Full suspender riders...

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FLV
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Full suspender riders...

Post by FLV » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:17 pm

Those of us that ride a full suspension bike, what you got? Any idea of the weight? How do you find it?

I ask as i have a santa cruz tallboy v3 and it's generally a pretty good bike, especially downhill ish (not DH or enduro style, just general).
Its an alloy one, 120mm pikes, deceng wheels and xt. Its also porky at 14kg.
Everytime i ride it and it comes to even a slightly uphill bit it just feels, well, slugish and cumbersome.

Im sure i didn't feel this way back in the day when i used to rattle all over the lake district on a 150/160 coil sprung bike, which weighed the same....

Anyway, whilst we're hanging around indoors, what you got? Like it?
Perhaps its just me, probably is :grin:

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sean_iow
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by sean_iow » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:29 pm

I've got a Salsa Spearfish, a 2012 model, so short travel, 80mm rear and 100mm front. It weighs 12.5kg. It has the potential to be very quick and it climbs really well :smile: It's probably also rapid downhill but I've only ridden it 3 times and they have all been post virus :sad: so I took it very steady.
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Lazarus
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by Lazarus » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:38 pm

turne 5 spot 14kg - no idea on weight its almost always carried up hill and what i use for proper lakes MTB trips - is more than capable enough for my needs though i suspect its a steep head angle v what you get these days- 26"and straight steerer.
spearfish 13 kg - bought for rough bikepacking trips in lakes and log days in the saddle , Dont think i would ever give it beans on a proper downhill but i will get down anything on it - i know i would on rigid but this is more comfortable.

Both of those have droppers on currently [ just weighed them] and platform SPD so i think i could easily shave 500-750 grammes

My genesis longtitude is way heavier as is my steel sommuter with full mudguards, dynamo hub and frame bag.

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ScotRoutes
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by ScotRoutes » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:51 pm

Orbea Occam AM. Carbon frame, Fox 34s, DT Swiss wheels.

Love it. Easily enough bike for my riding. Bought mostly for trail centres I used it quite a lot more than that last year, including doing the CL300 with it. Lightly loaded, it turned out to be by far the best choice for my attempt at that.


ImageP1060070 by Colin Cadden, on Flickr

I have plans to use it for similar trips this year - assuming we rid ourselves of the current contagion.

I have some rims that I plan to build into a better wheelset for it. Wider than the DT Swiss rims and a faster pick-up than the DT Swiss pawl hub it currently sports.

If I've not ridden it for a while (say Autumn to Spring) it definitely feels weird the first few rides. It's just me getting used to the rear suspension again after months on rigid/hardtail bikes.

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FLV
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by FLV » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:08 pm

Intrresting ta
No ones mentioning feelining sluggish to ride, so possibly me then

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sean_iow
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by sean_iow » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:19 pm

Is the Santa Cruz a 120mm travel? Which is 50% more than my Spearfish. Also, I'm still in the new bike honeymoon period so it's bound to feel fast :smile:
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by redefined_cycles » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:23 pm

Dave... why'd you open this thread :o ... Now I want a full sus again!! Right after wanting a Ti road bike or mtb...

Anyway, can't talk bout cyrrent times but used to own a Santa Cruz Superlight. Never really felt sluggish and had a rear end (as well as the front Magura Menjas 140mm) that was quite stable when climbing uphill (some fox shocks that would semi lock themselves out).

Bet if I was to ride something full sus now though I'd probably find it sluggish. I've been on rigid for years you see and only recently came back to a HT (my Stan) and most my riding is on the road bike.... Anyway, full sus bikes that can go uphill nicely too... they are rather ace ain't they

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FLV
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by FLV » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:26 pm

110 at the back. I've had it about 10 months but done less than 500km. Ive tried fast tyres too.

