Yeah, I'm being selfish because I don't want people congregating in parks etc spreading a life threatening virus. Sounds about right.

It's really not complicated to avoid other people, or better still, stay the hell indoors.

10.4 million people with gym memberships Richard. They all need to go somewhere to exercise now, and when you live in London your choices are pretty limited tbf.

10.4 million people with gym memberships Richard. They all need to go somewhere to exercise now, and when you live in London your choices are pretty limited tbf.

Pretty much said the same to Dee today. Lots of people wanting to be out and many believing that they're heeding goverment advice, yet places to do so are becoming less ... result, lots of folk in one place.

Similar thoughts here. Not condoning peoples actions, but if you can’t:

Go to work
Go to the pub
Visit friends/family
Go shopping
Get supples for gardening/diy

Then I’m not sure what else people can do part from get outside and enjoy a bit of sunshine, apart from sit inside all day listening to the news and watching day time tv?

"not sure what else people can do". The 'make our own entertainment' negotiations with Mrs Perrin aren't going very well. As expected really.

Have now started a wooden automaton kit that I was given for my birthday.

I think this is the biggest challenge we face. Lets be honest people can't just sit in their houses 24/7, even the hardcore couch potatoes. Its easy to slag off all those people trying to push the rules but whats behind this? What I'm going through and an infinite variation thereof. I need to be outside, in the fresh air, away from people, my office, my house, that's the life I lead. Its very easy to interpret the 'rules' / laws to allow me to continue this. I balance this need with social responsibility and a general tendency towards a guilty conscience. We all need to get out and socialise, its part of our character. Up here its easy as I live in a fairly sparsely populated area so I can get out for some fresh air without fighting for space with 5 million others. In big cities its nigh on impossible.

So.

Whats worse - the psychological impact of total isolation and all its related problems (really don't underestimate this, just think where this could lead in our society), or allowing this virus to spread quicker by allowing some social contact with all the consequences of that.....

I don't know, maybe nobody does.

None of us like it, but because apparently we all suddenly need to be outside all the time (rather than a couple of times a week as would be normal)... this is basically what comes next:



So because people are treating this as a holiday it wont be long before none of us are cycling more than 10 mins from our house... and yeah, we could stay indoors significantly more than we apparently are. But it seems we're willing to do it up to the point where we decide it negatively affects our lifestyle too much. I must be missing something, because I'm pretty certain there's a whole shitload of outdoors out there, yet somehow everyone lacks the imagination not to end up in the same place. I guess those stronger rules listed above fix that though... no-one goes more than 20 mins from their houses.

As for what's worse, some mental hardship from isolation vs the virus spreading uncontrollably. Go and ask an ICU medic in London, Madrid, New York, Bergamo. You'll get a pretty clear answer.

The hell is wrong with us? I'm about as outdoorsy as any of you and I managed to stay indoors two months after breaking my hip without losing my mind. Suck it up. It's been two weeks for Christ's sake.

Edit - To be clear, I'm specifically referencing people feeling the need to get out on the bike every day for hours / people driving to national parks / people having barbeques / congregating in groups etc. It's irresponsible, and potentially deadly for vulnerable members of society.

I also appreciate that my opinion here isn't going to be a popular one, because it essentially means we all need to take responsibility and do a lot less of something that we love. Me especially, as my tendency to end up in hospital isn't going to help reduce the burden on the NHS.

That's a scattergun post Rich.

Who are you venting at here? Us, or all the selfish people taking exercise in London parks?

Depends, are you feeling the need to be out for multiple hours a day when you wouldn't normally be? Because if so, yeah, definitely "us". Do you feel like you're on holiday because you might not be in work? Definitely "us". Are you feeling self entitled about being outdoors despite there being a deadly pandemic going on? In which case... yup, "us" again.

Or of course, if you're in any of those other groups I mentioned. I don't really see that we'd be any less guilty of this behaviour than other people. Really doesn't matter that it's our primary hobby, we should still moderate as appropriate to as to reduce the risk to others / reduce any demand on emergency services (be it the police to tell us to go home, mountain rescue to save our asses if something goes wrong, or the ambulance service to pick me up after I've screwed myself up again).

Why would you worry about how someone feels?

I'm not sure I follow. I worry about people spreading the virus around / putting unnecessary strain on already stretched health services. If you mean why I mention people feeling self entitled... it's because these are exactly the sort of people to say "screw you, you can't tell me what to do" and just do whatever the hell they want to do anyway.

Sadly we are most definitely all in this together this time... and that's terrifying.

Richard G wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 am I'm not sure I follow. I worry about people spreading the virus around / putting unnecessary strain on already stretched health services.

I get the impression that everyone on here is being sensible and pragmatic on here (happy to be corrected otherwise)

There are many ‘key workers’ on here who are doing a fantastic job right now, and probably need to get out for a few hours to destress and switch off for a while.

There’s a lot of emotions floating around at the moment, so just be careful of tarnishing everyone on here with the same brush because a few people arnt following rule #1

Richard G wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 am I'm not sure I follow. I worry about people spreading the virus around / putting unnecessary strain on already stretched health services. If you mean why I mention people feeling self entitled... it's because these are exactly the sort of people to say "screw you, you can't tell me what to do" and just do whatever the hell they want to do anyway.

Sadly we are most definitely all in this together this time... and that's terrifying.

People are allowed out to exercise bro.

Families can go to parks too.

That's all cool in the governments guidance and legislation.

I don't know who the people are who've been saying "screw you"? Had you been calling them selfish?

Maybe we on here are unique. We are used to varying degrees of hardship, albeit self inflicted. We are used to being on our own, being self sufficient, dealing with adversity, dealing with restrictions on what we want. Other people in the world will have considerably greater talents for the above, often through no choice of their own.

