that holds the truth, and there's no record of us dropping out, or Karl finishing. Almost like it never happened...... :-bd
What never happened?

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by sean_iow » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:48 pm

Not related to the HT550 but I'm reading a book about Flanderrs and the Classics and this made me smile, about the great Fausto Coppi

Coppi was upfront about his use of drugs, particularly "la bomba", a mix of caffeine, cola and amphetamine pills. When asked if he took drugs he replied "only when necessary", when asked when necessary was, his reply was "all the time"

I got through quite a lot of Irn Bru on the 2018 edition, I had it in one water bottle and plain water in the other. I had to throw the bottle away afterwards* as it gummed up the lid and I couldn't seem to wash it off, didn't look at the ingredients so cant say if it was the same as la bomba. I got quite a taste for it but I can only get the reduced sugar version down south so not as good :sad:

*Didn't actually throw away, it's on my bench with the top cut off to put small parts in as I take them off.
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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Adventurer » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:56 pm

No one will own up to having the Tramadol

If they did not have a prescription for it and owned up their could be legal issues of having possession of the drug.

I know in hospital it has to be kept locked behind two doors in the controlled drugs cupboard, with a single key holder and signed by two people on removal from the cupboard, administration and any left that’s not used.

Then signed by two people at start and end of shift.

So I’m not sure how this would affect someone carrying Tramadol (without a prescription) and what if any legal issues would be? Somebody better than me might know the answer?

Also, if another controlled drug was found, say morphine etc, this would have to be handed to the police as holding the drug could be a criminal offence. I’m not sure where Tramadol would fit into this?

Just as a side note, if issued by a pharmacy the packet would have had a named label on as they have to legally label them.
Also, was any Tramadol tablets left in the packet, if so, looking at the belowinfo I found, it would appear you would need to hand them in / report to police.

Ok Update....I’ve done a very quick search online

https://knowthescore.info/drugs-a-z/tramadol/

“Tramadol is a class C drug and is only available with a prescription from a doctor or other healthcare professional that is qualified to prescribe. As a class C drug, it is illegal for anyone else to supply tramadol, to have it or to give it away, even to friends.

If the Police arrest you in possession of tramadol unlawfully, they’ll always take some action. This could be a formal caution or arrest and possible conviction.

Having tramadol that is not prescribed for you for your own use (called illegal possession) could result in up to two years in prison and/or an unlimited fine. While selling or giving tramadol away for free, even to friends (called supplying) could result in up to fourteen years in prison and/or an unlimited fine.

A conviction for a drug-related offence could have a serious impact. It could make it harder, even impossible, to visit certain Countries- for example the United States – and limit the types of jobs you can apply for.”

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:32 pm

Adventurer wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:56 pm
No one will own up to having the Tramadol

If they did not have a prescription for it and owned up their could be legal issues of having possession of the drug.

I know in hospital it has to be kept locked behind two doors in the controlled drugs cupboard, with a single key holder and signed by two people on removal from the cupboard, administration and any left that’s not used.

Then signed by two people at start and end of shift.

So I’m not sure how this would affect someone carrying Tramadol (without a prescription) and what if any legal issues would be? Somebody better than me might know the answer?

Also, if another controlled drug was found, say morphine etc, this would have to be handed to the police as holding the drug could be a criminal offence. I’m not sure where Tramadol would fit into this?

Just as a side note, if issued by a pharmacy the packet would have had a named label on as they have to legally label them.
Also, was any Tramadol tablets left in the packet, if so, looking at the belowinfo I found, it would appear you would need to hand them in / report to police.

Ok Update....I’ve done a very quick search online

https://knowthescore.info/drugs-a-z/tramadol/

“Tramadol is a class C drug and is only available with a prescription from a doctor or other healthcare professional that is qualified to prescribe. As a class C drug, it is illegal for anyone else to supply tramadol, to have it or to give it away, even to friends.

If the Police arrest you in possession of tramadol unlawfully, they’ll always take some action. This could be a formal caution or arrest and possible conviction.

Having tramadol that is not prescribed for you for your own use (called illegal possession) could result in up to two years in prison and/or an unlimited fine. While selling or giving tramadol away for free, even to friends (called supplying) could result in up to fourteen years in prison and/or an unlimited fine.

A conviction for a drug-related offence could have a serious impact. It could make it harder, even impossible, to visit certain Countries- for example the United States – and limit the types of jobs you can apply for.”
And all this sort of stuff is probably why the race organiser took a perfectly understandable, proportionate response to the matter at the time and then decide on a less dramatic but reasonable way to deal with it i.e. no results.

I'll be honest, whilst a bit of gossip and speculation is fun, this seems to be getting a little out of proportion and doing what the organizer intended to avoid.

YMMV :cool:

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Lazarus » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:37 pm

what he said the facts were known from the first post everything here is the specualtion that he wanted to avoid
We dont know - and there are hundreds of plausible explanations that we cannot prove
Its ALL specualtion and its not helpful

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Adventurer » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:39 pm

.
Last edited by Adventurer on Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Adventurer » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:44 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:37 pm
what he said the facts were known from the first post everything here is the specualtion that he wanted to avoid
We dont know - and there are hundreds of plausible explanations that we cannot prove
Its ALL specualtion and its not helpful
I understand that, however I’m just looking at the drug in itself and the legalities of the drug rather than anything to do with any cycling event or any performance benefits.

This only sparked my interest, as I issue and hold keys for controlled drugs at work and it’s an extremely tightly controlled a legalistic area of my work and one of the range of controlled drugs I issue is Tramadol.

As at work I am able to hold controlled drugs via the Misuse of drugs act, amendment.

However, I’m happy to delete my posts if that makes people feel better. Just having a discussion.

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Cheeky Monkey » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:55 pm

I'm not telling anyone what to do, hence:
YMMV :cool:
I just thought as the thread might be disappearing down a (steady SR) STW-type path that it might be worth considering why less fuss was made at the time. Still, the internet is a wonderful place for disappearing into rabbit holes all round and I've done it myself more than once :cool:

TBH, I'm just here for the Pandas :wink:

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Re: 'Doping scandal of the Highland Trail 550'...?

Post by Adventurer » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:00 pm

Cheeky Monkey wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:55 pm
I'm not telling anyone what to do, hence:
YMMV :cool:
I just thought as the thread might be disappearing down a (steady SR) STW-type path that it might be worth considering why less fuss was made at the time. Still, the internet is a wonderful place for disappearing into rabbit holes all round and I've done it myself more than once :cool:

TBH, I'm just here for the Pandas :wink:

Ok, no problem. I just had a completely different factual based view of the drug in itself rather than anything to do with anything else about cycling.

Oh and I’ll admit I had to look up after what ‘YMMV’ meant, as I had no idea. :shock:

But anyway if moderator wants to delete any of my posts, go ahead if it’s for the better, got no problem with that. I will leave it to your discretion.

:smile:

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