If we close up for a bit...

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

Who will still go out for a bivvy ride?

I will
10
15%
I won’t
43
65%
Undecided
13
20%
 
Total votes: 66

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RIP
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Wed May 13, 2020 9:28 pm

Chew, there was some rumour that "Tony" Hancock has backpedalled on it but I can't find any details.

Interestingly I've just been burbling to a pal whose missus is chief solicitor or whatever it is for a big linear park thing with fishing lakes. Now that fishing is apparently allowed they've had loads of fishing people contacting them saying "jolly good, but we all want to do overnight fishing and is it allowed to bivvy while we're there". Solicitor lady contacted "a government person" who replied "yes that's fine" and also added that "normal campsites" aren't open. If that's true - and he's a fairly reliable pal - then we're almost (completely?) in the clear Here too I would say. Buy yourself a cheap rod and some maggots (bag 'em properly or they'll be all over your seat pack!), and provided you've done the usual "asked the landowner beforehand" away you go.

We've obviously chatted before about locations/situations where bivvying is actually OK in normal times anyway - such as foreshore, above 500m ("generally accepted"), canal towpaths (with permit), stopping to rest "while on a journey" (complex one) etc.

Sorry for lack of lucidity, I've had an emergency mid-week beer, but the point's still an interesting one.
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

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MuddyPete
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by MuddyPete » Wed May 13, 2020 9:37 pm

Have you just invented "fishpacking"? :???:
May you always have tail wind.

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PaulB2
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by PaulB2 » Wed May 13, 2020 9:48 pm

MuddyPete wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:37 pm
Have you just invented "fishpacking"? :???:
No, the bloke on PathLessPedaled has been doing that for years.

Landslide
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Landslide » Wed May 13, 2020 9:53 pm

RIP wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:28 pm
I've had an emergency mid-week beer...
With you on that one. Cheers.

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Wed May 13, 2020 10:00 pm

I think I have :smile: .

"Angling Trust CEO Jamie Cook said on the afternoon of Wednesday, May 13: “The government had previously announced that it intended to publish a new rule on travel that would mean that anyone travelling for sport and leisure would have to return home at the end of each day.

“This would have effectively banned night fishing. However through our contacts at Sport England, Angling Trust have successfully lobbied for a change in wording.

“We are delighted to announce that the Government’s much anticipated new statement on travel and sport instead now reads ‘From today (13 May 2020) people in England can spend more time outdoors and enjoy a wider range of activities for any length of time, subject to social distancing rules.’

“The Angling Trust view is that night fishing is allowed.

Prior to the question mark being swept away, the Trust had put out a statement on the situation: “As of this morning (May 12) there’s nothing in the published government documents that prohibits night fishing as opposed to visiting holiday homes or campsites as set out in section one of the guidance on the gov.uk website (Coronavirus outbreak FAQs).

“However, following the Prime Minister’s statement yesterday we have been informed that further guidance will be issued tomorrow (May 13) which will require people to return to their home every night. This would technically preclude anglers from fishing overnight.

“The Angling Trust advice has always been to travel to fish in accordance with government guidelines and this remains the same.

“However, we do not believe that the government ever intended to place limits on the ability of anglers, or indeed others, to practice their sport at night and so we are seeking urgent clarification on this matter.

“Angling was added to the list of permitted activities on the basis of the proposals set out in the Angling Trust’s ‘When We Fish Again’ report and we did not see night fishing as a problem.

“In the meantime we can only reiterate the need to follow the published government guidance as far as it affects our sport.

“We will publish further updates when we know more,” added the Angling Trust.

And now the Trust have delivered their update. They say night fishing is allowed. It’s fine where venues actually allow it, and providing that anglers follow all venue rules."
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Wed May 13, 2020 10:31 pm

This post is off-topic, sorry, but am philosophically musing and my post above reminded me of my, and others I know, views and previous discussions about what's the difference between stopping for a snooze of unspecified length of time by the wayside during daylight whilst on a journey, and doing it at nighttime. I doubt whether anybody has EVER been moved on whilst doing the former so why do we get grief about the latter where the only difference is it's dark. Never understood it. And if you're not in a 'structure' you're on even more solid ground (as it were) - bivvy bag not a structure, hammock presumably not, tarp a little more borderline, tent would be (pole).
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

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ScotRoutes
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by ScotRoutes » Wed May 13, 2020 10:50 pm

LOLs from north of the border.

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RIP
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Wed May 13, 2020 11:22 pm

Knew that was coming :smile: .
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

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K1100T
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by K1100T » Thu May 14, 2020 6:23 pm

On camping holidays, Shapps says people have to stay in their homes at night, at the moment, and not stay over anywhere.

Prof Van Tam says it will “take some careful thought” to change the advice and it is “not as straightforward as it might sound”.

“That will need some careful thinking about because sharing a tent is a small enclosed space with generally poor ventilation,” he says. “Depends who you are sharing it with.”
Evidently this is today's "advice"...
I like beer. 🍻

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RIP
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Thu May 14, 2020 6:52 pm

Thanks for that KT, well spotted. Amusing they reckon people are scaredy-cats and can't camp alone :smile: . Maybe that's why they think things aren't "straightforward". But if the other person was one of your household I can't see what difference it makes that the house is made of nylon.

Anyway, them's the rules, so there we go for now.

edit: if you go on a camping holiday but have to come home at night, how is it a camping holiday? They must have been reading about our gardenpacking activities.
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

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Richard G
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Richard G » Thu May 14, 2020 6:56 pm

redefined_cycles wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 6:51 pm
Only cos (most common sense folk) you'd ride to your limit
I'm deeply wounded by your comment! :sad:

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Thu May 14, 2020 9:02 pm

Cumbria Police getting interestingly specific on their Farcebook page. Must've been following our (oh alright, my) witterings Here :smile: .

