Swapping to Alfine 11

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99percentchimp
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Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by 99percentchimp »

Time in the shed coming up.... trying to turn self isolation into productive time.

I have a Swift that I currently run 1x with a Paul chain keeper.

I also have a 29er Alfine 11 wheel and shifter off a mate that I plan on sticking in the back end of the Swift, and adding some Jones bars from off here.

I’ve had a look on line and have a rough idea but any first hand experience of stuff to do/avoid would be appreciated. New chain needed??

This weeks project...... ‘kind of’ rigid monstercross-ish :-bd Photos to follow. Thanks Mark
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by pistonbroke »

Some tips from a (very)early adopter. You'll notice that the axle isn't round, it should have 2 coloured "no turn" washers. These are available in various orientations and colours to suit the angle of the gear cable as it attaches to the actuating arm. Make sure the cable path is as straight as possible and use new, good quality, inner and preferrably full length outer cable and ferrules. The cable movement is critical to good indexing as is keeping the V shaped groove in the actuating arm assembly totally clear of crap. Follow the cable cutting instructions to the letter and ensure the 2 yellow tabs line up exactly in the specified gear, from memory it's 7. You may have gathered that indexing is an issue on these hubs, if you get it even slightly wrong, you'll get mis-shifts which cause internal damage and failure. This is different to the 8 speed which is renowned for it's reliability, I think the 11 speed was a victim of trying to fit too many gears into a tight space which required tolerances that very small variances in everyday use couldn't cope with. I had 1 explode which was replaced under warranty, I now use a Rohloff which is in a different league of engineering. (And cost)
SJS Cycles may still stock the no turn washers.
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99percentchimp
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by 99percentchimp »

Cheers Duncan.... low cost experimentation at present. Will offer what I have up to the drop outs and see what’s needed.
I know it’s been serviced to date.... let’s hope I don’t mash it too much. It has been robust to date.
I got the bit about the marks lining up in a gear. I’ll double check that too. Be interesting to see what I can do to make it work.
Has a cable already on it but will be off a smaller frame so I’ll see what I need for the XL Swift and have a look on SJS.
Hope all well with you. I have colleagues in Spain and Portugal (and my partners Portuguese too) so I’m hearing first hand the effects of isolation on life and the health service down your way.
Ta, Mark
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Cheeky Monkey
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

I've got someone off here's old Swift running an Alf11 (it used to be orange but was repainted by the intermediate owner a natty blue). Its quite nice. A bit short in the TT for me but I think it's exacerbated by the inline dropper post.

Runs pretty smooth. Gear range is nicer / better than the Alf8 on my roadrat. Had to gear that one down to, iirc, a 16T at the rear.

Non-turn washers are critical. Various configurations denoted by colour (blue, green, white, IIRC). Mine is set up with the arm pointing up the seat stay, a mechanic swore it was the best set up. Roadrat runs the arm parallel to chainstay. I've not noticed any significant impacts of either configuration.

Make sure you line up the two yellow marks (on the hub) with the gear shift in correct position. Iirc, again, it's the only mid position numbered on the shifter window ie 1, 11 and 7.

Get the shimano manuals, they really help with set-up and fitting.

Oh, and lining up the disc brake can be a PITA as you're effectively running horizontal drop-outs (edit - no you're not, but you'll use the eccentric BB of the Swift to tension the chain. Don't overtighten and I think you need or its advised to use a SS chain). A drive side chain tug can be handy for this. And you need two spanners to fit the God-awful long closed-end axle nuts in case you need to adjust, change the tyre, repair a puncture etc.

If you can't find manuals let me know. I might have them and be able to scan copies.
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99percentchimp
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by 99percentchimp »

Cheeky Monkey wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:07 pm I've got someone off here's old Swift running an Alf11 (it used to be orange but was repainted by the intermediate owner a natty blue). Its quite nice. A bit short in the TT for me but I think it's exacerbated by the inline dropper post.

Runs pretty smooth. Gear range is nicer / better than the Alf8 on my roadrat. Had to gear that one down to, iirc, a 16T at the rear.

Non-turn washers are critical. Various configurations denoted by colour (blue, green, white, IIRC). Mine is set up with the arm pointing up the seat stay, a mechanic swore it was the best set up. Roadrat runs the arm parallel to chainstay. I've not noticed any significant impacts of either configuration.

Make sure you line up the two yellow marks (on the hub) with the gear shift in correct position. Iirc, again, it's the only mid position numbered on the shifter window ie 1, 11 and 7.

Get the shimano manuals, they really help with set-up and fitting.

Oh, and lining up the disc brake can be a PITA as you're effectively running horizontal drop-outs (edit - no you're not, but you'll use the eccentric BB of the Swift to tension the chain. Don't overtighten and I think you need or its advised to use a SS chain). A drive side chain tug can be handy for this. And you need two spanners to fit the God-awful long closed-end axle nuts in case you need to adjust, change the tyre, repair a puncture etc.