I used to have a super light too shaf, good bike it was

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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by Lazarus » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:27 pm

its hard for me to say as i usually come off a winter SS or a stupidly heavy Genesis- almost always used for bikepacking trips with Mrs lazarus
Its suggsh compared to the former but not the later

The spearfish is definely firmer than the 5 spot though both are VPP type anti bob weagle designs

When i have done to much road riding i get on a suspension bike and always stop to check for a front puncture !

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Charliecres
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by Charliecres » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:42 pm

I have an alu Smuggler - 130 at the front and 110 at the back. Shortest travel full sus I’ve had but also perhaps the most confidence inspiring.

If I’m honest though I’m a hard tail fan at heart and probably spend at least half my time riding rigid bikes these days. There’s something about simplicity...

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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by redefined_cycles » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:58 pm

Dave... spent alot of time getting it setup...

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Finally got there though... Although some idiot forgot to move the Osprey (although its good adevertising as they were giving us for a McMillan ride by them years earlier)

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Bloomin lovely bikes. Pity about my fear of heights that always stops me from truly enjoying such mountains

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FLV
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by FLV » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:20 am

Charliecres wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:42 pm
If I’m honest though I’m a hard tail fan at heart ...
That there is probably my actual issue. Ive had a few in the last few years and they never actually get riden all that much.

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FLV
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by FLV » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 am

Nice Shaf, nice.

Mine was this one
https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-CA ... erlight/29

Cant seem to see any pics of my actual one

boxelder
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by boxelder » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:34 am

Salsa Spearfish 2019, carbon. Lots of fun downhill, even on 2.3" tyres - it'll take 2.6" on 29er. Climbs every bit as well as the lightweight Tallboy V1 I had before, but is a bit heavier. I've not weighed it, but guess it's approaching 13 kg. It feel so much less noodly though.

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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:54 am

FLV wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 am
Nice Shaf, nice.

Mine was this one
https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-CA ... erlight/29

Cant seem to see any pics of my actual one
:-bd lovely they were Dave... I never actually managed to get one of them newer models. The orange one I had was actually one I lusted (too strong a term maybe but you know what I mean) after for years after seeing one of the girls winning it on/in MBR and then it became avialable on ebay for cheap so I grabbed it.

The bearings on SC bikes though.... Last forever (and I think used to come with a lifetime warranty, no?)... Anyway, I think I'm with you lot on the fact that hardtails are rigid are just sooo much nicer. Dont need to find the wrost of trails to catch a little 'thrill'... :smile: ... I think I still want one though but unfortunately dont have a spare kidney going to fund either a SC or a SF... :wink:

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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by composite » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:38 am

Still got my 2009 Orange Five. It's just a really fun bike to ride. I don't really ride it enough anymore but it's worth more to me for 5 or 6 rides a year, than what I would ever get for it selling it on.

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In Reverse
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by In Reverse » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:12 am

FLV wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:08 pm
Intrresting ta
No ones mentioning feelining sluggish to ride, so possibly me then
Mine's an absolute lump to ride uphill. I despise climbing on it. :lol: It's leg-sapping to get it to accelerate too so yeah, sluggish would be one word to describe it.*

Weight obviously makes a difference but it's geometry and how much/how little your shock will lock out that really affects climbing, imo.

*It's ridiculously smooth and stable downhill though, amply masking the many deficiencies in my technique. :cool:
(Mondraker Crafty RR+, 160/150 with plus tyres. 15.1kg :???: )

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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by sean_iow » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:44 am

In Reverse wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:12 am
Weight obviously makes a difference but it's geometry and how much/how little your shock will lock out that really affects climbing, imo.
My Spearfish has old school geometry which helps and the shock and fork both lock out solid so it feels like a fully rigid bike if wanted for road climbs. Whist we're all posting pics of our bikes :smile:

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Taken on the very first ride which was an over-nighter, given the times a rather appropriate post apocalypse setting :wink:

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And unloaded the following weekend in the sun
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by whitestone » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:57 am

I think Sean's Spearfish is the same vintage as mine, circa 2012. With Rockshox Reba forks, no dropper post, carbon Jones Loops, a 1x11 drivetrain, Hope wheels and brakes, non-platform SPD pedals it comes in at 12.5kg. Then you add stuff :roll:

Last year's JennRide.

