Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

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Chicken Legs
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Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Chicken Legs » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:54 pm

This podcast is worth a listen if you're interested in Jay Petervary and the Tour Divide


https://gearjunkie.com/podcast/jay-petervary
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by composite » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:18 am

At the danger of rehashing discussions from last summer that no doubt went on during the TD when I was wasn't around, I'm going to bite.
  • For someone who has a number of accusations of cheating against him, to say that winning is just not important to him beggars belief.
  • When he was talking about the start of the smartphone era and people being able to see the tracker pages.
    "What other sport do you know where your competitors are at?.. its ridiculous"
    Errrr... well in almost every sport you know exactly where your competitors are. WTF? I'm struggling to even think of one where you don't?
The guy paints himself as such a martyr for the sport, I just couldn't listen to the second half.

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Escape Goat » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:01 am

Many thanks indeed for the link. He's not my favorite person in the sport, but will give it a listen :)
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Shewie » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:23 am

I listened to most of it last night

A lot of he said this and she said that, all a bit handbags at ten paces I thought. I suspect both parties regret saying some of the things they did.

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:25 am

Combining ego, money and prestige is never usually a good mixture.

I also don't think anyone should consider themselves to be an ambassador for bikepacking as it implies that you speak on behalf of everybody and that your views are universal. Obviously you can be a brand ambassador and speak on behalf of a company but that didn't work out too well in this instance did it? :wink:

'Bad Boy' ... well, you're just like millions of others.
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by whitestone » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:37 am

Shewie wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:23 am
I listened to most of it last night

A lot of he said this and she said that, all a bit handbags at ten paces I thought. I suspect both parties regret saying some of the things they did.
As my dad would say: "it takes two to argue"
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by sean_iow » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:59 am

I've never been a fan of Jay P but having listened to that he came across quite well
composite wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:18 am
Errrr... well in almost every sport you know exactly where your competitors are. WTF? I'm struggling to even think of one where you don't?
He's coming from an ultra background so in that you wouldn't know where your competitors were unless they were in sight which is how I interpreted it. It does change the dynamic and the way you would race. In ultra running races they will turn their headlights off at night if there's someone catching so other competitions don't know how far ahead they are and also vice-versa.

As for the whole TD film thing, as he says the rules are quite clear, they're on the website. Lots of Lael's supporters got upset as it's 'just a film' but it's specifically in the rules as not allowed. If we take what he said about it at face value then he's perhaps got more fall-out than deserved.

If it had been Alexandra pointing out that Lael was asking for the rules to be changed for her would it have been as controversial? Or if it had been Josh Kato making the film and Jay P pointed it out? But as it was Jay P (a man) calling out Lael (a woman) then people went off on a tangent about all sorts of other perceived discrimination which I don't think was the case.
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Shewie » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:15 am

Wasn’t Josh Ibbett making a film on the same TDR, I missed all the hoo-ha in the summer so not sure if that got picked up

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by sean_iow » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:20 am

Shewie wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:15 am
Wasn’t Josh Ibbett making a film on the same TDR, I missed all the hoo-ha in the summer so not sure if that got picked up
He did also make a film, but din't mention it beforehand. It only came to light during the race. I would guess that seeing what happened with Jay P no one wanted to get involved in making a stand due to the fall out?
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:21 am

On the subject of filming ... as Dave proved, it's possible to produce a TD film that's both enjoyable to watch and doesn't in anyway infringe on the rules. Sadly, sponsors want something more polished* and that is where the trouble arises. The bottom line is that the whole thing comes down to money.
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*That's actually a compliment Dave.
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by jameso » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:17 pm

He's coming from an ultra background so in that you wouldn't know where your competitors were unless they were in sight which is how I interpreted it. It does change the dynamic and the way you would race. In ultra running races they will turn their headlights off at night if there's someone catching so other competitions don't know how far ahead they are and also vice-versa.
I need to listen to this one, I have my own thoughts on all this :grin: GDR rules - ban phones and race on instinct. imho.

One thing you can say about Jay Petervary is he's experienced and motivated beyond most and on that basis I have a lot of respect for him. He seems to just roll up and be at the front of anything he likes the look of these days. Tough competitor/rider. Generally I don't need to agree with everything someone says or does to recognise excellence in one area. There is a tipping point... but I don't think we're talking about anything negative as extreme as that here (and isn't that the topic)

Agree with Stu also, being an ambassador is probably like being a leader with power, something people should put onto those who don't really want to be one. But this is just riding bikes, call yourself an ambassador or influencer if you like. We probably tend to find influence in people whatever they call themselves, or not.