If you can't find manuals let me know. I might have them and be able to scan copies.
Cheers CM...
Good feedback - thanks. Will have a look at the non-turn washers I have and see what will work as well as orientation of the arm - I'm thinking along the chain stay for cable run more than anything. You're right on the EBB and I'll find some lightwiegt spanners for a trip out first time (if we can?)
Brain dead at present here - of course Shimano manuals on line... doh! Thanks for the reminder. :-bd
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Keyw ... &name_web=
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Cyclepeasant
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by Cyclepeasant »

Punctures on a hub geared bike are a bit of a faff with wheelnuts.
:|
Just a suggestion.
Get a pair of Poundland c-spanner set. Save the 15mm ones and grind off the opposite end to save a few grams. Or better still a pair of 15mm ring spanners,got a few from car boot sales once ,four for a £1!
Sad I know,but I have a lot of hub geared bikes, the two rohloff ones luckily have QR.
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ScotRoutes
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by ScotRoutes »

I ran an Alfine 11 on my 9ZERO7 for a while. It's worth playing around with the non-turn washers to get a good cable run. IIRC I swapped them around and managed to get it running up the seatstay very nicely. The hub is finicky when it somes to cable tension so be prepared for a bit of fiddling with the "yellow markers" :wink:

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Cheeky Monkey
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

He's right about the spanners and I have done almost exactly that.

IIRC someone once recommended some alternative axle nuts that were at least a little lower profile. I think they were BMX ones. Never ended up changing mine.

I've not noticed any particularl sensitivity between the 8 and 11 to set-up. Anecdote not evidence :cool:
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99percentchimp
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by 99percentchimp »

Cheeky Monkey wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:07 pm I've got someone off here's old Swift running an Alf11 (it used to be orange but was repainted by the intermediate owner a natty blue). Its quite nice. A bit short in the TT for me but I think it's exacerbated by the inline dropper post.
Hi CM - what colour non-turn nuts are you running in there please? Cheers, Mark
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

Driveside is green, caliper side is blue.
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Mart
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by Mart »

Shouldn't need the chain keeper with a swift. The EBB does a good job in terms of chain tension
I never had one and never dropped a chain
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99percentchimp
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by 99percentchimp »

Cheeky Monkey wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:55 pm Driveside is green, caliper side is blue.
Cheers - very helpful CM :-bd
Mart wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:22 pm Shouldn't need the chain keeper with a swift. The EBB does a good job in terms of chain tension
I never had one and never dropped a chain
This will come off with the RD but it did a good job of keeping the chain in place, when getting bounced about, on a non-clutch (is that a thing?) RD. :grin:
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Evesie
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by Evesie »

The yellow dots alignment is not gospel as there is a part of the shift mechanism that can effectively "twist" over time due to gear changing loads. So the dot on the shift drum ends up needing to be further clockwise to get the shift pawls correctly aligned. This may only be the thickness of the yellow line, but it's that sensitive. Pedal around gently adjusting one or two cable clicks at a time until all gears are happily engaging. It's good practice to leave the hub in top gear - i.e. no tension on gear cable - when not using the bike. Been running 8 & 11 Alfines for numerous years, they all end up dying of something eventually no matter how careful they are treated, either internal failures or hub body - the disc mount shears off (don't use too big a rotor)- some of the parts are not available from Shimano for repair so you end up with a a stock of semi broken hubs & keep an eye on interweb for apparently dead hubs to cannibalise. So, stick to derrailliers unless you like an engineering challenge & have a bike that you can't really use for anything other than s/s - my reasoning for putting up with them :roll:
Cyclepeasant
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by Cyclepeasant »

Evesie wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:40 am The yellow dots alignment is not gospel as there is a part of the shift mechanism that can effectively "twist" over time due to gear changing loads. So the dot on the shift drum ends up needing to be further clockwise to get the shift pawls correctly aligned. This may only be the thickness of the yellow line, but it's that sensitive. Pedal around gently adjusting one or two cable clicks at a time until all gears are happily engaging. It's good practice to leave the hub in top gear - i.e. no tension on gear cable - when not using the bike. Been running 8 & 11 Alfines for numerous years, they all end up dying of something eventually no matter how careful they are treated, either internal failures or hub body - the disc mount shears off (don't use too big a rotor)- some of the parts are not available from Shimano for repair so you end up with a a stock of semi broken hubs & keep an eye on interweb for apparently dead hubs to cannibalise. So, stick to derrailliers unless you like an engineering challenge & have a bike that you can't really use for anything other than s/s - my reasoning for putting up with them :roll:
Surprised that you have that many failures Evesie.
The only failure I had was when I got stitched up on eBay with a s/h 8spd alfine wheel. It was noisy on my first ride. Took it apart and found clutch asst bearing race fooked. I suspect the previous owner overtightened the chain tension.
However, agree with you,the dot alignment is not gospel, a new 8spd hub had a 1mm space between dots before the gears functioned correctly, changing the cable shift mechanism didn't make any difference,so it was internal.
Still works fine after years of commuting and off roading. Hey ho! :smile:
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Mart
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Re: Swapping to Alfine 11

Post by Mart »

My experience with Alfine 8 was mostly positive

I had very little problems, set up was easy, chain tensioned through Ebb fine and worked fine with Oval Chainrings
I generally neglected it in a big way which was my downfall

For the first 3 years I did absolutely nothing and eventually moisture go into the hub attaching the bearings
The replacement was given a once every 6-9 months strip, clean out and re-grease.

Occasionally every couple of years I would put a fresh cable on, to keep the shifting sweet.
Mostly I did this in advance of anything becoming an issue
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