"Important information for those thinking of visiting Cumbria. Stopping overnight is against the current regulations. Overnight stays awqy from home are not permitted under Coronavirus Regulations, this includes wildcamping. Any members of the public who sees this or encounters problems with such activities should notify the appropriate landowner... or the police and let them deal with this rather than taking any other action".

A lot of replies are asking where "The Regulations" actually forbid it.

Oh, and it should be "members.....see" not "members......sees" :wink: .
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

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Richard G
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Richard G » Thu May 14, 2020 9:14 pm

Isn't wildcamping technically illegal anyway?

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by sean_iow » Thu May 14, 2020 9:15 pm

RIP wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:02 pm
A lot of replies are asking where "The Regulations" actually forbid it.
This is the thing, the actual regulations (The Act) are so vaguely written it doesn't really ban much outdoor activity. You may leave your home to exercise, but it doesn't specify the type, duration, how you get to that activity etc. etc.

It doesn't even say physical exercise so if you wanted to take your chances in the courts you could interpret that as mental exercise and head out for a game of chess :wink:

Copied from the Act, justifiable reason to leave your home

(b)to take exercise, either alone or with other members of their household
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Thu May 14, 2020 9:31 pm

As you know I'm just letting off steam here, and exploring what's going on from the BP perspective. I actually feel mega-guilty every time I leave the house to go shopping. And the V-WRT was a hyper-guilt trip - I kept disappearing into hedges and things every time I saw anyone! My lass is at Sheffield kids hospital and my lad's missus is a doc at Llantrisant and Cardiff hospitals so I get the real info too :sad: .
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Thu May 14, 2020 9:32 pm

Richard G wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:14 pm
Isn't wildcamping technically illegal anyway?

SSSSSHhhhhhhh!!!!! :wink:
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

voodoo_simon
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by voodoo_simon » Thu May 14, 2020 9:38 pm

Is it
A) Wild camping is illegal
B) Wild camping isn’t legal ??


*im trying to be clever...

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by sean_iow » Thu May 14, 2020 9:42 pm

RIP wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:31 pm
I actually feel mega-guilty every time I leave the house
I get that. I have to shout to my elderly neighbors (who are always doing their gardens) that I'm just off to my Mum's (1 mile up the road) to pick up her shopping list, check she's ok etc. so they don't think I'm going out more than once a day riding. As I wear the same riding clothes to do that as I would on any ride so they might think I'm off enjoying myself, the corner shop have got used to my lycra now :wink:
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger

Lazarus
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Lazarus » Thu May 14, 2020 9:45 pm

Saying the current guidelines dont allow you to do something thing that was illgeal before them is just a statement of the obvious. Its not like they were going to say lockdown rules now permit the previously "illegal act" of wild camping.

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by RIP » Thu May 14, 2020 9:48 pm

voodoo_simon wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:38 pm
Is it
A) Wild camping is illegal
B) Wild camping isn’t legal ??


*im trying to be clever...
and succeeding :smile: .
"My God, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

"It is in the petty details, not in the great results, that the interest of existence lies" - JKJ

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster

slarge
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by slarge » Thu May 14, 2020 10:10 pm

I always thought that the law in this country allows you to do stuff unless the law says you can't.....

So, whilst there might not be express permission for wild camping, there's a lot of places where it is not forbidden (open moorland, country parks (see the byelaws) etc etc).

But then if you arrive late, leave early, don't make a fuss or leave signs who will ever know.....

Lazarus
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Lazarus » Thu May 14, 2020 10:19 pm

not quite as their is both illegal and unlawful

Illegal = Not allowed by law - eg murder theft etc
Unlawful = not permitted by law/authorised - eg wild camping

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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by redefined_cycles » Fri May 15, 2020 5:06 am

Richard G wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:56 pm
redefined_cycles wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 6:51 pm
Only cos (most common sense folk) you'd ride to your limit
I'm deeply wounded by your comment! :sad:
Lol... erm. I forgot about you and Lazarus. Erm... I'm only riding 10 milers mtbing and ensure I go super duper slow when come back on the downhills :-bd sorry man... But you are a maniac being faster/fast as Ian Barrington :lol:

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Richard G
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by Richard G » Fri May 15, 2020 11:54 am

Not any more I aint. lol

boxelder
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Re: If we close up for a bit...

Post by boxelder » Sun May 17, 2020 4:54 pm

Would you not agree that not going bike packing at the moment is more about causing people anxiety? Whatever the legal basis, there'll be loads of folk will get wound up by seeing you (sod 'em, some will say). It would probably damage the public perception of 'us' (we'll all be seen through the same filter). Others may see you doing it (in your very considered, risk averse and sensible way) and justify packing the car with disposable tent and barbecue - "because he/she was doing it"

The Cumbria Police FB post re: wild camping was more about vehicles parking up I think - they've been ticketing, although they are probably concerned about tents too.
If you rode and slept overnight somewhere where you know no-one would be aware and/or you knew the landowner didn't mind, there's less of an issue.

Just thinking aloud here, with a pinch of Devil's advocate, but I don't think it's about legality/lawfulness etc, it's a decision for each individual based on circumstances. Do we all play everything else to the letter of the law? In the car do we drive at 60mph everywhere because that's allowed? Are there times when we ride footpaths, because it's causing no-one any hassle? Conversely, do we drive to conditions and avoid bridleways if they're going to get damaged?

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