Salsa go SS Gravel.

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Lazarus
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by Lazarus »

But are they plain gauge pipe with fancy carbon forks, adjustable dropouts, internal routing and so on?
nah its straightout a foreign owned factory just like the salsa ones but with less marketting-i meant that as a joke but its probably true

Do like their drop out idea mind and I do also own a Salsa bike but it was not bought new so it was a decent price but still the most expensive bike i own - I never buy new [except forks]
wriggles
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by wriggles »

Sh!t the bed £1200 for an alu frame is bonkers!

I am a big Salsa fan having owned a Mukluk, el mariachi, Fargo in the past. My 2016 Fargo frame and carbon fork was £700 new and I thought that expensive, but their prices now are just silly.
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whitestone
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by whitestone »

wriggles wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:57 pm Sh!t the bed £1200 for an alu frame is bonkers!

I am a big Salsa fan having owned a Mukluk, el mariachi, Fargo in the past. My 2016 Fargo frame and carbon fork was £700 new and I thought that expensive, but their prices now are just silly.
You forgot the matching carbon fibre fork :wink:

Just looked at Alpkit's offerings, £1200 gets you a complete bike - https://alpkit.com/collections/sonder-c ... -hydraulic one degree steeper HA & SA and an alloy fork but not that different otherwise. A pity you can't spec the carbon fork that comes on the titanium version.
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fatbikephil
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by fatbikephil »

Aye thats affy steep, as is the gearing (unlike the hill that the average rider would be able to get this up)
I guess there isn't much choice for SS gravel bikes (or is there?) but the concept is good. I SS'ed my straggler for this winter (36/18) and it is a good thing. Despite Surly also suffering from the shi*e exchange rate, they are still reasonable value and much more idiot proof.
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by jameso »

There is all the layers of margin in their route to market, ie factory>QBP>US retailers or UK distributor>UK retailers>us but even so, that RRP is in $ for the US market.

Route to market for Waltly is factory direct to consumer, for Alpkit or Pinnacle/Evans its factory>retailer>us, each layer adds a chunk of margin so clear why it's hard to make money from a traditionally distributed bike brand now. Or why Jones loop bars are silly money and the PX bar comes in at ?£30.

I like the gold finish though :grin:
Fat tyre kicker
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by Fat tyre kicker »

Expensive maybe but good to see them evolving still as a brand,
Personally think they've been a bit stale recently apart from the
Cargo blackborrow ( which I'd love), my Mukluk is still a great piece
Of kit, their social media skills are up there, just hope they listen to
The end user ?
ScotRoutes
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by ScotRoutes »

I think they probably are listening to the end users, it's just that they're not the folk who tend to inhabit this forum. If they've identified a lucrative market then you can't blame them for chasing it. They are a business and in it to make money after all. It's the disconnect between that and their marketing image that maybe grates on me most.

FWIW I've owned a Salsa and worked in a shop that sold quite a few. Around 10-11 years ago their prices seemed more reasonable. They jumped up very quickly after that - partially, I think, because they were struggling to keep up with demand and realised they could just charge more.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

I think they probably are listening to the end users, it's just that they're not the folk who tend to inhabit this forum.
There's a lot of folk here who do ride Salsa, so surely they are potential customers and ripe for buying another? After all, it's far easier to keep a present customer than it is to bring a new one onboard. Alienating existing customers is never good business practice.
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ScotRoutes
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by ScotRoutes »

Aye, but it depends on how much they are willing to pay. Lots of companies move "upmarket" as they evolve.
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by wriggles »

Good review as always from Guitar Ted
Now I think many people will be a bit let down that this wasn’t a steel frame. It would appear that steel is not compatible with the Class 5 VRS System. It may have made this frame heavier had it been rendered in steel. You also may be thinking titanium, but keep in mind that during the Warbird’s development, Salsa engineers told us that even the aluminum Warbird with Class 5 VRS was more compliant than the titanium version of that bike.
Class 5 VRS is the lack of bridging between stays apparently

https://www.ridinggravel.com/gravel-bik ... peed-bike/
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johnnystorm
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by johnnystorm »

wriggles wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:38 pm Good review as always from Guitar Ted
Now I think many people will be a bit let down that this wasn’t a steel frame. It would appear that steel is not compatible with the Class 5 VRS System. It may have made this frame heavier had it been rendered in steel. You also may be thinking titanium, but keep in mind that during the Warbird’s development, Salsa engineers told us that even the aluminum Warbird with Class 5 VRS was more compliant than the titanium version of that bike.
Class 5 VRS is the lack of bridging between stays apparently

https://www.ridinggravel.com/gravel-bik ... peed-bike/
Class 5 VRS features a lack of bridges, as opposed to being the lack of bridges. The chainstays are shaped to bend upwards and the seat stays are designed to bow outwards. Some fancy forming/shaping going on.
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GregMay
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by GregMay »

FWIW, as someone who has donned the Salsa kit for many years at races in the past, I like the concept, it's right on brand, it's an option I'd like. However, I'm not so sure on the pricetag. Or the dropouts. Colour is lovely though :)

I'll be sticking to my converted Ti Fargo for SS gravel duties for now.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

This has played on my mind this afternoon, no it has really and I thought ... if a group of (mainly) middle aged bikepackers, a fair few of whom have a reasonable amount of disposable income and in the main aren't shy of spending decent sums of money on nice things aren't the target market, then who is? I'd have thought we'd be the prime candidates for just about everything Salsa produce?
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FLV
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by FLV »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:32 pm This has played on my mind this afternoon, no it has really and I thought ... if a group of (mainly) middle aged bikepackers, a fair few of whom have a reasonable amount of disposable income and in the main aren't shy of spending decent sums of money on nice things aren't the target market, then who is? I'd have thought we'd be the prime candidates for just about everything Salsa produce?
Quite possibly, but in my opinion there's a limit. I personally feel that limits been pushing since their steel frames (QBP) went up from in the region of 550 / 599 to now 800 quid for a 4130 frame set. I originally saw the products as simple, value, long lasting but that's not the case anymore for me personally.
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benp1
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by benp1 »

