Why can't companies like Red Bull just f*ck off. Their loss could only be an advantage to the world in so many ways.

https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/best-wild ... 07vVRXldHs

I agree...

However, adding the link will only result in more traffic to their web site ( I took a peek), which is all they are bothered about, as it will improve their search engine rankings, domain authority etc...

They certainly don't give a monkey's **se about the environment, that's for sure.

They exist only to make themselves money from sweetened fizzy water.



Si

However, adding the link will only result in more traffic to their web site ( I took a peek), which is all they are bothered about, as it will improve their search engine rankings, domain authority etc...

I'll admit, that did cross my mind Si but figured a few of us peeping wouldn't alter things much.

Number 7 looks more like car camping to me.

Taylor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:04 pm Number 7 looks more like car camping to me.

Spotted that too, camp site maybe?

Yes number 7 is one of those blasted great twin-room mansion tents isn't it!

Still, give them their due Stu - it said "coffee brews over your camp stove".

"Ellie Ross, August 2018" - fairweather bivvier then .

I just fail to see how anyone thinks publishing a list of wildcamping spots is in anyway a sensible thing to do. In my mind it shows that they've little understanding and even less regard for the whole thing. Hopefully they'll get bored and return to pushing their liquid diabetes via another medium quickly.

I think we needn't worry.

The last thing their viewers would do is chill out and relax wild camping somewhere.

Downhill race watching and red bull drinking types wouldn't fancy getting out of their comfort zone too much for us to worry

I think Ellie might be a #influencer

Frankly anyone who's reading the Red Bull website and is willing to drag bikes/camping gear/arses up Carneddau/Glenfeshie etc is just as entitled to do so as anyone who reads this website. Is there maybe a hint a of snobbery to imply that isn't the case?

John I suspect you may be seriously underestimating the number of people on here who are partial to being silly on full sussers, watching DH racing and drinking Red Bull's finest, particularly when combined with a little Alpine je ne sais quoi

In Reverse wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:07 pm
Frankly anyone who's reading the Red Bull website and is willing to drag bikes/camping gear/arses up Carneddau/Glenfeshie etc is just as entitled to do so as anyone who reads this website. Is there maybe a hint a of snobbery to imply that isn't the case?

I think the hint is in the name; WILD camping. It ain't gonna be wild for long if that becomes a ticklist of 8 particular camp spots. I guess this is much like the Bothy argument - should the locations remain a secret or should they be widely published?

ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:12 pm

In Reverse wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:07 pm
Frankly anyone who's reading the Red Bull website and is willing to drag bikes/camping gear/arses up Carneddau/Glenfeshie etc is just as entitled to do so as anyone who reads this website. Is there maybe a hint a of snobbery to imply that isn't the case?

I think the hint is in the name; WILD camping. It ain't gonna be wild for long if that becomes a ticklist of 8 particular camp spots. I guess this is much like the Bothy argument - should the locations remain a secret or should they be widely published?

One of those WILD camp spots is "Black Mountains, Brecon Beacons", an area which includes the busiest MTB attraction in the UK. Another is a 25km stretch of the Cairngorms Loop, a bikepacking route which attracts several hundred riders a year and has been shared all over the internet, not least on a website cryptically called "www.cairngormsloop.net". Another is the second highest peak in Wales. Another is "The Cheviots, Northumberland" which must be well over a thousand square km. And so on.

I'll say again - there's a whiff of snobbery (and hypocrisy)to assume disaster will befall these places because of an 18 month old puff piece on Red Bull's website, when people are regularly posting pics/Strava links/descriptions/whatever to their bivvy spots in the BaM thread and wherever else on here and that's considered to be just fine.

Personally fwiw I think it's all fine. If people want to get out and camp in the great outdoors then good for them. As with everything else the number of people who are dicks/irresponsible about it is thankfully tiny and they're vastly outnumbered by the people who want to look after the countryside.

I just fail to see how anyone thinks publishing a list of wildcamping spots is in anyway a sensible thing to do

TBH if you need helpin finding the countryside I fear for you but as scots notes its hardly given away any secrets or useful info.

Use is always that balance between wanting others to do it but not enough to either bump into loads or ruin it for us - a tricky cunundrum

Lazarus wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:26 am TBH if you need helpin finding the countryside I fear for you

How’s it different to the regular requests for bivi spot or route ideas on here?

lune ranger wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:00 am

Lazarus wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:26 am TBH if you need helpin finding the countryside I fear for you

How’s it different to the regular requests for bivi spot or route ideas on here?

On one level, not very, but hopefully such locations are handed over via PMs or email rather than publicly. It's that last word that's the key, it's not just *us* that can read these forums - everyone from those dipping their toes in the water to those who have no intention of clearing up after themselves to landowners and their agents. Of course attitudes to "unusual" activities varies from farmer to farmer and more broadly from area to area, I imagine the South East is considerably different to Mid-Wales for example.

When the 2001 Foot and Mouth crisis started I was still climbing and there was naturally a huge thread on the matter. Of course there were the usual cries of "just go on the crags anyway", in particular one near us. At that point the estate manager on which the crag lay posted on the forum to explain the situation.

I can understand those who haven't bivvied out before that actually finding a location is a major hurdle even before the practicalities of spending a night out so a PM would be in order but then: "give a man a fish and he'll feed for a day. Teach him how to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime".

If a bear shits in the woods it's not really a problem, if a hundred bears sub standard there then it's already a problem.

How’s it different to the regular requests for bivi spot or route ideas on here?

While there's certainly requests for route info, there's very few requests for overnight spots and nearly all that appear are dealt with by way of PM or email rather than openly.