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by jameso » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:20 pm

#MakeBikepackingShitAgain :wink:
#Fu(k Trump and his slogans being boosted and normalised into daily conversations.

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by redefined_cycles » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:24 pm

composite wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:18 am
At the danger of rehashing discussions from last summer that no doubt went on during the TD when I was wasn't around, I'm going to bite.
  • For someone who has a number of accusations of cheating against him, to say that winning is just not important to him beggars belief.
  • When he was talking about the start of the smartphone era and people being able to see the tracker pages.
    "What other sport do you know where your competitors are at?.. its ridiculous"
    Errrr... well in almost every sport you know exactly where your competitors are. WTF? I'm struggling to even think of one where you don't?
The guy paints himself as such a martyr for the sport, I just couldn't listen to the second half.
I startwd listening. Then at 16ish minutes I paused it and it wouldn't let me (thankfully) start off from where I left of. Phew

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:45 pm

#Fu(k Trump and his slogans being boosted and normalised into daily conversations.
In fairness, I think he stole it, so I stole it back.
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Lazarus » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 pm

But as it was Jay P (a man) calling out Lael (a woman) then people went off on a tangent about all sorts of other perceived discrimination which I don't think was the case.
i think most people said that if you wanted someone to defend standards/ethics and speak up for integrity you would not pick him to do it- not least because he has bent the rules[ the wind sail] and made a TD video

Then again i dont do social media so i assume that was full of the usual crap that any isue brings up

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by sean_iow » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:42 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 pm
i think most people said that if you wanted someone to defend standards/ethics and speak up for integrity you would not pick him to do it- not least because he has bent the rules[ the wind sail] and made a TD video
I thought that but have you listened to the podcast?

If he is to be believed then the sail and video have been taken out of context.

The sail was an umbrella he was carrying for shelter/shade which he was mucking about with and having a laugh, it kept blowing inside-out and didn't help. The film he claims was made by someone who contacted him days before he started his ITT and who then met him (not prearranged) on route as he lived nearby and then also surprised him again further down the route. I'll have to watch the film to see if that's how it looks.

I thought at the time it was a bit 'pot calling the kettle black' but there seems to be more to it. I can see how he could of rubbed someone up the wrong way and then they've had a vendetta against him, he's very much a marmite character.
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by jameso » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:40 pm

In fairness, I think he stole it, so I stole it back.
That would be a good IP theft case : ) Teflon Don seems to have an ability to shrug off court cases though. His lawyer was the NY mafia's lawyer back when he was building hotels there. Nice little triangle of influence. Anyway.. I'm OT.

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by composite » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:41 pm

sean_iow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:59 am
He's coming from an ultra background so in that you wouldn't know where your competitors were unless they were in sight which is how I interpreted it. It does change the dynamic and the way you would race. In ultra running races they will turn their headlights off at night if there's someone catching so other competitions don't know how far ahead they are and also vice-versa.
That may have been what he meant and in that context, OK. My comment was taking the actual words he said at face value.
sean_iow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:59 am
As for the whole TD film thing, as he says the rules are quite clear, they're on the website. Lots of Lael's supporters got upset as it's 'just a film' but it's specifically in the rules as not allowed. If we take what he said about it at face value then he's perhaps got more fall-out than deserved.

If it had been Alexandra pointing out that Lael was asking for the rules to be changed for her would it have been as controversial? Or if it had been Josh Kato making the film and Jay P pointed it out? But as it was Jay P (a man) calling out Lael (a woman) then people went off on a tangent about all sorts of other perceived discrimination which I don't think was the case.
The rules are the rules and that is fair enough but his self-righteousness about those rules considering the film I linked even exists, is difficult to swallow.

EDIT: Just saw your post about the end of the podcast that I couldn't listen to any more so I could keep my bile under control. I didn't hear his defence of the video or the sail.

Even if you cross those off the list there is still quite a few other allegations which again just makes it difficult to listen to the picture he is so keen to paint of himself. http://lacemine29.blogspot.com/2015/10/ ... rvary.html


As a separate point I totally agree with Stu about trying to speak for the community. He even makes out that "someone like him" has a duty to. Do me a favour.