But most people here and in Europe or America will live a life of constant social contact, constant contact with friends and family, instant access to anything they want or can afford (or not). Suddenly these people are being asked to cut most of this off. Is it really unexpected that they will rebel against this? People live in context. Possibly attitudes will change when loved ones are directly affected by this virus. Until then many will try to cling to the realities they know and understand in a bid to maintain a normal life.
Don't judge them.

Chew wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:14 am I get the impression that everyone on here is being sensible and pragmatic on here (happy to be corrected otherwise)

There are many ‘key workers’ on here who are doing a fantastic job right now, and probably need to get out for a few hours to destress and switch off for a while.

There’s a lot of emotions floating around at the moment, so just be careful of tarnishing everyone on here with the same brush because a few people arnt following rule #1

Yeah, I've had a couple contact me to thank me for posting an alternate viewpoint.

...and honestly, anyone that's likely to get offended probably knows that they need to moderate their behaviour anyway, so that's not inherently a bad thing. Echo chambers are rarely helpful.

I'm reasonably certain this community can handle a bit of disagreement now and again without any harm being inflicted.

htrider wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:18 am Don't judge them.

Yeah, that's pretty difficult when they're actively putting the health of others at risk. Done innocently is one thing, but doing it knowingly is unforgivable.

Wise words in a subscription blog-email yesterday,

I am working on slowing the rhythms of my life down, perhaps like a hibernating animal slows its heart-beat. I feel like now’s the time for life-advice from people who spend years living on space-stations or alone in arctic weather outposts.

https://www.alexroddie.com/2020/03/coro ... rward.html

An interesting read on this topic (posted without any agree/don't agree intended)

jameso wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:12 am Wise words in a subscription blog-email yesterday,

I am working on slowing the rhythms of my life down, perhaps like a hibernating animal slows its heart-beat. I feel like now’s the time for life-advice from people who spend years living on space-stations or alone in arctic weather outposts.

Ooooo, if you want to hear what an astronaut has to say about coping with isolation (haven't listened myself yet, but am planning to), then Chris Hadfield was on the Cosmic Shambles Stay at Home Festival the other day.

https://cosmicshambles.com/stayathome/a ... -astronaut

^
one for later, thanks. Still wondering what to do with the extra hours in the weekend. Getting back into good reading habits I hope, less screens + more pages. Podcasts too (some interesting ones on The Knowledge Project site for anyone who just likes listening to smart people talking about their subjects).

K1100T wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:40 am

jameso wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:12 am Wise words in a subscription blog-email yesterday,

I am working on slowing the rhythms of my life down, perhaps like a hibernating animal slows its heart-beat. I feel like now’s the time for life-advice from people who spend years living on space-stations or alone in arctic weather outposts.

Ooooo, if you want to hear what an astronaut has to say about coping with isolation (haven't listened myself yet, but am planning to), then Chris Hadfield was on the Cosmic Shambles Stay at Home Festival the other day.

https://cosmicshambles.com/stayathome/a ... -astronaut

Thanks, I'd missed that

Richard G wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:50 pm So because people are treating this as a holiday it wont be long before none of us are cycling more than 10 mins from our house... and yeah, we could stay indoors significantly more than we apparently are. But it seems we're willing to do it up to the point where we decide it negatively affects our lifestyle too much.....

The hell is wrong with us? I'm about as outdoorsy as any of you and I managed to stay indoors two months after breaking my hip without losing my mind. Suck it up. It's been two weeks for Christ's sake.

Yep! That's what happened here and in Italy and Spain.

People took the piss and before long that particular allowance was taken away.

The idea is simple - do what needs to be done to minimise the numbers of people dying.

If that's possible whilst still exercising then great, if not then stop exercising.

If it's possible with light outside time then great, if not then that stops too.

So every time some dick Triathlete decides that a 9.5 hour ride is ok it makes it more likely that you'll all have your playtime taken away.

Every time people decide that being in the park (because the current rules say they can) is more important than keeping a safe distance then they force the hand of those charged with creating rules that ensure that the things that need to happen actually happen.

It's just so narrow-minded and selfish to incredulously claim it must be ok to do any action that isn't strictly speaking going against the letter of the rules when it's clearly going against the intended meaning of the rules.

Hmm, astronauts are self-selected then system selected AND highly trained individuals. Not listened to the podcast but no doubt there are isolation management techniques discussed.

As Phil says, those of us here are pretty well adapted to handle this. I've often thought that one of the main aptitudes for ITTs is being comfortable with your own company as that's likely to be all that you've got for considerable periods of time.

The Richmond Park example is interesting: you'd expect peaks and troughs in normal usage according to the timescales of the working day, so for the park to be "packed" something else is happening. Either those who exercise regularly but normally elsewhere are using the park and/or those who don't exercise are using it just to "get out of the house" and their lack of experience in exercising means they just head to the honey pots. This means that those places get shut down - see NT, FC, etc. meaning even fewer places to go meaning more crowding.

The official guidelines don't help: no unnecessary travel but you can travel to exercise? If you live in London you've either got the parks or you drive out to the Downs to go for a walk/ride/run. We're lucky as we live in a rural location and can go for a half-hour to hour walk or a couple of hours' ride without seeing anyone but not everyone has that luxury. Even so, I've only done one bike ride (local) in the last two weeks so that's since before the lockdown.

I reckon everyone knows a full lock down is coming anyway and are simply looking to make the most of what freedom they have before it is taken away from them.

ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:04 am I reckon everyone knows a full lock down is coming anyway and are simply looking to make the most of what freedom they have before it is taken away from them.

Thus ensuring that it happens

Yep. There's a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy about it.