I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

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Bearbonesnorm
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I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:53 pm

Despite trying to be friendly, inclusive and helping to promote the joyful world of bikepacking for well over a decade, I can't help feel that the industry still views this place and those who frequent it with a degree of suspicion or unease.

Why so?

Well, because it seems odd that an article listing '10 UK bikepacking events to pit yourself against in 2020' makes no mention :wink:

https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/bikepacki ... W_vAAIC1KQ
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Re: Not entirely unexpected.

Post by jameso » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:16 pm

the industry still views this place and those who frequent it with a degree of suspicion or unease.
I don't think so, it's just not so well known generally? Alpkit had a fair bit on the WRT a while back didn't they?

BB events and WRT have just stayed grass-roots for so long. That's a good thing, right? I think Bearbones events suffer from / benefit from a lack of insta-fame and general marketing outside of here. And forums are an older demographic now aren't they, social media for us 40+ blokes (edit - not just blokes is it though, apologies)

I know at work (counts as 'the industry' I suppose) the 'sleeping in hedges' thing seems to be a running piss-take topic for me, I think that's a bit odd. Race the TD or ride across France in a week for a holiday and you're a 'hedge sleeper' but do an Ironman and everyone sees you as an Achiever :grin: yet I see them as a Pippi-longstockings wearing Triathlete, never a good look* :wink: (*joking really, mostly, it's all good)
Last edited by jameso on Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Landslide » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:20 pm

You just need a few more sick edits and a TikTok account.

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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by RIP » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:30 pm

Well there's not many people, even 'bikepackers', who'd want to be in an unventilated space with more than one 'Boner I'm sure.

Nah, James is right, we do our own wierd thing and don't tick any normal boxes so why would they bother.

Still, it'd be nice to have some acknowledgment :smile: . No hang on, you'd be moaning more if we were in the list! :smile:
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:34 pm

I don't think so, it's just not so well known generally? Alpkit had a fair bit on the WRT a while back didn't they?
Yes, we've always had a good relationship with Alpkit, after all, we got 'em into bikepacking :wink:
BB events and WRT have just stayed grass-roots for so long. That's a good thing, right? I think Bearbones events suffer from / benefit from a lack of insta-fame and general marketing outside of here. And forums are an older demographic now aren't they, social media for us 40+ blokes.
It is a good thing really James and I know that deep down I wouldn't want it any other way - my punk rock roots are too deep. I have written in the past how bikepacking is a pursuit for the older rider, so again, you're dead right :wink:
I know at work (counts as 'the industry' I suppose) the 'sleeping in hedges' thing seems to be a running piss-take topic for me, I think that's a bit odd. Race the TD or ride across France in a week for a holiday and you're a 'hedge sleeper' but do an Ironman and everyone sees you as an Achiever
Is that not simply ignorance laced with a little fear and self doubt on others behalf? I think it's the ignorance that sometimes gets to me a little ... heritage appears quite important to cyclists in general, yet any interest in heritage appears to vanish when people talk / write about bikepacking.
a TikTok account
A what?
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by jameso » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:44 pm

Is that not simply ignorance laced with a little fear and self doubt on others behalf? I think it's the ignorance that sometimes gets to me a little ... heritage appears quite important to cyclists in general, yet any interest in heritage appears to vanish when people talk / write about bikepacking.
Maybe. I think cycling is easy to understand within day ride or short race format. As soon as you get into sleeping out it all seems a bit bushcraft-weirdo to many. Perhaps a need for escapism is a sign of being a bit odd or an outlier, but that doesn't explain the difference in how some events are perceived. Maybe the TCR or similar being road-based and cool overcomes the mud and grubby sleeping out aspect, the bivi aspect glossed over in the talk of distances and the Raphaesque imagery (all of which which I like, to be clear - not a critique).

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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by jameso » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:47 pm

who'd want to be in an unventilated space with more than one 'Boner
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:53 pm

Maybe the TCR or similar being road-based and cool overcomes the mud and grubby sleeping out aspect, the bivi aspect glossed over in the talk of distances and the Raphaesque imagery (all of which which I like, to be clear - not a critique).
Very possibly. My industry insider often regales me with tales of customers who've entered one of the higher profile road / gravel events and yet have never camped / bivvied or even ridden a loaded bike, so yes, that aspect probably is glossed over.
Still, it'd be nice to have some acknowledgment
Although I shouldn't say it, there probably are some days (though not many) when I do feel a bit like that Reg. Back to the 'heritage' thing I suppose ... first and longest running bikepacking event in Europe. First and longest running ITT in Europe ... you know where I'm coming from.
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by wriggles » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:59 pm

Admit it Stu - your events just aren't the right fit for teh Insta. Its all about the reciprocation for influencers promoting them selves as much as an event, and your sleep in a ditch persona just isnt going to sell the stuffs :-bd

In all seriousness, I have only done one BB event and it was fab and none of my other favorite events are on that list and - thats a good thing IMO. Bike packing is the new gravel which was the new fatbike. The less the things I enjoy are monetized the better. There now seems to be a new event for every weekend of the year, each more pricey than the last and I think I have seen that Frontier 300 shoved at me via various channels over 100 times in the last week. Its just a c-t-c ride ffs!