I genuinely apologise if anyone sees any form of snobbery or double standards because that wasn't the intention. However, I feel a duty to help protect the great outdoors and at times, it can be a difficult juggling act and something which doesn't bring universal favour. That's something I won't apologise for.

whitestone wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:20 am

lune ranger wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:00 am

Lazarus wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:26 am TBH if you need helpin finding the countryside I fear for you

How’s it different to the regular requests for bivi spot or route ideas on here?

On one level, not very, but hopefully such locations are handed over via PMs or email rather than publicly. It's that last word that's the key, it's not just *us* that can read these forums - everyone from those dipping their toes in the water to those who have no intention of clearing up after themselves to landowners and their agents.

*us*
Kind of sums up what *we* think of *others* in here sometimes.
*us* is a few thousand registered users and any number of unregistered lurkers.
Granted not as many who may stumble across an article on RedBull.com.
But *us* are not an homogeneous group who have signed a code of countryside conduct.
*we* just happened to have signed up for this site.
Yes reading what goes on here should influence those aren’t aware of how to behave in a positive way. It does not guarantee it. Just as reading and article on RedBull means folks will go around skidding, sh1tting, and pulling down walls.
Sometimes the traffic on here reminds me of how *we* were viewed by some sections of the outdoor community in the early days of mountain biking.

The *us* wasn't an exclusivity statement, rather that we aren't. These forums are open, we're "actors upon a stage" as it were, we just don't know who the audience is. There's just as much chance for them to be "better" than me as there is "worse", I don't hold any preconceptions or prejudices on that score.

Back in the 1980s in the Lakes we'd park up at road heads to make it easier to get to crags, a mile or two less walking would mean that you could get to otherwise remote crags for an evening after work. Go there now and there are "no parking" signs and markings. Whose fault is it? Mine and my mates and all the others that parked there. Sorry. There was no malice or intent to cause trouble, indeed no-one to my knowledge ever complained to those parking yet the "facility" is lost.

I don't think Bob's comments were devisive Luke but they can easily be made to appear so.

Personally, I think it all comes down to education and trying to convey a message. You'll always get those elements of society who'll choose to ignore any message and will convey themselves with a selfish 'f*ck them' attitude but in my mind everyone who's encouraging people 'out there' has a very real duty to try and convey the correct meassage while doing so. I come in for a certain amount of flak for this and it doesn't win you any popularity awards but what's the alternative?

That 'best practice' message often seems to be lacking and it's that lack of guidance that upsets me. Don't for a minute think that the likes of Red Bull have got your best interests at heart.

Not really read the article on my phone but I’d be more inclined to do so if she’d written something herself rather than just linked to social
media pages, has she even been to the top 8 or just picked them out her armchair?

Running an outdoors site myself I can appreciate the struggle between wanting to tell the world how cool and adventurous we are and where we’ve been, but at the same time trying to keep those places special, and not trashed or over utilised.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:19 am I don't think Bob's comments were devisive Luke but they can easily be made to appear so.

Personally, I think it all comes down to education and trying to convey a message. You'll always get those elements of society who'll choose to ignore any message and will convey themselves with a selfish 'f*ck them' attitude but in my mind everyone who's encouraging people 'out there' has a very real duty to try and convey the correct meassage while doing so. I come in for a certain amount of flak for this and it doesn't win you any popularity awards but what's the alternative?

That 'best practice' message often seems to be lacking and it's that lack of guidance that upsets me. Don't for a minute think that the likes of Red Bull have got your best interests at heart.

I agree that Bob probably didn’t intend to be devisive but using *we* in such conversations can, as you say, be taken that way. Sometimes you need a devils advocate to examine yourself thoroughly.
I certainly don’t think RedBull has anyone’s best interest at heart, save their shareholders/owners. I also hope #bikepacking is dropped by companies and influencers as quickly as they picked it up to wring the profit from it.
I wholeheartedly agree that best practice should be promoted and applaud you (Stu) and the many regular contributors here for doing so even if we end up looking like grumpy old b’stards who want to take our ball back because we were here first!

JohnClimber wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:36 pm
Downhill race watching ..... types wouldn't fancy getting out of their comfort zone too much for us to worry

Edited to remove the drinking bit. But speak for yourself John and reel your neck in, stop making OTT assumptions.

I've been watching, and ex-racing DH since late 90s, for a long, long time. I've also spent a lot more time than most people out of my comfort zone. Don't assume that those who enjoy all facets of our sport are the same.

Lots of folk need to start somewhere when it comes to their experiences in the outdoors. Just because it doesn't fit your opinion of what is correct doesn't make it wrong.

Not condoning the article or inclusion of any form of advertising of "wild" camping. Nor have I clicked it for the reasons of search listing above - every click does count annoyingly.

us and them is never a good thing.
I am all for live and let live.
if you feel a place will be spoiled by someone writing about it, you may be surprised that it isn't. I find that the type of folk who take the effort to reach somewhere out of the way, are not the type to spoil.

How exactly do you define "the best"?

If a definition is 'remote, quiet and uncrowded with spectacular views' (which appears to be an aspirational requirement) then it's pretty counter-productive to list that place as a destination in a 'best of...' list.
The above list does seem to consist of insta-destinations rather than places along the way. In my experience some of the "best" spots I've overnighted just happen along the way; I'd probably be unable to list a lot of them!
Besides, some of the "best" spots listed in the link would be horrendous in a howling gale or cloud white-out!

Best wildcamping spot, best beach, best trail, best event, best kit, best whatever - we do seem to like a list, don't we. Or do we...?

I find that the type of folk who take the effort to reach somewhere out of the way, are not the type to spoil.

The number of trashed bothies, fires left to burn in peat and trash left lying around indicates otherwise.

Is it panda time?