Are gravel bikes ....

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Bearbonesnorm
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Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

... changing the face of bikepacking?

This isn't a veiled judgement, it's simply that while speaking to someone today, they said that they'd visited a few bike shops to inquire about buying a bike to use for bikepacking. Now, we all know that you can carry just about any bike but some do lend themselves to being lifted over locked gates and high fences better than others. However, I was a little surprised when he said that every shop had shown him drop barred gravel bikes and nothing else ... no hardtails, no rigids and nothing plus.

Obviously, that got me thinking and I did think, are gravel bikes changing the face of bikepacking? If so, does that mean that the industry rather than the riders are now steering the direction or at least altering the perception of those on the outside looking in?
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Lazarus
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Lazarus »

Does it not just depend on the shop?I only go in Merlin as it is my LBS and they certainly have drifted towards road and gravel but the knowledgable staff would probably mention both depending on the answers given.

Gravel/adventure bikes are everywhere because they have two markets
Firstly they have roadies wanting to try off road and secondly they have MTB ers who want to try road. [and our roads are sub standard so better for commuting too]

The industry always forces you to upgrade and decides -if you cannot get straight steerer nice 26 er forks then you will have to upgrade one day.
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fatbikephil
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by fatbikephil »

Is it a function of most people wanting to go off road for bikepacking trips but not do anything too rad which makes a gravel bike a better bet? Or that most folk in this country live in the South (proportionally) and they can't do long distances without lots of road riding so a gravel bike is better.

Or it could be marketing hype. I mean you don't want people sing the bike they have for a new niche you want them to buy another one.

+bikes seem to be the peoples bikepacking choice in the States as far as I can tell
Asposium
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Asposium »

As a mountain biker from a child, and a reluctant roadie I thought that gravel bikes were a load marketing BS
However, was so impressed with the first sequoia I bought a second

There are two ways of viewing the compromise a gravel bike presents; they are either rubbish off-road as not a mountain bike and rubbish on road as not a road bike, or the best midway compromise between the two.
As someone relatively new to bikepacking (at least by the bikepacking name) it is surprising how many run rigid.
As a road bike the riding position is very comfortable; certainly compared with my road bike.
Does okay off-road. Would be nice is could get 29x2 ish inch tyres.

Look at them another way.
As mountain bikes have become more “beastie” (can’t think of a better word) a gap has become present in the market, gravel bikes start to fill that gap.
Reminds me of my first mountain bikes; simple, and one had to pick lines.

Don’t like how the industry is pushing fashion over function with 1x. Most gravel bikes can take a front mech (there are a few exceptions) do fit a damn double chainset.
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voodoo_simon
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by voodoo_simon »

Work in a bike shop so here's my two pennies worth...

If someone asks for a gravel bike, drop bar bike thingy will be shown and questions will then be asked, who what why etc etc and perhaps other bikes will be shown.

If someone asks for an adventure bike, I'll ask what type of adventure and then the customer will point me to the grvavel/tour section and mutter something like 'obnoxious dick...' in my general direction.

Can't win :lol:

Personally it's something of the chicken and egg situation in terms of media vs customers.

Shoe on the other foot and the mountain bikers are a bit taken back when I explained I ride a rigid bike...
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BigdummySteve
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by BigdummySteve »

What surprises me is that bikes like the Fargo and cutthroat are not more popular. Most of the advantages of gravel bikes but still proper mountain bikes :-bd And you’re right, it’s that multi surface ability which is the draw, on the Spanish coast to coast it was perfect. For the HT550 perhaps not?

I like the idea of gravel bikes but limited funds and space means one bike, for me the Fargo fills more roles than a pure mtb (especially with The bouncy fork) for many people who are willing to sacrifice more of the off-road ability gravel bikes would work. And of course they are trendy at the moment.

Myself I’d just break one, I will however build another set of skinny wheels. 2” nanos fly in dry trails and the road, that said the mezcal’s I’ve recently fitted are super fast.
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Alpinum
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Alpinum »

I too need a gravel bike. All this tech stuff is taking its toll on my body and damaging the paint on my bike.

Just last week I went out on a tech ride and ontop of a mountain was met by young ibexes.
ImageImageImageImage
Awful and stupid stuff. I thought I was doing something wrong with this bikepacking thing for the last 15 years or so.
Happy to now know it's about what and where I ride.
Smooth tracks, pseudo mtb tyres and a dropbar. My body will be thankful for the lack of technical challenge.
Some just need long to realise things like that.

It's rarely the mass of users that define what gets developed...
Lazarus
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Lazarus »

Very good point that its because they lack technical skills :wink:
True though as i have to be very very careful about route sections with a roadie friend who enjoys camping - Yorkshire dales rather than Lakeland epics.
Also agree on the 1 x trend and would be useless on mine as my flat commute is all big ring and off road is all the small ring [ not used it off road for so long i am not even sure it still works !]
Not even sure there is any weight saving once massive cassettes are used - my 9 speed xtr is 260 ish grammes with a 32 rear iirc
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Escape Goat
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Escape Goat »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:22 pm However, I was a little surprised when he said that every shop had shown him drop barred gravel bikes and nothing else ... no hardtails, no rigids and nothing plus.
I think it's probably a lack of knowledge from staff in the shop. I'm new to this from November, but if I hear the lads talking about "touring" and "camping on bikes" they head straight to the gravel section as I'm the only one (well until recently) who "does those mad rides". I do however pipe up about a possible Surly custom build, or Trek 1120 etc.

