Brake pad material

[ootini]

So, what's the deal?
I'm looking for pads as spares for my Arkose, which has Shimano RS405s, so I believe the pads are KO3 pads. What's the difference in performance / use between resin, metallic, sintered?

[lune ranger]

At the risk of being shot down in flames....
As I understand it:
Metallic/sintered are longer lasting but have a tendency to squeal, especially in the rain.
Resin/organic are quieter, maybe better braking but less durable.
This has certainly been my personal experience.

[Cyclepeasant]

My experience is similar, except, sintered are better in the wet and muddy conditions,ie,better bite.
Organic wear out very quickly in the muddy conditions.
However,It depends on your riding style, confidence etc.
Majority of my sintered pads last 3+ years. I have used various brands,all performed well .
Therefore,my preference is sintered,as it is for my motorcycles.

[jameso]

I get good all-round durability and smooth, quiet braking from Deore resin pads. They need getting up to a decent temp when new and bedding in well before you use them in the wet/mud though, helps the lifespan somehow.

Got a whole TNR (~17,000m +/-) and a trip across France (loaded up) from a set and they were ok for a couple of months local riding afterwards. That's much better than the semi-sintered pads I used for a couple of years before.

My experience of metal pads is more noise under braking, but I only really avoid them as I'm using cable brakes - resins run cooler afaik and that's good for a cable brake without oil to help cool the pads and pitons (edit - er, pistons) etc.

[AlexGold]

I'm still a little confused about this as well, I just bought uber bike pads and went for 'race matrix' which seems to be none of the above but it's the most expensive so most be good

[thenorthwind]

Lune ranger pretty much has it, but I would add organic pads are better from cold, and sintered are supposed to give better braking in the wet (despite the squealing).

Personally, I stick with organic these days. They can wear quickly in certain conditions (grit, wet peaty mud) but I buy them from Uberbike and they're cheap enough. Mostly they last ages. I can't stand squealy brakes.

Uber bike and some of the other aftermarket brands do more expensive "kevlar" or "race matrix" ones which try to be the best of both worlds. I've used them on my big bike, and they perform about the same as organic IME, but should last longer - how much longer is hard to tell: too many variables.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Shimano used to say 'only use resin pads' has that changed or was it only certain models? I'd always assumed it was due to their systems using mineral oil and the extra heat generated by metal pads?

[Cyclepeasant]

Fwiw.
There appears to be a lot of overthinking about stuff .
If you are happy with OE fitment,stick with it.
IME everyone likes things to perform in different ways.
Life is , after all,a big experience and part of it is experimenting ,it's really the only way to learn.
Surely it's the reason we go riding and sleeping outdoors.
I love being a perpetual student!

[Mariner]

Shimano used to say 'only use resin pads'

Etched on the Shimano rotors I just fitted.

[jameso]

Shimano used to say 'only use resin pads' has that changed or was it only certain models? I'd always assumed it was due to their systems using mineral oil and the extra heat generated by metal pads?

It's a warning mark on certain rotors that aren't heat-treated to cope with that greater heat a metal pad creates. Replace the rotor and you can use metal pads - for lower braking needs it's probably no issue to mix the non-HT rotors and metal pads, plenty of riders do it, w/o fireball death that I know of..

[thenorthwind]

Shimano used to say 'only use resin pads' has that changed or was it only certain models? I'd always assumed it was due to their systems using mineral oil and the extra heat generated by metal pads?

I'd always wondered. I've used other pads without death, but I'm only one data point.

If you are happy with OE fitment,stick with it.
I love being a perpetual student!

Perhaps when you see the price of OE pads compared with the aftermarket brands your perpetual studenthood will kick in

[Cyclepeasant]

" Fireball of death"
LOL!
Good to see a GOSH on here.
Some forums are...

[ScotRoutes]

I only ever use OE pads. I don't go through them fast enough that cost is a concern . (I've also seen enough failures to justify my decision).

[Cyclepeasant]

TNW....
Well....you know us youngsters....
....we never learn!!

[ootini]

Thanks for the info. When it comes to the actual pads, am I right in thinking the number dictates shape/fitment and the letter prefix is material ? I *think* the Shimano rs405 calipers use KO3s pads, but is L03s the same thing? I'm not sure which I'm looking for.

[jameso]

" Fireball of death"
LOL!
Good to see a GOSH on here.
Some forums are...

Component misuse equalling death by fireball is a STW term I believe

[Alpinum]

Not a long read and covers a few things:

https://off.road.cc/content/feature/whi ... ganic-1901

More fairy tales and thoughts from Gian:

Bent rotors.
Not bent by hitting an object, but bent by the expansion of the rotor due to heat and then cooling in an uncontrolled fashion.