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Lazarus » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:33 pm

have you listened to the podcast?
I never claimed my opinion was informed :wink:


I think he comes across as an old school guy who just wants to keep the tour/sport special and too its roots. He hates the sponsorship and professionalism and thinks it shuld be just you v the route - which is essentially what we all do I assume. I think he also comes across as the kind of person who will rub many people up the wrong way which may explain the vitroil, well that and Laels mass appeal , and the one sided reports, as he notes.

I dont think lael , or her partner, comes out of this or the tour well and she should have just done an ITT and filmed that .

EDIT: Dont think trial by socila media[ and yet more links - no offence] here is helpful. Which is true?
he used a sail or he was messing wiht an umbrella?
He was filmed - it was chance and during an ITT
He used a snowmobile- his wife was there and denies it
etc
There is no proof just folk we dont really know throwing accusations and JP defending himself.

i dont know him but he seem incredibly keen on the nature and origins of the sport , you alone as in out of contact and solo wih no support emmotional or practical His origins is self supported ultrasand he is railing aginst modernity and change even mobile phones. He dislikes the change from personal challenges to races and now professional racers [ which i ssume is a fair description of Lael]. I get his point but everything is change and trying to resist the change is futile. Perhaps we should just leave the tour divide as the last true version - it wont happen.

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:49 pm

Does the Great Divide race still happen? That was truely ITT.
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by sean_iow » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:51 pm

What I find most amazing out of this is that I've ended up defending Jay P :o

I nearly didn't listen to the podcast as I couldn't stand the bloke, even just the sight of his weird beard made my blood boil.

As I said, he's very much a marmite person. On which note, I've never liked marmite, perhaps I should try it again :lol:
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by redefined_cycles » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:33 pm

sean_iow wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:51 pm
What I find most amazing out of this is that I've ended up defending Jay P :o

I nearly didn't listen to the podcast as I couldn't stand the bloke, even just the sight of his weird beard made my blood boil.

As I said, he's very much a marmite person. On which note, I've never liked marmite, perhaps I should try it again :lol:
To be fair Sean... I was well impressed with your earlier comments defending him with an unbiased mind. You almost had me convinced and on the way back from work I did wonder whether I should use my little bluetooth JBL speaker (in car) to listen to the full podcast or my Quran mp3 (with a bit of youtube weather and coronovirus update by MedCram)... Thankfully Quran/weather/Cornavirus won (seems theres possibility that its plateu-ing out but thats early speculations possibly (with some graphs off course)

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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Dave Barter » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:42 pm

Helen and I listened to it together in the van. We both came to the conclusion that we felt for him if what he was saying was true. We weren’t particularly enamoured by his way of speaking but his description of the TD controversy seems to add up. I’m glad I listened to it and gave him his chance to state his case.
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by Escape Goat » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:15 pm

I listened to it with an open mind, trying to ignore my previous decision that he's at fault and Lael was a victim etc etc. I didn't like him the first time I came across him because as it's been mentioned, he's marmite. I feel that when Lael said how it happened, I was on her side, and when JP said how it happened, I wanted to side with him. It made me think, did JP explain it exactly how it happened, did Lael?

Out of the two, I'm more of a Lael fan BUT I can see where JP was coming from IF his email was how he said it was on the podcast, especially if Laels response was a lot of "justification.

I didn't like that JP mentioned how Lael scratched, "because of the mud or something, a lot of other people got through it" he kinda chose to ignore that she carried on anyway, she just scratched from the main race.

It really sounds like I can't make my mind up, but I still don't like JP and how he is. But that's who he is. Maybe if I met him...

Lastly, he loves to help people and give advice? I don't think so, I reached out to him for advice once...still waiting...I reached out to Lael, she replied.
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Re: Jay Petervary : Bikepacking's Bad Boy or Ambassador ?

Post by sean_iow » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:42 pm

I've just been reading an article about Alexandera Houchin

This was one of Lael's comments about her

“It’s @wesome she’s riding her bike, pursuing long distances, and is one of the five to ten percent of women who show up,” says Wilcox. “Alexandera’s results aren’t that @wesome,” says Wilcox. “But she’s out there riding, sharing her story, and that makes her a different kind of role model.”

Apparently being the first woman to win back to back Tour Divides and setting a new women's single speed record isn't that @wesome? Perhaps it would be better if they all just let their riding do the talking.

Apologies for the swear filter avoidance but it reads a bit strange with 'vaguely exciting' in it :smile:
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