If there was more shops or staff that understood bike packing and how a gravel bike actually rides fully loaded on terraint, then the help given may be different. I'm lucky enough to have gone from dirt jump bikes, to extreme long distance by road, mountain biking, downhill riding, xc, trail city and commuting that It's not ever just a road bike, mountain or gravel bike that gets offered, personally.
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Alpinum
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Alpinum »

Lazarus wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:17 pm Very good point that its because they lack technical skills :wink:
I'd also like to adress technically skilled riders, who think bikepacking is about covering distance, where as their biking was about fun on lovely single tracks. Of course going a distance easily is nice, but some really seem to struggle to see how their usual bike (day) trips can also be done in a multiday trip.
Probably it's got to do alot with reducing gear.
On gravel/road you can get away with lots of gear, the steeper the route, the less time spent seated, the more lots of gear becomes an issue.
I see/read about this regularly on routes like the Haute Route.

My guess is, next to the manufacturers trying to fill another niche, that transporting gear plays a big role, besides many others.
Others being the challenge of multiple days on tech ground, the type of routes with 5000 m vert gain in 100 km distance, lack of a warm shower and cold beers in the evening etc.
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Laurensdad
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Laurensdad »

From the bike shop perspective I would hope that bike choice is informed by where the prospective customer plans to ride and this is a question we always ask rather than a marketing led choice.
If its local to us then 29er is a good choice for the downs, IOW, Purbecks and New Forest in all seasons, gravel bikes can get a bit of a handful in the wet of winter on the SDW and chalk tracks that criss cross the island and Purbecks. To make an assumption will only lead to a poor riding experience and damage your shop/customer relationship.
With all of that tho your reliant upon shop staff riding locally and beyond as well as having some experience on all of the bike types Stu has mentioned....
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BigdummySteve
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by BigdummySteve »

I do agree that the industry is steering the market, the dangling mug adverts which are used to lure in punters bear little relation to the reality of bikepacking in this country. Can’t blame them really,they are in the business of selling bikes :lol:
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by lune ranger »

Lazarus wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:40 pm Does it not just depend on the shop?
The shop stock and staff knowledge are always key determinants here.
If you went into most bike shops and asked for a ‘touring’ bike in the past you were usually steered towards some kind of city commuter hybrid bike.
You are relying on the shop having a real bike choice and staff who know what they are talking about. Sadly in your average lbs both are lacking.
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Charliecres
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Charliecres »

Very few people will ever want to do the stuff that people on this forum enjoy but the idea of ‘bikepacking’ (road touring, staying in B&Bs, with the possibility of maybe heading onto some light gravel if the mood takes one) is trendy and appealing.

So, the label has been appropriated and dragged into the mainstream. Ho hum. The good styff’s still the good stuff.
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PaulB2
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by PaulB2 »

Most people just need a touring bike to go touring. Traditional touring bikes aren’t sexy so they get pointed to a gravel bike which is basically just a light tourer with big tyres
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

IMO, bike shops are there to sell bikes and they'll latch onto anything that will "create" some new sales. No bike shop ever is going to say to some punter coming in "nah, just sling a rucksac on and use your MTB, you don't need all this "bikepacking" branded bollox".

You see it on here with the question "what BP bike". The answer is, whichever one you've got that's working at the mo'! But it's endemic of people and bikes, a big part of it is "collecting" all the lovely gear. The truth is you need feck all other than a positive and enquiring attitude to just push the envelope of your life that little bit.
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psling
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by psling »

Obviously, that got me thinking and I did think, are gravel bikes changing the face of bikepacking? If so, does that mean that the industry rather than the riders are now steering the direction or at least altering the perception of those on the outside looking in?
My thoughts:

1/ We on here have an interest and are therefore much more aware of the whole 'bikepacking' thing than most cyclists and indeed the vast majority of non-cyclists.
2/ We on here drop into several sub-genres of 'bikepacking' - from pootling hobo to ultra-distance ITT racer and everything between!

The above points suggest to me that what we regard as a 'bikepacking bike' tends to be much more specific than the average guy on a bike and, in my experience and especially reading a lot of the responses on 'what bike / what kit / what whatever' threads on here there is no particular type of bike that fits all and adapting / changing manufacturer's spec seems to be a necessary part of the journey.

Gravel Bikes have in my opinion gained a fast-growing attraction amongst, primarily, road-riding cyclists and 23mm-hating ex-MTBers because of the state of roads in this country. A disc-braked drop bar bike with 28mm or even 35mm tyres is ideal for most road-riders that aren't trying to be strava gods. We, of course, want to put bigger tyres in to do the off-road stuff and therefore try to adapt what the marketing guys chasing dollar offer to the mainstream market.
Gravel Bikes also seem to be the darling of Vlog and Insta-Ambassadors too at the moment so anybody inspired into seeking their own glossy micro-adventure is all over them.

