Riding through the night

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composite
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Riding through the night

Post by composite »

I have had my share of riding through the night before and I'm comfortable with what that entails generally but that has always been from morning starts and been 20hour+ affairs. In November I have a 300km night Audax which starts at 10pm on a Friday night. I currently have 2 ideas in terms of my approach.

I have the Friday off work so...

Either stay up all night Thursday, go to bed about 6am and try to sleep until about 2 or 3pm. I think this has the potential to go badly wrong as it could screw up my sleep pattern right before a big effort and if I can't sleep very well in the day time, could leave me with a large sleep debt. If it works out though, and I can sleep, then it could work out very well.

or

Just go to bed late 1 or 2am and just try to sleep in as late as possible. This plan shouldn't leave me with any screws up in sleep pattern and I should be able to sleep fairly normally. I think is the low-risk option.

Wondered what might be other peoples approach to this?
Last edited by composite on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sean_iow
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by sean_iow »

How long is the 300km likely to take? For me the tough bit about riding through the night isn't the lack of sleep but the fact that I've been on the bike all day beforehand and my contact points are hurting and my legs are tired. I usually stay up all the next day and only then go to bed at my normal bed time.

So starting fresh at 10:00pm if you are likely to finish before bed time the next day I'd probably just have a normal day beforehand and not bother trying to get any extra sleep. Obviously I can't be held responsible if this plan fails :grin:
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psling
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by psling »

When I've done night rides in the past I would do as Sean suggests - spend the night and day before as normal, eating at normal times but maybe grabbing (no more than) a couple of hours 'siesta' after lunch. Anything else would just mess up my body rythyms! Good shower before the off and some comfort snacks along the way :-bd
(300km would take me at least to tea time Saturday so I'd need a breakfast and lunch along the way next day too !!)
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by redefined_cycles »

From a nursing point of view (we continuously nwed to do night shifts cos apparently patients don't suddenly look after themselves on the night): Best thing I've found is to just get in your sleep the night bwfore as normal. If anything yry abd wake a little earlier like at dawn or summat and start your day...

Then after zohar* (a time in early afternoon at which point the sun reaches its zenith... ie. Its straight above your head and then slowly on the way down) time, have your nap. I normally just sleep all the way until asar (when the shadow of an object is the same lenfth as the object itself**)... Thus have found myself to be fully recuperated to do a one-off shift all the way through the night ending at 9am :-bd

I base this method/practice upon the hadith (saying and/or actions) of Muhammed (final prophet of Islam) who had a habit and encouraged a (small) nap in this time. From a research point of view (I think its Greece as one of them) there's certain contries where they practice napping in the early aft for school and find productivity better for the kids. I've also read at some point in time (either in New Sceintist or some other very short study) where they found that workers that had a cheeky snooze after dinner time had better output...

Anyway, above was just FYI as to where I get my thinking from and can definitely say it works well for me. Luke (Lune Ranger) who is also a nurse so on shift work/night duties between day shifts, might be along soon to share how he manages his nights!

*a point in time at around 1245-1400 dependent on time of year and where you live

** a point in time at around 1630 to around 2015. Dependent on time of year. Currently its about 1830 but I would usually just sleep through and wake about half hour before sunset to get in my prayers (Asar)...



Hope it goes well. 300km :lol: childs play for you :-bd
middleagedmadness
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by middleagedmadness »

Again only from work point of view ,I sleep as normal the day before ,get up about 530- 6 next day go back to bed about 12 after a good lunch till around 430 I'm grand then through the night
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by Dyffers »

middleagedmadness wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:29 pm Again only from work point of view ,I sleep as normal the day before ,get up about 530- 6 next day go back to bed about 12 after a good lunch till around 430 I'm grand then through the night
This, for both the occasional single night shift at work and the occasional over night audax. I find no matter how tired I am I come back to life like Marty McFly in Back to the Future when dawn breaks and the body clock accepts I'm normally awake, so the late snooze on previous day gets me through the dozies 1am - 5am.

A mate of mine finds it helpful to talk himself into believing your late start on Friday is just a very early start on Saturday...YMMV, I know that doesn't work for me.

Edit: If your 300k is the one that comes down to Poole, I'm considering riding that myself if it fits in with family plans...but a 300 in November is a lot harder than a 300 in the summer and the GWR audaxes don't shy away from climbing no matter what the time of year.
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by jameso »

Wondered what might be other peoples approach to this?
Sleep as normal / as well as poss the 2 nights before, then deal with the night on the bike, then catch up later. Did similar for the Vatternrunden 300km overnighter a few years back and the TINAT (35hrs straight through) last summer and would do the same again. Most of us have a regular sleep pattern / body clock that going against is the cause of poor sleep - I'd just sleep as normal and accept you'll be tired on the ride at some point. Coffee at midnight maybe.
From a research point of view (I think its Greece as one of them) there's certain contries where they practice napping in the early aft for school and find productivity better for the kids.
Standard practice in many Taiwan offices where people always seem to me to be very productive and hard working. Brains need a break.
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

I think that everyone has a 'sleepy point' when going straight through. For me it's between 1.00am and 3.00am, if I can get through those two hours then I'm fine. As Paul says, once the first signs of dawn appear any tiredness vanishes and my mind / body appears to start a new cycle.
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ScotRoutes
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by ScotRoutes »

I used to do nightshifts one week in three. I just treated the first night as a late night, getting up the standard time, staying awake all day and into the first night. As above, there's a sleepy time around 2:00 - 3:00 after which it feels like morning again (a short nap at that time can help reset the body clock) .

