How much of a ballache is ...

[Bearbonesnorm]

... a non-circular ITT? I started putting something together last year and have just picked it back up again. It should prove to be a nice ride but it's linier. There are decent train links at both ends but in an ITT situation I wonder if those could be swamped?

Are you put off by non-circular routes or do you just think 'be reet, I'll sort summat out'?

*yes, I could always make it a double

[Pirahna]

It's the train at the end an easy journey back to the start?

[composite]

Typical answer... it depends...

If driving to the start then I want to know it's not going to be a massive pita to get the trains back to the start or visa versa. Are the 2 locations on the same line or am I'm going to have to go out of my way to change to come back?

If it's at least a convenient train, from or to home, and I decide to do all the travel by train then being point to point rather than circular probably doesn't make much difference.

Some train companies are more bothered about enforcing bike numbers than others so that might have a bearing on how much impact the train being swamped with cyclists actually has.

Also, are they local type trains or long-distance ones? I have generally found local trains don't seem to really care but those experiences of getting a bunch of us on a single train have never been at rush hour.

[thenorthwind]

A bit, but it wouldn't completely put me off if the route was good. If travelling by car, I'd prefer to park at the finish and train to the start, which means the car's there when I finish, and there's less uncertainty about the train times, bike space, etc. I guess that does potentially mean more bikes trying to travel on the same trains though. For a group start, the organiser could arrange a big van/bike trailer for the bikes, but more hassle/expense/risk for them

[Mariner]

Are the stations manned?
How many trains per day and does the train carry bikes if so how many?
Are there restricted times when no bikes allowed?
How far in advance would you need to book the bike and how?

Basically if you fetch up at the far end station walk through the logistics of getting back.
For the purpose of the exercise assume you do not have a mobile phone.
You could always cycle back.

[ScotRoutes]

If travelling by car, I'd prefer to park at the finish and train to the start, which means the car's there when I finish, and there's less uncertainty about the train times, bike space, etc.

Very much this. The only downside is that tends to either (a) rule out an early start or (b) mean a night out before setting off.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Sadly, stations wouldn't be on the same line, so a change would be required.

For a group start, the organiser could arrange a big van/bike trailer for the bikes, but more hassle/expense/risk for them

I had considered that but it'd be too costly to run a shuttle, so the fastest would likely have to wait for the slowest to finish which might mean hanging round for a day or so.

[ScotRoutes]

Sadly, stations wouldn't be on the same line, so a change would be required.

For a group start, the organiser could arrange a big van/bike trailer for the bikes, but more hassle/expense/risk for them

I had considered that but it'd be too costly to run a shuttle, so the fastest would likely have to wait for the slowest to finish which might mean hanging round for a day or so.

Another reason to shuttle pre-start.

[middleagedmadness]

For me personally not a problem I doubt there’d be many finishing at the same time as me everybody would probably be already back

[Dave Barter]

It's massive when start and end 2741 miles apart..

But the TCW was fine for me as you could bivy at start. Maybe that is a consideration?

[ScotRoutes]

It's massive when start and end 2741 miles apart..

I'd assume that, the longer the event, the more staggered the finishing times. Thinking of something like the BB300/200, you'd have all of the overnight finishers waiting for the first morning train.

[psling]

You build it, they will come

If it's worth riding people will make their own arrangements, whether by train, vehicle at each end (obviously 2+ riders), or pick-up by friends/family. There are plenty of linear routes that riders can and do treat as ITTs (LEJOG, Trans Cambrian, Lon Las Cymru, Pennine B/way, the new Great North route, etc..) and they all get ridden.

Group start would need a lot more thought and effort but as suggested above a minibus and trailer from the end point to the start point pre-event should work (bit of a bugger though if you left something you needed in the car at the end point!!).

[ScotRoutes]

Ah. I'm maybe conflating ITT with "group start event". The former is much less problematic simply due to numbers.

LEJOG is a good example. Mostly, folk manage their own logistics (lejogstics) but larger groups organise repatriation services, right up to the multi-bus, multi-truck operation of the Deloitte RAB.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Sorry for the confusion - I do mean group start - apologies.

[Boab]

Are the stations manned?
How many trains per day and does the train carry bikes if so how many?
Are there restricted times when no bikes allowed?
How far in advance would you need to book the bike and how?

Mostly this. Having said that... I'm doing that Frontier 300, which is a coast-to-coast, I'm cycling from the finish to the start. Mostly to avoid having the wait around for their coach transfers, which would put me on the wrong side of the country for getting home, but partly as I want a big adventure. So a one-way route wouldn't stop me from signing up.

Also, most of The Racing Collective TransXxx and xxxDURO events are one way, and you're supposed to get there and back via the railways.

[sean_iow]

Also, most of The Racing Collective TransXxx and xxxDURO events are one way, and you're supposed to get there and back via the railways.

I saw that they are saying you are not allowed to drive to the events. Whist I admire the sentiments it seems to me that it's tokenism to be on-message.

I ride to work most days. Last year I only drove for about 5000 miles in total and over half of that was driving to events. Someone else who may live close to the start and good transport links might drive 15,000+ miles a year for their job. I've still got 10,000 miles of credit. Hardly seems fair?

Back to Stu's question, depends on where it is and how far it is? Will it be downhill on the way back if I choose to ride back to the start?

[pistonbroke]

Personally I much prefer linear routes, they convey a much greater sense of "going somewhere" and is the very reason behind the Spanish C2C or now Divide route I'm running. Here in Cataluña there are several events like the CAT 700 and ultra distance trail runs which bus the participants to the start from where they park at the finish. This overcomes the time delay from first to last at the finish, at least everyone leaves the start at the same time!