Personally I don't think Gravel Bikes are changing the face of bikepacking because 1/ bikepacking is still a niche (yes, really!) and 2/ most people buying a gravel bike to chase their micro-adventure will probably find them totally unsuitable for what we regard as bikepacking and after that one journey into the great outdoors will relegate them to the back of the garage / for sale ads / road use or quite probably credit card touring.

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PaulB2
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by PaulB2 »

Instagram is awash with #bikepacking tagged images but the first 20 (that actually had bikes in) all either featured panniers or drop bars and most had both. The majority of people appear to use the term bikepacking to just be synonymous with touring.
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by ScotRoutes »

PaulB2 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:20 am Instagram is awash with #bikepacking tagged images but the first 20 (that actually had bikes in) all either featured panniers or drop bars and most had both. The majority of people appear to use the term bikepacking to just be synonymous with touring.
I was about to make the same comment.

Touring and hybrid bikes have had a stealthy resurrection under the guise of bikepacking. Most folk aren't hung up on trying to differentiate the two terms.

It's rather like when I used to go backpacking. To me, it was about exploring the mountains with lightweight gear. To many others it was jetting off to Australia with a huge rucksack and staying in city hostels.
ton
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by ton »

what you need to do is go in the shop and throw em a curve ball like I do.

' hello sir, how can I help you today'
' hello mate, I am looking for a bike that is capable of offroad touring'
' sorry sir, we only sell mountain bikes'

:lol: :lol:
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Jurassic
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Jurassic »

I've just built up a gravel bike (to replace a Boardman CX Team that I've never really been happy with) with the idea of it being a sturdy year round road bike that might have a bit of offroad ability as a side benefit. Having ridden it a little bit I have to say so far it's exceeded my expectations and is far more capable offroad than I'd expected. I now find myself looking at new routes on the map comprised of non technical offroad (mostly forest roads) and quiet backroads for future "gravel bikepacking" trips that I wouldn't have bothered with on any of my mountain bikes. I'm quite excited at the prospect of doing this type of ride as well as the stuff I've been doing previously. It still gets you out in the hills and countryside, you can still sleep under a hedge and it may open up new possibilities for trips so for me it's a good thing. Gravel bikes may well be a bike industry inspired marketing fad that will die out but as someone who rode out the fat bike craze and still rides and enjoys my fatty now that it's no longer trendy I'm not sure it really matters as long as I still love riding the thing. It's just a bike at the end of the day, put some bags on and it's a bikepacking bike. :-bd
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Solo »

I think maybe because 'gravel' covers so many things a gravel bike is good option to stock too.

Reading this review:
https://advntr.cc/cipollini-mcm-allroad/
Just the opening bit about how gravel can appeal in different ways etc.

I am thinking like an early 90s MTB that did 'everything' as in you'd commute all week in it thrn race XC and DH at the weekend.

The gravel bike seems to have killed off the general / non-race XC HT in the shops I visit.
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Jurassic
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Jurassic »

Solo wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:25 am I am thinking like an early 90s MTB that did 'everything' as in you'd commute all week in it thrn race XC and DH at the weekend.

The gravel bike seems to have killed off the general / non-race XC HT in the shops I visit.
One of the things that has struck me as a new gravel bike owner is that (with my bike at least) there's far more overlap with something like a fully rigid, skinny knobbly, narrow bar, long stem type mountain bike like we used to ride back in the early nineties than I expected. Riding fast forest road descents is exhilarating/terrifying like it used to be on those old mountain bikes and there's something quite attractive about that. You can ride terrain like that faster without giving it a thought on a modern, slack, wide barred mountain bike with big volume tyres but it makes that type of thing fun again rather than something that you have to endure en route to a more gnarly section of singletrack. I'm really enjoying that fact as it's opened my mind to routes that I wouldn't entertain on my mountain bikes.
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benp1
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by benp1 »

The funny thing is that when I look at the bikes lot of us rides, clearly biased to those folks who I have ridden with more, there's a bias towards rigid MTBs or MTBs that don't conform to the latest LLS trend

The bikepacking type riding on this forum is a range between off road proper and quiet lanes. Gravel bikes are like versions of those bikes if you were to remove the off road proper from that end of the scale. Good at relaxed off road riding and lanes/roads. If you're coming from a road background or just like cycling, that sort of riding is probably quite appealing. The off road proper involves an element of skill and practise that takes time to build, and is probably less accessible day to day. A bit like rambling vs proper big hill/mountain walking

I wonder if a hybrid would work just as well as a gravel bike
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Jurassic
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Re: Are gravel bikes ....

Post by Jurassic »

benp1 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:14 pm I wonder if a hybrid would work just as well as a gravel bike
I think in many cases it would do. I'd never really considered that but I think referring to a gravel bike as a drop bar hybrid would be quite an accurate description in many cases.
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