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FLV
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by FLV » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:00 am

Interestingly (or not), looking up reviews... the bike I have is supposedly sprightly and fast :lol:

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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 am

No ones mentioning feelining sluggish to ride, so possibly me then
I do Dave BUT I haven't owned a full suspension bike for a good number of years (probably at least 10) but whenever I borrow / pinch one it somehow feel like I'm pedalling through treacle. I don't think there's any really issues with the bikes, I think it lies with me and the fact that I've become so used to not having suspension.
#corporate shill for hire

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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by sean_iow » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:26 am

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 am
somehow feel like I'm pedalling through treacle.
I last rode my rigid singlespeed on a wednesday* and the saturday (3 days of sunshine later) I rode the Spearfish for the first time. The trails had dried out so it was the first time in months that I wasn't riding through treacle which may have added to the sensation of sprightliness.

* I haven't abandoned the singlespeed but noticed the rear rim had cracked at the spoke-holes when I washed it on the saturday, so it's temporarily out of action. I have started lacing the new rim up so it will be ready for action again soon, whenever that might be :sad:
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Alpinum
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by Alpinum » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:57 am

FLV wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:17 pm
Those of us that ride a full suspension bike, what you got?
Highly customised Kona Hei Hei DL (2017). Got it in summer 2017, so it was "a bargain". Total cost of the bike including the customisation was about 4500.- CHF.
Original parts are frame, shock, fork and brakes.
Built it up with
- -2 ° angelset (HA = 66 °)
- KHS/Lightbicycle i30mm carbon rims, 28 spokes, DT350 hubs
- Swissstop E-Bike brake pads
- Ragley carbon handle bar
- 40 mm Newman stem - changed it to 50 mm last year (fits me better fpr the Kona and Bold - I simply exchanged the stems)
- KindShox LEV post (2nd one now. First, as usual in my experience, made problems fairly soon. Second has been running strong for 2 years now)
- Selle Italia SLR saddle
- XTR pedals - what a mistake. After 2 years I needed to replace the bearings and found out, that it's cheaper to get new XT pedals...
- "old" Sram X01 carbon crank from a former bike - waiting for it to crack... but no... still going strong whilst looking poor show
- mix of X01 Eagle cassette and chain (from a "wear set") combined with GX mech and trigger
- currently on Maxxis Forekaster 2.6" (dual) front and Ikon 2.35" (MaxxSpeed) rear

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Goes well with a frame bag too:
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This is the old frame bag I used on my BMC – you have already seen in persona. The zips are failing, the Velcro is coming apart, so hopefully I’ll get one done soon myself, which fits the frame better.


FLV wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:17 pm
Any idea of the weight?
11.4 kg as above.

FLV wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:17 pm
How do you find it?
Wonderful. I test rode a few long and short travel 29ers in 2017 before buying the Bold (long travel 29er - likely not what your looking for) and the Kona. Short travel bikes like BMC, Stoll, Niner, Santa Cruz, Yeti, Specialized, Trek, Norco. I really liked the Trek Fuel EX, but it's too much of do it all bike. If I wanted one FS bike, this or something very similar would likely be the one. Extremely well balanced in just about every situation. Too much travel, too forgiving (yet a stiff chassis) for a snappy short travel 29er though. The Stoll was a bit similar. Superb mid travel bike, but not a handy frame for a frame bag (which is quite important for me) and rather expensive. Also, the Fuel and Stoll T1 were not enough rowdy for my likes.
The Yeti SB4.5 was utter fun. Really, really fun to ride. Stiff, responsive, turns like a *insert a strong word* but unfortunately even with 2.25" tyres a bit tight in the back and then there are some issues with the distributor in Switzerland.
Then came along the Kona... Short chainstay, decent reach, spot on bb height and easy to adjust HA, all in a very lightweight package for comparably little money. Fox 34 with the really good GRIP cartridge.
It rides fairly similar to the SB4.5 - the geometry lets you ride so you forget that it just has 100 mm in the rear. The chassis has just the right amount of give for long days, yet without feeling too soft. It's a precise bike. It's snappy, carves turns and whilst I usually ride uphill rather gently and let it go on the descents, it definately really easy to go fast on climbs, in the flat or descending.
For fast paced riding on easy terrain I used Racing Ralph/Ray last summer only to find, that it's holding the bikes capabilities back too much. Also I struggled to accept the tyres limits and had a few not so nice wash outs. The larger volume and more aggressive Forekaster and Ikons suit the bike and my riding (style and terrain) really well.