Also I like the authors stuff generally as she obviously has a genuine passion for riding which comes across in what she does.

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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:07 pm

Also I like the authors stuff generally as she obviously has a genuine passion for riding which comes across in what she does.
Ooh I hadn't noticed Katherine had written it. I like Katherine but having spent 3 days riding with her in Scotland a couple of years ago, it kind of underlines my point :wink:
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by ScotRoutes » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:19 pm

It's possible that one or more of the chargeable events have paid for promotion (in some way).

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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by RIP » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:43 pm

Good point 'Routes, it is Red Bull after all. Not much money to be made out of all our copious BBB tea drinking (hmm...thinks... has anyone contacted TyPhoo recently? (other tannin-based beverages are available)).

Given that RB are keen on events that presumably 'require' lots of their product to be consumed by a rider to have any hope of 'succeeding' (chucking yourself off a cliff on an MTB for example), lord only knows what would happen if we consumed ten cans of the stuff immediately before sleeping in the aforementioned land-drainage-channels. Mismatch there methinks.

Look at all the words in the article - racing, ultra, exciting, races, mighty, epic, limits, tough, serious, ticking off, race, checkpoints, racing, timed... now I know the odd wierdo on Here :wink: is into that type of thing but....

...in no magazine or marketing tripe are you going to see smell, tramp, wander, temporarily geographically challenged orientationally, stench, tarp, downpour, Thing, hen house, slug, raging torrent, random, meths, ice, map, any Barter speciality words, tussock, poo trowel, panda, or - yes - ditch; and if/when you do then maybe our work is done and time to shut up shop. But we never will :-bd .
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Jurassic pusher » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 pm

I wouldn`t be that bothered, all the pictures look a bit too R@pha to me!
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by sean_iow » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:32 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Ooh I hadn't noticed Katherine had written it.
She still has campfire pics on her insta for her 'school night bivi club' so perhaps that's where you're going wrong :wink: plus there's a lack of mug dangle at bb events.

You wouldn't want the sort of people that social media can attract, they'll only end up calling mountain rescue when their latte from the petrol station doesn't meet expectations :lol:
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by jameso » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:42 pm

I do wonder if the mug-dangle r@pha hipster digs on here, or the ethics-stickler debates (er, guilty here), might come across in a way that alienates some. I realise the hipster stuff is tongue in cheek and comes from people who as far as I've met are all welcoming, friendly and easy going. But the flip side could be an equally friendly bikepacking crowd who think there's a purist fun police or 'thinks they're more real/hardcore' etc aspect to this or similar groups and the associations attach to the events? Yet we all know at any ride event everyone gets on fine and it's pretty much 'do what you like'.

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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by sean_iow » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:11 pm

It is only meant in jest... apart from comments about fires.

I've got a shaved head with sideburns, ride a singlespeed, wear Crikey, how much bibs and have been disappointed by a petrol station latte, so I'm hardly in a position to criticise other people :lol:

I think the reach of Bearbones is wider than realised here, when I've worn my jersey at local events I've been quizzed about bikepacking by riders who've heard of the forum.
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Gregsie » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:21 pm

Well BB200 made this list Stuart, if that's any consolation. https://advntr.cc/events?fbclid=IwAR21a ... 3tdNr67_rs
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by boxelder » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:27 pm

It's content generation, without too much research I reckon. A list to catch the eye, which then recalls Red Bull. I'm almost certain none of the events listed are paid for inclusion, or even asked if they want to be included. Think of it as a ' Sunpat's 10 best toaster buys' or '6 Most romantic weekend breaks', with Stella Artois.
I know for a fact that people visit here and are put off - that's intended isn't it, like in the Slaughtered Lamb? https://youtu.be/07FdVcspOfQ
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by redefined_cycles » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:35 pm

I'd just like to say 2 things (it would have been three but am trying not to waffle).

