like google maps, but better

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shutupthepunx
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like google maps, but better

Post by shutupthepunx » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:00 am

so i dont have a GPS and i dont really know how people go about making routes. there was some talk of it a few weeks back i know, as seemingly some website died or something?

anyway, with long distance touring google sometimes p00ps itself when u put it to bicycle mode (or even car mode for that matter) and ask it to maybe cross a few country borders etc etc.

I was cycling from turkey to hungry last year and found this very useful... https://maps.openrouteservice.org/

not even does it have bicycle mode but there's 4 options of bicycle, Normal, Mountain bike, Road bike and e-bike and they take u different routes depending. (3 options if you dont include e-bikes as bikes) :lol:

theres also more options for what layers, or view, or map you see. i dont know how to describe it, you know what i mean.

anyway i thought maybe somone might find it usefull.

padonbike
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by padonbike » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:55 am

Like many of these free online maps, the detail is fine on road and even tracks, but not really useable off-road compared to 1:50,000 OS, let alone 1:25,000.
From a quick look, you couldn't use it to navigate to a bothy in Kielder forest. :geek:

boxelder
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by boxelder » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:05 am

Yeah, just what I was trying to do - see if it will give a route up Skiddaw. It will recognise some tops e.g. Blencathra, but won't give a bike route up it - correctly, as a footpath. Komoot will send bikes up Fps though, so interesting that this differentiates. How do you choose a point on the map instead of using an address?

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whitestone
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by whitestone » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:51 am

Hmm, I just checked around here (Skipton) and many of the bridleways are mis-categorised as footpaths. On their default map many are missing! Choose Opencycle or Openstreetmap shows them correctly.

The interface is a bit odd, it took me a couple of minutes to figure out how to add start and end points. Still trying to figure out how to generate the route between them.

Edit: the "broken" online route creator was Bikehike.co.uk. Just checked and it's back up and running. I had a problem with it in that I couldn't upload existing routes to have a look at them but that seems to have been fixed as well.
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Dave Barter
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by Dave Barter » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:41 pm

I know exactly how this works. It uses a toolkit called OSRM that I use a lot. This in turn is only as good as the cost data and categories added to the road/path/bridleway data. I am 99% convinced it uses default openstreetmap data which can be all over the place. It only gets better when people learn to edit openstreetmap and go in and correct stuff.

You can all help by signing up at https://www.openstreetmap.org/ creating an account, learning how to edit the map and updating the tags on the places you know. This is the only way we will ever get a decent set of free RoW data and routing.
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whitestone
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by whitestone » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:55 pm

Dave Barter wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:41 pm
I know exactly how this works. It uses a toolkit called OSRM that I use a lot. This in turn is only as good as the cost data and categories added to the road/path/bridleway data. I am 99% convinced it uses default openstreetmap data which can be all over the place. It only gets better when people learn to edit openstreetmap and go in and correct stuff.

You can all help by signing up at https://www.openstreetmap.org/ creating an account, learning how to edit the map and updating the tags on the places you know. This is the only way we will ever get a decent set of free RoW data and routing.
I'm already doing that Dave :grin: I *think* I've sorted most of the BWs around Skipton and am slowly working my way around the Dales :-bd
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padonbike
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by padonbike » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:23 pm

whitestone wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:51 am
Edit: the "broken" online route creator was Bikehike.co.uk. Just checked and it's back up and running. I had a problem with it in that I couldn't upload existing routes to have a look at them but that seems to have been fixed as well.
Yep, had a check of bikehike last week, Bob and noticed it's back up. Phew! :grin:

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sean_iow
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by sean_iow » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:38 pm

padonbike wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:55 am
Like many of these free online maps, the detail is fine on road and even tracks, but not really useable off-road compared to 1:50,000 OS, let alone 1:25,000.
From a quick look, you couldn't use it to navigate to a bothy in Kielder forest. :geek:
In defense of the OP, he was cycling from Turkey to Hungry so the Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 series wouldn't have been much use :lol:

Is Open Source mapping better abroad than it is in the UK? Perhaps the lack of an Ordnance Survey in other counties encourages more people to update the OSM map as they don't have a good alternative?
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NewRetroTom
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by NewRetroTom » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:53 pm

cycling from Turkey to Hungry
A Christmas lunch themed bike ride?

