• Carrot/Stick idea.....

Posted: **Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:05 pm**

Evening all,

I hope everyone is recovering nicely from the seasons excesses - I managed to stay fairly sensible this year despite having family out and being mildly incapacitated with a flare up of my back problem (boo!).

But.....I'm on the mend (rode this evening which was much needed!) and been thinking about a new concept in motivation - strap in, here goes.....

How about a group of us (or just me if there's no interest) pick a worthy cause or two and commit to a pre-decided (individually) financial penalty upon failing (via uselessness as opposed to injury etc...) to achieve 'X' in the next year.

Like a resolution but with teeth!

My original thought was that I'd publically declare that if I failed at the BAM for 2020 then I'd give £100 to the Conservative Party

How's that for an incentive!

But.....I couldn't possibly actually go through with it whereas I could give money/time/something to a worthy cause if I failed to keep a promise and thus an idea was born.

So any interest in a Boners group 'thingy'???

You choose your goals, decide your penalties and then we chat about it as the year progresses and then, at the end, we're either all supremely fit, bikepacking legends OR some much needed help wings it's way to a few worthy causes.

What do you think?

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:31 am**

The payoff of hitting your goal is a bit of a funny one Gairy - "Yes! BaM done at last. Now I don't have to donate to that wretched charity!"

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:45 am**

Goals are a double-edged sword sometimes.

The R5000 Audax goal is the genuinely challenging one of the goals I set myself for the season. It's not something that will just happen, I will have to make sure I plan ahead for what rides I'm doing so I make sure that I hit that distance. The problem is that in some senses I set this goal when I was looking for things to get me back into distance riding again. Now I am riding, and enjoying it again for its own sake, I'm looking at trips I want to do that won't count as part of that distance and trying to balance those 2 things is somewhat of a quandary.

I want to hit my goals because I set myself the task of hitting them... yet I also want to do other big riding related stuff for its own value. I'm already starting to get excited again about the off-road riding and biving that is coming up with the Dam Busters event and I can see myself getting totally bitten again when we get out into the wild on the 11th of Jan. I think this is likely to give me a load more conflict about what I want to spend my time doing. Ultimately I would have thought I will just do what I feel I want to do.

I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this, but it seems to me that if you need to set yourself a penalty for not hitting the goals you have set yourself... you are setting the wrong goals.

Goals should be something that inspire us to do things not beat us into doing them.

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:49 am**

What about if you achieve your goal everyone else who joins in has to pay that donation between them all, regardless if they themselves have completed their challenge or not. If it’s all done equally then the worst case scenario is you pay (ever so slightly less than) double your pledge, and that’s only if you fail and everyone else completes their challenge. It could fall down if challenges are worth different amounts but if you did BaM for the equivalent of £1 per person who enters it should be fairly easy.

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:05 am**

I thought, maybe a partnership?

Join with someone else and tell each other your goal. Agree that the other person will pay a specified amount to the charity of your choice if you complete your goal ... it's a win / win.

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:06 pm**

composite wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:45 amI'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this, but it seems to me that if you need to set yourself a penalty for not hitting the goals you have set yourself... you are setting the wrong goals.

Goals should be something that inspire us to do things not beat us into doing them.

I totally see where you're coming from but I'm talking more about goals for people like me who are struggling to do simple things (like trying to lose weight) and maintain a reasonable level of activity.

This will be the third new year that my goal is to cease to be a useless fat git and so far, each year, I've ended up girthier than I started.

Hence the 'penalty'.

But I get what's being said re:

In Reverse wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:31 am The payoff of hitting your goal is a bit of a funny one Gairy - "Yes! BaM done at last. Now I don't have to donate to that wretched charity!"

I never said it was a fully finished idea!

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:05 am I thought, maybe a partnership?

Join with someone else and tell each other your goal. Agree that the other person will pay a specified amount to the charity of your choice if you complete your goal ... it's a win / win.

Maybe but then there's the risk of one side hoping the other side doesn't achieve their goal so they don't have to cough up - hmmm.....

Maybe I'll just go ahead and set my targets, pick my penalties and go it alone.

But it definitely seems wrong to need to choose a 'bad cause' in order to properly motivate oneself to do simple, sensible things in life

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:06 pm**

AndyTheBikeGuy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:49 am What about if you achieve your goal everyone else who joins in has to pay that donation between them all, regardless if they themselves have completed their challenge or not. If it’s all done equally then the worst case scenario is you pay (ever so slightly less than) double your pledge, and that’s only if you fail and everyone else completes their challenge. It could fall down if challenges are worth different amounts but if you did BaM for the equivalent of £1 per person who enters it should be fairly easy.

This seems like a nice idea given sufficient participants.

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:07 pm**

More thinking required.....

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:32 pm**

A few years ago at this time of year I went down a rabbit hole of research on the psychology of New Years resolutions. Here are some of the bits that I liked hence believed and remembered.

Be realistic
Be specific
Be flexible and forgiving of failures
Break it down into smaller time chunks
Asses how you are getting on
Tell someone else about it
Set the same goal as someone else
Have a reward for completing it

These last three fit with this carrot stick concept

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:48 pm**

Ok Gairym
I’m up for that, £100* To a charity of your choice if I fail BAM, you pay a £100 to a charity of my choice if I complete it and vice versa (I think that works

) only stipulation is I’m not giving money to the f*****g Tories.

* Amount negotiable.

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:49 pm**

Gairy, how about doing it a different way. Let's say you need to complete BAM, if you fail you wear a tutu/mankini out on New Years Eve? You could also donate double to charity If you fail - double whammy!

Posted: **Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:14 pm**

SeannyD wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:48 pm Ok Gairym
I’m up for that, £100* To a charity of your choice if I fail BAM, you pay a £100 to a charity of my choice if I complete it and vice versa (I think that works ) only stipulation is I’m not giving money to the f*****g Tories.
* Amount negotiable.