Great concept, spicy pricing

Mind you, all the Salsa stuff is pricy. Surly not cheap either.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Quite possibly, but in my opinion there's a limit. I personally feel that limits been pushing since their steel frames (QBP) went up from in the region of 550 / 599 to now 800 quid for a 4130 frame set. I originally saw the products as simple, value, long lasting but that's not the case anymore for me personally.
That's my whole point Dave. Earlier Colin said that perhaps it wasn't aimed at the type of people who likely frequent his place but if that's the case, I honestly can't figure out who the target market for it is. I'd have thought that 'we' would be Salsa's market?
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by Jamesh »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:17 pm
Quite possibly, but in my opinion there's a limit. I personally feel that limits been pushing since their steel frames (QBP) went up from in the region of 550 / 599 to now 800 quid for a 4130 frame set. I originally saw the products as simple, value, long lasting but that's not the case anymore for me personally.
That's my whole point Dave. Earlier Colin said that perhaps it wasn't aimed at the type of people who likely frequent his place but if that's the case, I honestly can't figure out who the target market for it is. I'd have thought that 'we' would be Salsa's market?
As most things qbp I get the impression 'we' would be the target market if we were based over the pond, and with this number rode lots of things like Dirty Kanza and told the world via instagram about it.
Still as a concept I like it, but have an old AC nature boy for these kind of activities
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by wriggles »

Jamesh wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:58 pm
Still as a concept I like it, but have an old AC nature boy for these kind of activities
You have a nature boy as well?? :shock: :lol:
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by ScotRoutes »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:17 pm
Quite possibly, but in my opinion there's a limit. I personally feel that limits been pushing since their steel frames (QBP) went up from in the region of 550 / 599 to now 800 quid for a 4130 frame set. I originally saw the products as simple, value, long lasting but that's not the case anymore for me personally.
That's my whole point Dave. Earlier Colin said that perhaps it wasn't aimed at the type of people who likely frequent his place but if that's the case, I honestly can't figure out who the target market for it is. I'd have thought that 'we' would be Salsa's market?
I doubt they're aimed at #ditchsleepers :cool:

As I said above, in my time trying to sell Salsas the one thing you could almost guarantee was that delivery dates would slip/be cancelled as the stock destined for Europe was diverted to the US domestic marketplace. They really could sell everything they made, so putting up the price was a no-brainer. That £550 to £800 is about right. Even in 2012, the Ti El Mariachi frame was £1,500 at trade, that's why I had Justin Burls run up a similar, but custom, frame for me and it only cost £1,050 (Dave B has it now). I might not be short of a bob or two but I'm not profligate with my money and I don't believe in paying for a badge. However, there are folk who will buy into the whole marketing thing and not consider the cost to be so outrageous. If there's enough of them, the prices will never drop. We've been through some of these things before on BB - cost of event entry, paying for bikepacking "courses", even the regular dig at Crikey, how much/Pannier and the whole #mugdangler scene.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

I doubt they're aimed at #ditchsleepers :cool:

As I said above, in my time trying to sell Salsas the one thing you could almost guarantee was that delivery dates would slip/be cancelled as the stock destined for Europe was diverted to the US domestic marketplace. They really could sell everything they made, so putting up the price was a no-brainer. That £550 to £800 is about right. Even in 2012, the Ti El Mariachi frame was £1,500 at trade, that's why I had Justin Burls run up a similar, but custom, frame for me and it only cost £1,050 (Dave B has it now). I might not be short of a bob or two but I'm not profligate with my money and I don't believe in paying for a badge. However, there are folk who will buy into the whole marketing thing and not consider the cost to be so outrageous. If there's enough of them, the prices will never drop. We've been through some of these things before on BB - cost of event entry, paying for bikepacking "courses", even the regular dig at Criky, how much/Pannier and the whole #mugdangler scene.
Ahh mugdanglers - why did no one just say that :wink:
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FLV
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by FLV »

It all fits together now :-bd
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johnnystorm
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by johnnystorm »

Looking at the conditions from this year's Midsouth I confidently predict that 90% of next year's entrants will be on Stormchasers. :lol:
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psling
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by psling »

I bought a brand new Il Pompino (no sniggering at the back now) some years ago for about £300 - that's full ss specific dropped bar steel framed bike. A not dissimilar bike.
I have also spent considerably more than that Salsa costs on a custom ss bike back in 2003 which I still ride regularly (indeed, three times this week already).

I wouldn't buy that Salsa at that price now because there are equally good alternatives for a better value price but I never begrudge anyone choosing to spend their money how they want.
Having said that, things have certainly progressed since the Il Pompino but again, having said that, the Il Pompino was one of my favourite bikes to ride ever!
Who'd be in marketing when everyone wants something different and puts different values on spending, eh!!
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voodoo_simon
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by voodoo_simon »

What was the deal a few years ago that Salsa offered?

Didn't they give you a full sus fat bike with every gravel bike purchased or something like that?

Edit : Trek Chekpoint at £800 - although it does mean you own a Trek :shock:

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psling
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Re: Salsa go SS Gravel.

Post by psling »

Mmmm. I also have a Trek ss. A nice root beer 69er. Fantastic bike 😀
We go out into the hills to lose ourselves, not to get lost. You are only lost if you need to be somewhere else and if you really need to be somewhere else then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with.
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