Thinking back, the same rotors probably failed more often with organic pads, than sintered. But not sure about that. Could well be biased, as I like the theory behind it.

In theory, sintered pads will transfer heat better to the caliper – I'm sure in motorsports this has been thoroughly tested.
If your brake fluid is in a bad state (badly bled, old) you'll get issues due to strong fading.

With organic pads the heat will be more locked to the rotor, putting more stress on that part. Likely to get less/later fading, but glazing. Once the system has glazed it'll squeak and loose a noticeable amount of power.

I'm sure I glaze my regular organic pads more often than the e-bike pads.

On my Kona (short travel FS) I prefer to ride regular organic pads, but I must admit they glaze quite often. Yet the glazed discs and pads will eventually roughen up with more normal braking in dust/mud. If not, I use some sandpaper. Not much of an issue, but sucks as it feels like I'm running too small rotors.
At the moment this is with the regular Shimano discs (200 mm front/180 mm rear). I'm on the last set and have gone through I think 6 rotors in about 1.5 years. This last set of a bunch I got for free will likely go beyond repair once the snow has cleared and long descents become regular again.
Once the set on the Kona is done, it'll be rotors with spider only, as for my other bikes.

On my Bold (long travel FS) I ride the worst terrain and style for a brake you can't think of, yet have far less problems. I use e-bike brake pads and rotors with alloy spiders. The rotors get some lovely blue colour, but stay true and I can't remember they it last glazed.
Anything else just kept causing problems and I'm surely not going to change my riding because of that.
Last autumn I smashed the rotor on a rock when it was glowing hot and it got well bent. After that riding was … a jerking affair.
I had no problems bending it back with a pipe wrench. As good as new.
I used to run sintered, once the original pads were down. With sintered things improved a bit. After a summer I had to change rotors (bent SRAM rotors) and also changed to new pads (again):
https://www.swissstop.ch/brakepads/disc ... c29/disce/

Best I've lately used. Feel a bit like they carry the benefits of both worlds without their downsides.

If I'd live in the UK, I'd probably be on the above pads as I feel they work well in a large range. Then rotors with an alloy spider, probably 180/160 mm.

That's about what I used on the HT550 and other very similar trips across the whole of UK and felt it was a good setup.

Then the noise.
I think mine, no matter which of my 6 bikes with disc brakes, only squeak when the rotors are wet. Once things go downhill they get hot and get quiet.

Reminds me of:

I've always run resin pads on shimano resin pad only centreLock disks.

thinking about trying some semi-metalic pads but not sure if i really need to upgrade my disks too?

Ta.

If you're changing pads in order to get better heat management it'll well be worth investing in floating rotors (alu spider things) and larger rotor sizes too.

Ashima ARF-3
Doesn't get any better. I've used Hope Saw, TRP floating, Shimano floating (ice tec - unbelievable what happens to them when they get really hot) and Superstar flaoting.

Hope and TRP rotors are really good.

Yet, the Ashima one's feel best of those mentioned.

The growing pile of bent (due to heat) rotors (none of them floating design) in my cellar tells a story. This pile was started winter 15/16. Foto from last summer. I've since added 4 Shimano and two SRAM rotors to it. All bent beyond repair. The Shimano were free. I still have 4 of them.





No chance to either bend them back cold or heat them to 800 °C and cooling them down really really slow (48 h) with weights on top.

The only time I have to change rotors with spiders is when they get too thin or I've knocked them into rocks (letter rarely happens).

I'm absolutely not trying to say non spider rotors are rubbish, but rather that IF you have issues with too hot brakes, much can be done with rotors too.

But yeah, pads first, it's cheaper.

As with so many bits and pieces, brakes are a system within another, larger system. The different parts will work best if adressed correspondingly.

[Alpinum]

[...]bedding in well before you use them in the wet/mud though, helps the lifespan somehow.

[...]semi-sintered pads I used for a couple of years before.

[...]

Yeah, bedding in. Stick to what the manufacturers say if possible.
I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but try to bed them in nicely too.
Good point.

James, do you remember what semi sintered you used?
I can remember Nukeproofs having more of the disadvantages of both worlds. But they may have changes now. This was round about 2012/2013.

[jameso]

James, do you remember what semi sintered you used?

Errr.. FWE / Evans own brand? Made by Clarkes, same pads as theirs. Not bad but not that smooth-running in my Spyres. But more durable than the Spyre OE pad (as would be a wedge of toasted cardboard)