Ok, great you're on BUT.....let's make it £50 as you've doubled-up by saying we'll each pay for our own failure AND each others success, no?

Posted: **Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:15 pm**

Karl wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:49 pm Gairy, how about doing it a different way. Let's say you need to complete BAM, if you fail you wear a tutu/mankini out on New Years Eve? You could also donate double to charity If you fail - double whammy!

Nice try but it'll take more than that to get me to go out on New Year's Eve - my usual goal is to be in bed as early as humanly possible so as to maximise my smugness come January 1st

Posted: **Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:30 pm**

gairym wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:06 pm This will be the third new year that my goal is to cease to be a useless fat git and so far, each year, I've ended up girthier than I started.

You just need to come on holiday with me. Significant weight loss and becoming fitter guaranteed

Jura trip mid/end of January? As a start...

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:19 pm**

Alpinum wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:30 pm
gairym wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:06 pm This will be the third new year that my goal is to cease to be a useless fat git and so far, each year, I've ended up girthier than I started.
You just need to come on holiday with me. Significant weight loss and becoming fitter guaranteed

Jura trip mid/end of January? As a start...

Mate, you're last 'holiday' looked like a proper beauty!

Making time for trips and training rides with 3 young kids and work/school commitments is one half of the issue (the other is eating/drinking like someone in their twenties who cycles 1000km a week

)

What/when you thinking re: the Jura in January? I'll take a look at the schedule but I highly doubt I'd be able to swing it this time round.

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:40 pm**

gairym wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:19 pm What/when you thinking re: the Jura in January? I'll take a look at the schedule but I highly doubt I'd be able to swing it this time round.

What ever suits you best. I'm completely free.
If January is unlikely for you, we could try March. (L. has some time to play with in February - so I'm trying to keep it free in order to spend time with her.)

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:53 pm**

Alpinum wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:40 pmWhat ever suits you best. I'm completely free.
If January is unlikely for you, we could try March. (L. has some time to play with in February - so I'm trying to keep it free in order to spend time with her.)

Ok, great. I'm well up for a nice little trip but need to see what's possible. I'll take a look and give you a shout for sure!

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:42 pm**

gairym wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:53 pm Ok, great. I'm well up for a nice little trip but need to see what's possible. I'll take a look and give you a shout for sure!

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:13 pm**

gairym wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:14 pm [quote=SeannyD post_id=201185 time=<a href="tel:1577558922">1577558922</a> user_id=4252]
Ok Gairym
I’m up for that, £100* To a charity of your choice if I fail BAM, you pay a £100 to a charity of my choice if I complete it and vice versa (I think that works ) only stipulation is I’m not giving money to the f*****g Tories.
* Amount negotiable.
Ok, great you're on BUT.....let's make it £50 as you've doubled-up by saying we'll each pay for our own failure AND each others success, no?
Fair point £50 To a charity of the winners choice if the other does not complete the task. If we both complete it, bets off?

Posted: **Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:44 pm**

Hang on, I'm confused.

I thought initially that it was just each of us stumping up charity cash if the other succeeded (so said £100 to make it a sufficiently motivating amount) but then you said.....

I'm up for that, £100* To a charity of your choice if I fail BAM, you pay a £100 to a charity of my choice if I complete it and vice versa (I think that works ) only stipulation is I’m not giving money to the f*****g Tories.
* Amount negotiable.

So then I said.....

Ok, great you're on BUT.....let's make it £50 as you've doubled-up by saying we'll each pay for our own failure AND each others success, no?

To which you replied.....

Fair point £50 To a charity of the winners choice if the other does not complete the task. If we both complete it, bets off?

Which is totally different again, no???

I'm very much up for this so let's nail down the details asap before I realise January ended and I did nowt

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:40 pm**

gairym wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:44 pm Hang on, I'm confused.

I thought initially that it was just each of us stumping up charity cash if the other succeeded (so said £100 to make it a sufficiently motivating amount) but then you said.....

I'm up for that, £100* To a charity of your choice if I fail BAM, you pay a £100 to a charity of my choice if I complete it and vice versa (I think that works ) only stipulation is I’m not giving money to the f*****g Tories.
* Amount negotiable.
So then I said.....

Ok, great you're on BUT.....let's make it £50 as you've doubled-up by saying we'll each pay for our own failure AND each others success, no?
To which you replied.....

Fair point £50 To a charity of the winners choice if the other does not complete the task. If we both complete it, bets off?
Which is totally different again, no???

I'm very much up for this so let's nail down the details asap before I realise January ended and I did nowt

Me too

Just reread my post,(in bold) didn’t think it through and over complicated it. Would your original idea suit, I would pay a £100 to a charity of your choice if you complete it and if I complete you pay the same to a charity of my choosing?

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:00 pm**

Yep, that'll do nicely

Cripes! Only 23 days left for my back to heal sufficiently and for the weather to play nicely (only the first one is actually necessary).....

Good luck to us both!

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:08 pm**

Aye, good luck to both of us

now need to get off my lazy arse and sort out an interesting bivvi to start with

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:22 am**

Just reread my post,(in bold) didn’t think it through and over complicated it. Would your original idea suit, I would pay a £100 to a charity of your choice if you complete it and if I complete you pay the same to a charity of my choosing?

Why not just do it on a monthly basis - so same rules, for each month.

£10/month - put aside if you manage (and then you'll hopefully have £120 by Christmas - and will probably give it to charity anyway), and paid to 'his' charity pot if you fail a month.

If you do it on a yearly basis and your bad back/kids stop you getting out in Feb, where's the motivation gone..............

Carrot/Stick idea.....

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