[Boab]

Also, most of The Racing Collective TransXxx and xxxDURO events are one way, and you're supposed to get there and back via the railways.

I saw that they are saying you are not allowed to drive to the events. Whist I admire the sentiments it seems to me that it's tokenism to be on-message.

I ride to work most days. Last year I only drove for about 5000 miles in total and over half of that was driving to events. Someone else who may live close to the start and good transport links might drive 15,000+ miles a year for their job. I've still got 10,000 miles of credit. Hardly seems fair?

I totally agree. I fancy doing the three main xxxDURO events, but the cost of the train fare there and back rules it out. I'm not made of money and already have a, fairly, economical car (one litre, three cylinder). I don't mind parking near the finish and getting the train to the start, but I'd rather a longer adventure and cycle there; which then eats into holidays, family goodwill, etc, etc. I also wouldn't say no to a bus transfer from finish to start, as part of the event, if that makes it easier and simpler for the organiser to put on.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Buses are easy to arrange, it's moving the bikes that's hard.

I recall James was talking about making the TNR a 'no fly' event (could be mistaken) but I can see why people might choose to go in that direction. Yes, it will appear unfair to those who it hinders but these routes are still there outside of the actual events. I suppose it depends which is most important to you - riding the route or doing the event?

[sean_iow]

Yes, it will appear unfair to those who it hinders

It wasn't the so much the fact that it hinders me but that it's just 'one' aspect of the entrants car usage. I ride to work in all weathers partially to reduce my car usage. This means I can 'save' my miles in the car for things which are of a priority, like driving to Wales in October to ride in the rain

It irked me that an organiser, who I'd care to bet drives more miles than me, has stipulated that I can't drive to the event so they can feel good about themselves for doing their bit for the climate crisis.

[jameso]

This -

just think 'be reet, I'll sort summat out'

I do more linear routes than loops (if we're talking about multi-day rides).

Most of the classic routes are linear and the travel to-fro is part of it all. If it risks being crowded on the train just advise people of that and let them figure it out, travel a day or so ahead and camp out, etc : )

Also, most of The Racing Collective TransXxx and xxxDURO events are one way, and you're supposed to get there and back via the railways.

I saw that they are saying you are not allowed to drive to the events. Whist I admire the sentiments it seems to me that it's tokenism to be on-message.

Tokenism or simple values? If it's a non-commercial event they're free to run it how they like and manage impact how they like inc dictating getting there and back which they may want to happen independently of your other reductions and efforts. Otherwise it's impossible for them to monitor (until we have carbon footprint monitors and rations!)

It irked me that an organiser, who I'd care to bet drives more miles than me, has stipulated that I can't drive to the event so they can feel good about themselves for doing their bit for the climate crisis.

With respect Sean it irks me a little that you assume to know his driving habits or motivations and aren't seeing the event as an independent thing

[Bearbonesnorm]

It irked me that an organiser, who I'd care to bet drives more miles than me, has stipulated that I can't drive to the event so they can feel good about themselves for doing their bit for the climate crisis.

I do see your point Sean and to be honest, I don't really know what the answer is. Maybe the organiser assumes that everyone drives the same miles they do or maybe they they don't drive at all, I know James doesn't drive much. Perhaps they feel that driving doesn't sit well with the ethos of a cycling event and hope to spread the word, sew a seed, save the world and ultimately become the cycling equivalent of that idiot Bono?

Anyway

like driving to Wales in October to ride in the rain

thank you

[sean_iow]

With respect Sean it irks me a little that you assume to know his driving habits or motivations and aren't seeing the event as an independent thing

Apologies James, it is their event and they can run it how they like.

I do my best to reduce my impact on the planet, reduced car usage, eat less meat, I don't have any children, I've only flown to go on holiday twice in my life (once was to Iceland for a wedding anniversary and the other to Madeira to go on holiday with my terminally ill brother in-law as his wife has a timeshare there) and all but one of my bikes were second-hand. But despite all that I'm not allowed to drive to the start of a cycling event?

I assume Lachlan Morton got to and from the GBDuro by bus and train only? And his day job isn't riding a bike all around the world whilst half a dozen helicopters follow the race

[Bearbonesnorm]

I do my best to reduce my impact on the planet, reduced car usage, eat less meat, I don't have any children, I've only flown to go on holiday twice in my life (once was to Iceland for a wedding anniversary and the other to Madeira to go on holiday with my terminally ill brother in-law as his wife has a timeshare there) and all but one of my bikes were second-hand. But despite all that I'm not allowed to drive to the start of a cycling event?

Bloody hell, you're already Bono!

[jameso]

But despite all that I'm not allowed to drive to the start of a cycling event?

In this case it seems not, same for me. It's one event and their call, they can't be expected to say you're in based on a lower than av footprint but another rider isn't?

I haven't owned a car in over a decade (do hire+drive when needed) but that's not why I'm ok with Racing Collective dictating travel to their events, it's just the fact it's their event. It'd be dull if they were all the same and we shouldn't jump into assuming it's greenwashing because the organiser flew on his personal holiday (made up for the point!) etc.

I assume Lachlan Morton got to and from the GBDuro by bus and train only? And his day job isn't riding a bike all around the world whilst half a dozen helicopters follow the race

Counterview - he helped a tiny grass-roots event to get well known and now any efforts they make to get people to think about travel impact are more widely noticed? I agree, the TDF etc is a waste of resources but we don't live in a world that can be changed overnight. Mr + Mrs Thunberg might fly to a conference, doesn't undermine Jnr's message is any less valid unless you're just looking for an easy anti-position? Like charities need to spend some of what they raise to raise more, we'd judge them on the balance and gains and there's a tipping point where you'd stop donating.