Firstly, once whilst on shift. I was asked to take go with a patient (young lady who was having bladder issues and kept weeing herself) with the paramedics from S**** to H*** for an urgent MRI (or CT but prrtty certain it was MRI) to rule out any spinal issues. Whereby for example a spinal nerve may have been pushing the wrong bits and causing her to wee self etc etc etc. Turned out everything was fine and it was her diet that had been screwing her over. Doctors discharged her from Hull abruptly and told her to cut down on the RedBull (Monster nrg) her and her partner were consuming daily. Think it was like 3 cans each they wrre drinking daily :shock:

Secondly, what a lovely thread you've opened once again. I will keep my opinions and comments to myself but will yell you this... that on the back of this and directly inspired by this, I'm opening my competition (on another thread) :-bd

Keep it up (super hardcore events and blueting your mouth off in a controlled manner and not chasing people to like you :grin: :lol: )... comp coming up

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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:48 am

I do wonder if the mug-dangle r@pha hipster digs on here, or the ethics-stickler debates (er, guilty here), might come across in a way that alienates some.
Very possibly but if so, then I feel the actual problem or issue doesn't lie with this place :wink:
I've got a shaved head with sideburns
Not sure that makes you any kind of hipster ... 80's wrestler maybe :wink:
I know for a fact that people visit here and are put off - that's intended isn't it, like in the Slaughtered Lamb?
Is it intended though Andrew? Don't know. I can appreciate that some folk might not 'get it' but there's lots of popular things I don't get, although I'm sure I'd feel right at home having a coke in the Lamb. :-bd
Keep it up (super hardcore events and blueting your mouth off in a controlled manner and not chasing people to like you
Weirdly, aside from the BB200/300, events aren't hardcore, so there must be some misconception at play. Perhaps as James says, the events are judged by those who ride them and how others perceive those riders? As for expressing views or opinion not universally popular, I can offer no defence other than 'bad things for good reasons' :wink:

My initial post wasn't about whether this place or BB is popular. It wasn't about the public image and if wearing a panda on your helmet might skew that somewhat. I know well that I'm not the best figure head or poster boy (maybe mascot's a better word) for any kind of group. The post was just reflecting an observation which obviously lead to a few other thoughts - it's all good.
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by sean_iow » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:58 am

Bearbonesnorm wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:48 am
I've got a shaved head with sideburns
Not sure that makes you any kind of hipster ... 80's wrestler maybe :wink:
When I'm only wearing my bibs I do have a certain 'wrestler' look :lol: albeit somewhat slimmer than I remember them from a Saturday afternoon at my Nan's house.

When we used to go round (I would have been under 10) my Nan would make my Grandad put a shirt on as he had an inappropriate tattoo on his chest, a topless Australian woman. How did I know she was Australian? Well, all she was wearing was a hat with corks hanging off the edge :lol:
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Bearbonesnorm » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:14 am

I'm liking the sound of your grandad :-bd
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by Jurassic pusher » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:19 am

Dickie Davis / World of Sport has a lot to answer to!!
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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by jameso » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:28 am

Very possibly but if so, then I feel the actual problem or issue doesn't lie with this place :wink:
Takes two, perhaps? Many of the posters on here know each other from the rides so it's far easier to 'get' the jokes or understand the Crikey, how much swear filter. Maybe it's a bit like when some talk about PC-ness and what's OK - if you have to ask whether something is OK or inclusive, it probably isn't. This isn't the same as the annual debate over Fairytale of New York that's coming up now... similar point about perception though. And bearing in mind the boom in road-packing and gravel multi day has been in the last 3 or 4 years tops while this site and the events has been going a lot longer, so many who'd read that red bull page or Katherine's blog would be relative newcomers into all this.

There's nothing wrong with standing for 'not being soft', celebrating how good it is to be really out there away from the pre-packaged and safe. The Bearbones 'brand' has a good chunk of that and it's part of the appeal of any event along these lines, to a +/- extent. It's not something elitist or to be taken too seriously but if someone were looking at all this as a branding project it'd be fairly easy to see how it aligns with some and not others, or how you might change things for wider appeal (and not doing that is fine, choosing to be a strong brand for a small market vs a wide-appeal diluted brand - both need to be inclusive though, unless you're marketing the Bullingdon Club). I'm not trying to tell you stuff you don't already know here, just my thoughts on where the degree of suspicion or unease may come from - an impression of being a fringe activity plus some in-club banter or slogan that may alienate those not already in the club? It's just as likely that my view is the skewed one here though.

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Re: I know I shouldn't be surprised any more ....

Post by sean_iow » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:37 am

Just looking back at the article again, and for the HT550, apart from getting the distance the number of entries wrong... the article came out AFTER the 2020 entries closed, so getting a place will be even harder than the article makes out :roll:
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