I've used the same approach on some longer rides, including a 400km ride that started at 22:30 and finished 23 hours later.
middleagedmadness
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by middleagedmadness »

Same as scot routes ,the 3am mark is a real kick in the bollox so I tend to have my tea break at this point
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composite
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by composite »

sean_iow wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:44 am How long is the 300km likely to take? For me the tough bit about riding through the night isn't the lack of sleep but the fact that I've been on the bike all day beforehand and my contact points are hurting and my legs are tired. I usually stay up all the next day and only then go to bed at my normal bed time.

So starting fresh at 10:00pm if you are likely to finish before bed time the next day I'd probably just have a normal day beforehand and not bother trying to get any extra sleep. Obviously I can't be held responsible if this plan fails :grin:
I would hope to be done by midday-ish Saturday I suppose. It's 304km with 2300m so medium-ish hilly I guess. There is breakfast in Pool at roughly half way. I expect it won't be light by then so I was thinking I might hang around a bit, take my time eating and actually see the sea after riding all that way. :wink:

I've decided to go with what was my first instinct and have a lie-in and just miss a nights sleep on the Friday. Keep it simple and sensible. I reckon I was overthinking with the staying up all night and sleeping in the day idea.

I have found in the past that if I'm going to have the dosies then it will be about 2-3am. The only time I remember having them badly though was one particularly tough BB200. I was fine apart from when I got cold in the night descending into freezing fog and some rather acute temperature inversions in the valleys. On the flat and climbing, I was fine but going downhill was a series of head-nodding wake-up calls. It was like my body was shutting down in the cold.

On a side note, it was also this ride that I was suffering the worst I ever have with cold feet. I have had problems with cold feet when riding for ages but it was really bad that time. A patch of flesh on my big toe turned yellow and fell off some days later. Doc said it was frostnip most likely caused by the constant freezing (descending into the freezing fog) and thawing (hike-a-bike). :???:

Thanks for the replies all.
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by lune ranger »

As i’ve been prodded by Shaf to give an answer I will.
It’s a little less complicated than his answer but much the same in spirit...
Night before = sleep as usual, up as usual. I then have an hour or two of sleep after lunch. This usually does the trick.
I do love an afternoon nap!
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by sean_iow »

composite wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:02 pm On a side note, it was also this ride that I was suffering the worst I ever have with cold feet. I have had problems with cold feet when riding for ages but it was really bad that time.
I get really cold feet as well. On the Dales Divide on the first night my feet were numb by 10pm and I didn't get the feeling back in them until 10am the next day. They didn't even warm up in my bag overnight but that wasn't helped by the fact I'd taken my down booties out of my kit to save weight... all 40g :roll:

The next night as it started to get cold I put my waterproof trousers on (Alpkit so very lightweight) and my feet stayed warm :smile: I think on the first night the exposed skin between where my knee warmers stopped and my socks started was loosing all the heat from the blood before to could get to my feet? I guess the trousers might also have been keeping my legs warmer generally as well which helps.

I used the same trick on the B150 and my feet stayed warm riding through the night and I was using the same shoes/socks as I did in the Dales. When I got back to my tent as 5:30am there was a layer of ice on it so it had been cold overnight. I should look into something to just cover the bottom of my legs to keep the wind off or make a pair of windproof gaiters :smile: Or get longer socks or full length leg warmers which might be easier :roll:
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composite
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by composite »

sean_iow wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:21 am The next night as it started to get cold I put my waterproof trousers on (Alpkit so very lightweight) and my feet stayed warm :smile: I think on the first night the exposed skin between where my knee warmers stopped and my socks started was loosing all the heat from the blood before to could get to my feet? I guess the trousers might also have been keeping my legs warmer generally as well which helps.
On the night in question that I described above, I was in 3/4 bibs with waterproof shorts over the top. I think what you described about the exposed skin could have happened to me. Looking at some zip off waterproof trousers to give me some options.
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by Bumpy Jonas »

A I hour kip in a bus shelter might be the answer so I have heard. :grin: I used to get really cold feet as well. Changed to flat pedals and sensible footwear stopped it on long rides for me with no loss of time which was slow anyway.
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Re: Riding through the night

Post by composite »

Bumpy Jonas wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:21 am A I hour kip in a bus shelter might be the answer so I have heard. :grin: I used to get really cold feet as well. Changed to flat pedals and sensible footwear stopped it on long rides for me with no loss of time which was slow anyway.
The old Audax hotel is always an option. I'd be very surprised if I feel the need to stop to sleep though. In my mind I see myself as being able to do up to a 400 without sleeping, I'm sure 600's will be different though. There is a 500 I'm looking at in December and that one is very unclear in my head if I would need sleep or not.
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