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thenorthwind
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by thenorthwind » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:57 pm

Fair point that, Dave. I use OSM data somtimes so it's only fair that I spend a small amount of my employer's time contributing :wink:

While we're on the topic, I'm never sure exactly what the link between OSM and OCM is - is it all the same information just presented differently? Or is there different information for each? Or a combination of the two?

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Dave Barter
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by Dave Barter » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:18 pm

What do you mean by OCM?
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whitestone
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by whitestone » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:29 pm

Dave Barter wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:18 pm
What do you mean by OCM?
OCM = Open Cycle Map perhaps?

OSM is the base, core data. Opencyclemap (and Openfietsmap) is based on the OSM data but with emphasis on bike friendly routes.
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Dave Barter
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by Dave Barter » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:36 pm

Opencyclemap are basically a different view on OSM data created by applying a different map style to elements tagged as cycle path etc...

Cycle Streets (https://www.cyclestreets.net/journey/) is different in that the guy who runs it maintains his own network costs. He will add corrections when told (or he used to). His photo map can be really useful as well https://www.cyclestreets.net/photomap/
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RIP
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by RIP » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:55 pm

NewRetroTom wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:53 pm
cycling from Turkey to Hungry
A Christmas lunch themed bike ride?
very good that, in the time allowed :wink: .
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pistonbroke
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by pistonbroke » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:19 pm

Perhaps the lack of an Ordnance Survey in other counties encourages more people to update the OSM map as they don't have a good alternative?
In my humble opinion, the area of Spain where I live i.e Cataluña has mapping which is at least on a par with OS and it could be argued, is less cluttered. That's coming from someone who learnt to read OS maps almost before learning to read, navigated for my rally driver father from age 10 and was 5 times UK Trailquest (mtb orienteering) champion. Ok we get very used to reading OS maps and when looking at other types, they may seem a bit, well, foreign but the IGCC mapping is available free online, easily and smoothly scrollable and most importantly, from my experience, accurate.
I've tried to post a screenshot but failed, the IGCC website is here http://www.icc.cat/vissir3/

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Dave Barter
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by Dave Barter » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:35 pm

That's because it only needs updating every 15 years due to builder productivity...
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pistonbroke
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by pistonbroke » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:13 pm

The roads were devoid of any form of traffic at all bar us sweaty British cyclists as we toiled up the hill in the midday heat. Duncan told me of recent road races that had used these roads and I could see why as they were perfectly surfaced and scattered with views. I began to chant the lament of the British born cyclist “Why can’t it be like this in Blighty? Why are the roads so bloody shitey?”.
Bring back any memories Dave, the Spanish road building programme puts the UK to shame, since we moved here 4 years ago, at least 50km of brand new roads have been built near here and our little used road from the village has been resurfaced with actual smooth tarmac not the lethal and damaging gravel top dressing that is all the rage in rural UK. The IGCC mapping had a full upgrade this year and roads built in the last year were included, when we lived in Yorkshire, a bypass to the village of Dodworth near the M1 was built and it was 3 years before the mapping was changed.

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thenorthwind
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Re: like google maps, but better

Post by thenorthwind » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:55 am

whitestone wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:29 pm
Dave Barter wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:18 pm
What do you mean by OCM?
OCM = Open Cycle Map perhaps?
Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. And I thought I was amongst fellow map nerds... :geek:
Dave Barter wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:36 pm
Opencyclemap are basically a different view on OSM data created by applying a different map style to elements tagged as cycle path etc...
Gotcha, cheers

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