I think it's my most ridden bike. Proper shame Kona has stopped producing it. They still have an alloy version though and might come up with a slighly refined carbon Hei Hei for 2021.

Currently there are some really fine 100 - 120 mm bikes out there, but your Tallboy could surely be tuned a bit to give it a "unsluggish" feel.
Is it the Tallboy that was made between 2016 and 2019?
I only know the carbon version and would definately not get a new bike if it felt sluggish. I don't know the alloy version and haven't ridden aluminium for a while and the carbon frame might make for a big difference, but likely a lot of sluggishness can be eliminated by changing the tyres, wheels, fit, suspension adjustment etc. In my opinion the frame, with the right components, felt really good (but as said, was the carbon version - stiffer and lighter...)

I find carbon rims really change how 29ers ride. More feedback, more precision, snappier, less of a slugger etc. Just make sure the spokes have some give and go lower with the spoke count than with an alloy rim. The sturdy carbon rims on my Bold and the stiff chassis of the frame and Fox 36 make it a hellish fast and responsive bike, but it's not comfortable and harsh. As Rachel Atherton once said (roughly)- her DH race bike is very fast, but very uncomfortable.

Long story short: get the latest carbon version :lol:

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 am
I do Dave BUT I haven't owned a full suspension bike for a good number of years (probably at least 10) but whenever I borrow / pinch one it somehow feel like I'm pedalling through treacle. I don't think there's any really issues with the bikes, I think it lies with me and the fact that I've become so used to not having suspension.
Ride uphill on rough stuff with a fs bike. Walk it with a rigid due to the lack of grip. So much for treacle. I ride both (fs and rigid) very regularly and once the terrain is rough enough ... well... as usual; horses for courses.
I can lock my suspension front and rear for those rare road/smooth double track climbs and it pretty much feels like a rigid bike - my rigid bikes are ssp and steel, both heavier than my full carbon fs bikes - and feel slower on climbs. Once on rough tracks, with opened valves on my fs bikes, I can ride with an efficiency no rigid bike can even compare to. Turn it the way you want. If you're not a roadie or a gravel Taylor, fs definately has a place. Not to speak about the damage to be body (especially wrists) a few months can do riding rigid in some places the way some do :wink:

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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by sean_iow » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:15 pm

Alpinum wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:57 am
- "old" Sram X01 carbon crank from a former bike - waiting for it to crack... but no... still going strong whilst looking poor show
I have Sram X0 on both my mountain bikes. I've got silicon boots on the ends. To protect the arms I have these

https://www.slikgraphics.com/collection ... x01-cranks

They last me about a year before pedal rub starts to rub through, I notice it especially in the winter when it's muddy. I also have them colour coded to the bikes :smile: I could just cut some plain ones from black vinyl or clear tape which would be cheaper. I have to protect the arms as I tend to get quite bad pedal rub (wonky feet?) and I'm worried about going through the carbon
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In Reverse
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Re: Full suspender riders...

Post by In Reverse » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:30 pm

sean_iow wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:44 am
Whist we're all posting pics of our bikes :smile:
Go on then:

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I put a 2° angled headset on it since that picture for taking to Morzine so the front end is now super slack, which obvo doesn't help with the climbing bit. :roll: The only original part left on the bike is the stem. :grin:

If I was buying again I'd probably go for Gian's or Karl's.

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